Guidance to local law enforcement?

Started by bflynn, March 07, 2012, 03:24:59 PM

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bflynn

I saw this news article on the AOPA board -

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?p=all&tc=pgall&AID=/20040122/NEWS/401220307/1001/NEWS0105

Summary of the idea that I wanted to point out - local law enforcement doesn't know how to handle a report of an airplane down.

Can CAP provide guidance?  It could be as simple as a flyer that says "call AFRCC" and provide the information needed.  Or it could be an entire campaign to educate law enforcement and 911 centers at all levels how to handle down aircraft calls.

End result is that more airplanes get searched for, more airplanes get found and more lives get saved.

How do we raise this to the National level?

Thoughts?

Eclipse

Quote from: bflynn on March 07, 2012, 03:24:59 PM
How do we raise this to the National level?

We don't.

This is a local problem with a local solution and an existing mandate.  ESO's at all levels are supposed to be making contacts
with agencies in their AOR and scope.  It's one of their primary functions.

"That Others May Zoom"

bflynn

Yes, but do local ESOs have the resouces to do this consistently?  Wouldn't a national standard message be more consistent and carry more authority with 911 centers?

Additionally, I'd estimate there are 20+ different ESOs in NC alone.  Times 50, there are probably 1000 different ESOs at all levels.  If you ask each of them how to do this, you'd get 1500 different versions of how to do this.

Assuming I wanted to raise the visibility on this, what would be the appropriate method?

Major Lord

1 (900) LOS-TPLANE? $3.99 per minute....

Major Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

Eclipse

#4
Quote from: bflynn on March 07, 2012, 03:46:31 PM
Yes, but do local ESOs have the resouces to do this consistently?

Do they, probably not.  Should they?  Yes.  Remember the "more people" discussions?

Quote from: bflynn on March 07, 2012, 03:46:31 PM
Additionally, I'd estimate there are 20+ different ESOs in NC alone.  Times 50, there are probably 1000 different ESOs at all levels.  If you ask each of them how to do this, you'd get 1500 different versions of how to do this.

Assuming I wanted to raise the visibility on this, what would be the appropriate method?

