Guidance to local law enforcement?

[sardak]

BTW, the news article I read which prompted this was about seven days old, not seven years.

The link in your first post of this thread goes directly to an article dated January 22, 2004.

The CAPabilities booklet and a PowerPoint briefing are at: http://www.capmembers.com/emergency_services/capabilities-handbooks--briefing/
Those will tell you that we have 60,000 members, 11,000 radios and 550 Cessnas. Not information you want to give to the local authorities. You need to tailor a presentation to your location. We just had a discussion about it here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=14800.msg266859#msg266859  which takes you right to Pylon's message that discusses the need to discuss your local capabilities.

This link will take you to resources by Wing and/or Region: https://ntc.cap.af.mil/ops/hls/resources.cfm  These resource lists are partially fed directly from WMIRS and eServices, but also rely on manual input by the wings. Take the data with a large grain of salt.

Down at the squadron level, a part time ESO probably doesn't know all the ins and outs of how national operations runs.

Which is why you need to work with the Group and Wing ESOs to find out what is going on before going to the local agencies. The local LEs in your squadron are good resources. They can work on finding out how the nearby jurisdictions operate.

Just because the surrounding jurisdictions are smaller and more rural doesn't mean that they don't know what they're doing. I would go slowly with this and forget the one incident that you're hung up on. The world might not be as bad as you think.

Mike

[bflynn]

Hmmmm....so I posted the wrong article.  It happened eight years ago and it happened again this year.

I can't find the recent article I read that prompted this.

[Private Investigator]

There is also a difference between a plane down and a missing plane in terms of general CAP involvement.  But, it wouldn't hurt for national to come up with 1-page flyer with a quick list of actions that local police and fire should take regarding notifications after an airplane crashes.  Most crashes occur at or very near airports and are reported to the local authorities and have no need of CAP involvement, but I think we're in the right place to help these agencies understand what they should do when it happens.

+1

1 page flyer is a great ideal. I am a retired cop and most cops do not want anyone's guidance. Cops actually do not want advice from other cops.   

[754837]

I am a career law enforcement officer -w- 30 years of service.  I have been to a handful of airplane crashes (5 or 6) and CAP had no role.  In my state, the state troopers are responsible for the response and initial investigation.  They work with NTSB and the FAA. 

[Eclipse]

I am a career law enforcement officer -w- 30 years of service.  I have been to a handful of airplane crashes (5 or 6) and CAP had no role.  In my state, the state troopers are responsible for the response and initial investigation.  They work with NTSB and the FAA.

For clarity, CAP doesn't have a role in those case.  Our mission is looking and pointing.  Once the aircraft has been found LEA's are responsible for the site until it is turned over to the crash investigators, etc.

In some cases, especially where the local LEA is short-handed, we are allowed to assist in site surveillance, but that's where our role ends.  Some of it is because of Posse Comitatus, and some of it is because of out internal rules.

For crashes in urban areas or where no search is involved, it is rare we would be involved.  The OP's suggestion was providing information on who to call in the event of a crash, and at the same time fostering a relationship that may not exist.

We get calls all the time from local LEAs who have never had to deal with a crash site and know that, at a minimum, we have the right phone numbers.

[754837]

Understood.

I know this is beyond the scope of the post but I believe that CAP's best role today is the Cadet Program.  It is simply outstanding.  The Emergency Services mission, in my opinion, has declined significantly since I was a cadet in the 70's. 

[bflynn]

Actually, the scope of the post was originally a question at how CAP could help local law enforcement or 911 centers.  I've seen it reported multiple times where a family member will call the police (because they don't know who else to call) and it's 2 days before CAP is alerted to search.

There was a case here last year where an airplane landing at night clipped trees and landed in the water with just the tail sticking out.  The family called police to report the airplane overdue within about an hour.  But the police unit they talked to admitted they didn't know what to do with a missing flight call.  It wasn't until the next afternoon that a MTP ferrying an airplane nearby picked up the ELT and tracked it back to find the airplane in the river.

The plane crashed, the family called for help and nobody went to look. 

In that case, the pilot certainly drowned if he didn't die on impact.  But what if he didn't?  I can't imagine being trapped and dying in an airplane and knowing how often CAP never gets the word to go search because someone doesn't know how to route the problem for several days.

[Flying Pig]

Actually, the scope of the post was originally a question at how CAP could help local law enforcement or 911 centers.  I've seen it reported multiple times where a family member will call the police (because they don't know who else to call) and it's 2 days before CAP is alerted to search.

There was a case here last year where an airplane landing at night clipped trees and landed in the water with just the tail sticking out.  The family called police to report the airplane overdue within about an hour.  But the police unit they talked to admitted they didn't know what to do with a missing flight call.  It wasn't until the next afternoon that a MTP ferrying an airplane nearby picked up the ELT and tracked it back to find the airplane in the river.

The plane crashed, the family called for help and nobody went to look. 

In that case, the pilot certainly drowned if he didn't die on impact.  But what if he didn't?  I can't imagine being trapped and dying in an airplane and knowing how often CAP never gets the word to go search because someone doesn't know how to route the problem for several days.

Hmmmm.....Im trying to figure out how to add to this without getting myself in trouble in my day job   Youd be surprised how many times LE has received calls about a missing airplane and all LE does is put out a BOL "Be on the look out" for an overdue airplane.  I know of 2 such incidents where I was sitting in my patrol car, a message pops up on my computer screen that simply says "Ann Smith contacted the Sheriff at 2130hrs to report her husband is two hours overdue.  Husband was flying from Oregon to (insert local airport name).  Any information contact Ann Smith."  Most Deputies dont even know how to get onto the airport to even see if its there and the response is "How the heck am I supposed to find an airplane somewhere between OR and CA?   And then the Deputy is on to a Domestic Violence never to think about the airplane message again. 

In those two occasions, also being a CAP member, I called the CAP group commander, let him know, and a search started. Interestingly enough, both of those alerts were not even associated with my county.  LE passed the message down the state via "BOL" messages to people who were concerned but could only say "Hmm, OK, Im in a patrol car and I dont know how to search for a plane."  In those cases, both planes had diverted because of weather and the pilots never called anyone to let them know.  But they could have been impaled into a hillside just the same. 

Something like a one page pamphlet.  In CA it could be sent to CAL EMA that describes what to do.  CAL EMA could then send it state wide for dissemination.  It would come to the agencies via email with a CAL EMA address.  The email could be sent to the training managers and sent out to the agency as a whole as a Roll Call Training Bulletin.  Cops could print it out and have it.  Granted some would just click delete.  But most would take a look.  Even if it does no more than 5 yrs from now, some cop who gets that missing person call just pauses for a second and says "Wait.....I dont remember who, but isnt there is some Air Force thingy Im supposed to call?"

[MSgt Van]

Here's the card I mentioned.

[Private Investigator]

Here's the card I mentioned.

Now that is handy. Thanks for sharing.

[RADIOMAN015]

Actually, the scope of the post was originally a question at how CAP could help local law enforcement or 911 centers.  I've seen it reported multiple times where a family member will call the police (because they don't know who else to call) and it's 2 days before CAP is alerted to search.

There was a case here last year where an airplane landing at night clipped trees and landed in the water with just the tail sticking out.  The family called police to report the airplane overdue within about an hour.  But the police unit they talked to admitted they didn't know what to do with a missing flight call.  It wasn't until the next afternoon that a MTP ferrying an airplane nearby picked up the ELT and tracked it back to find the airplane in the river.

The plane crashed, the family called for help and nobody went to look. 

In that case, the pilot certainly drowned if he didn't die on impact.  But what if he didn't?  I can't imagine being trapped and dying in an airplane and knowing how often CAP never gets the word to go search because someone doesn't know how to route the problem for several days.

Hmmmm.....Im trying to figure out how to add to this without getting myself in trouble in my day job   Youd be surprised how many times LE has received calls about a missing airplane and all LE does is put out a BOL "Be on the look out" for an overdue airplane.  I know of 2 such incidents where I was sitting in my patrol car, a message pops up on my computer screen that simply says "Ann Smith contacted the Sheriff at 2130hrs to report her husband is two hours overdue.  Husband was flying from Oregon to (insert local airport name).  Any information contact Ann Smith."  Most Deputies dont even know how to get onto the airport to even see if its there and the response is "How the heck am I supposed to find an airplane somewhere between OR and CA?   And then the Deputy is on to a Domestic Violence never to think about the airplane message again. 

In those two occasions, also being a CAP member, I called the CAP group commander, let him know, and a search started. Interestingly enough, both of those alerts were not even associated with my county.  LE passed the message down the state via "BOL" messages to people who were concerned but could only say "Hmm, OK, Im in a patrol car and I dont know how to search for a plane."  In those cases, both planes had diverted because of weather and the pilots never called anyone to let them know.  But they could have been impaled into a hillside just the same. 

Something like a one page pamphlet.  In CA it could be sent to CAL EMA that describes what to do.  CAL EMA could then send it state wide for dissemination.  It would come to the agencies via email with a CAL EMA address.  The email could be sent to the training managers and sent out to the agency as a whole as a Roll Call Training Bulletin.  Cops could print it out and have it.  Granted some would just click delete.  But most would take a look.  Even if it does no more than 5 yrs from now, some cop who gets that missing person call just pauses for a second and says "Wait.....I dont remember who, but isnt there is some Air Force thingy Im supposed to call?"

I think AFRCC and the various ARTCC's now do the ramp checks via telephone to the various FBO's and/or airport owners.  I know when visiting a small municipal airport awhile back talking with the assistant airport manager, he got a call from the ARTCC asking if a specific plane had landed there, since the flight plan had not been closed out (it had and was taking back off, so he called the aircraft on the unicom frequency and advised them to contact ARTCC after take off) and also advised ARTCC that the plane was just taking off.

Ramp checks are difficult to do at some airports now because of locked security gates/fences so you have to contact someone who may have to escort you in.

Of course everyone is very concerned with costs/cost avoidance now, and even the AF is not likely to start a mission until those telephone ramp checks are completed.  So it probably adds 2 hours to the initial alert time to CAP.  Then with CAP it's going to be another 1 to 2 hours, so you are looking anywhere from 2 to 4 hours before any aircraft is in the air (and if it's night time with no ELT, than that adds to search ineffectiveness).  IF there's a crash there's likely serious trauma involved, and once the "golden" hour has gone by, there's a higher percentage of this being a recovery rather than a rescue.

Also one has to differentiate about a call to 911 that reports a potential aircraft crash.  That is NOT a CAP response responsibility.   It is up to the appropriate jurisdiction to have an appropriate procedure.     CAP is not a first responder organization and I would guess the legal folks at National would want this emphasized.  Now that's not to say that if a 911 call is received that CAP can't be alerted to perform a secondary search IF nothing turns up initially, but again this could be problematic for CAP, especially if it's in the night time.

BTW in our state every state police vehicle (and also the air wing's helicopters) has a scanner/receiver that allows them to listen to the local PD's in their patrol/response area, there's nothing to say that 121.5 mhz couldn't be programmed into the scanner to listen for ELT signals.

As far as letting law enforcement, fire/rescue, & ems know about CAP and our resources, National Hq or Regions, or wings could start with National, Regional, & Local organizations that focus on public safety.   One that comes to mind is: 
The Association of Public-Safety Communications Officials (APCO).  Generally there's also police & fire chief associations in each state.  Even some states have public safety dispatchers associations.  Additionally many state Emergency Management Agencies have monthly meetings in their various regions within the state for the local community EM directors to attend.   So there's plenty of ways to get the word out about what CAP is and what we are NOT.   I would think that CAP would want a consistent approach/information throughout the US.

RM

       

[bflynn]

Also one has to differentiate about a call to 911 that reports a potential aircraft crash. 

Well, one has to decide the circumstance about whether or not the call really belonged in a 911 queue in the first place.  There is a difference between "my party didn't arrive on schedule" and "I saw and heard an airplane crash behind my house."  One should be reported (to CAP?, to AFRCC?) and the other should be responded to.

What I see happening often is that the first is handled as a non-emergency and despite being reported, does not get acted on.

And just wondering if what I'm asking is how AFRCC / CAP should be incorporated as an element in the 911 non-emergency response.  Although we are not first responders, we could be considered secondary responders.

[RADIOMAN015]

Also one has to differentiate about a call to 911 that reports a potential aircraft crash. 

Well, one has to decide the circumstance about whether or not the call really belonged in a 911 queue in the first place.  There is a difference between "my party didn't arrive on schedule" and "I saw and heard an airplane crash behind my house."  One should be reported (to CAP?, to AFRCC?) and the other should be responded to.

What I see happening often is that the first is handled as a non-emergency and despite being reported, does not get acted on.

And just wondering if what I'm asking is how AFRCC / CAP should be incorporated as an element in the 911 non-emergency response.  Although we are not first responders, we could be considered secondary responders.

My educated guess would be the Duty Watch Officer at the FAA regional Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC) should be the agency notified first by the 911 Dispatch Center.   

Information on AFRCC can be found at:
http://www.1af.acc.af.mil/units/afrcc/ 

The fact sheet here:
http://www.acc.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=3721
Seems to indicate that the FAA is normally the agency first contacted by local civilians and there's a set procedure once the FAA is called including getting AFRCC involved.

This seems to me to be a good short notice item that could be placed in any public safety news letter.
RM

[sardak]

Here is how the FAA orders say the process is supposed to work:

FAA JO 7110.65 Air Traffic Control
Chapter 10 Emergencies
Section 3 Overdue Aircraft
10-3-1 a. Consider an aircraft to be overdue, initiate the procedures stated in this section and issue an ALNOT when neither communications nor radar contact can be established and 30 minutes have passed since...
Note: The procedures in this section also apply to an aircraft referred to as "missing" or "unreported."
10-3-2 Terminal facilities that receive reports are to forward the information to the ARTCC.
10-3-3 ARTCC forwards all information that it receives directly or from a terminal facility to the Rescue Coordination Center.

Note: Flight service stations (FSS) serve as the central points for collecting and disseminating information on an overdue or missing aircraft which is not on an IFR flight plan. ATC facilities that receive telephone calls or other inquiries regarding these flights must refer these calls and inquiries to the appropriate FSS.

FAA JO 7110.10 Flight Services
Chapter 8 is titled "Search and Rescue (SAR) Services for VFR Aircraft," is 9 pages long and explains the procedures including QALQs, INREQs and ALNOTs.

Since we're on the topic of FAA and SAR, here is what the two orders say about ELT reports.

JO 7110.65 ATC
10-2-10 Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) Signals
When an ELT signal is heard or reported:
a. Enroute (ARTCC)  notifies the Rescue Coordination Center.
b. Terminal facilities notify the ARTCC.

JO 7110.10 Flight Services
Chapter 5 Emergency Services
5-1-2 c. The ARTCC is responsible for consolidation of all pertinent ELT signal information. Notify the ARTCC of all heard or reported ELT signals.
5-2-8 Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) Signals
When an ELT signal is heard or reported:
a. Notify the ARTCC, who will coordinate with the Rescue Coordination Center (RCC).

Mike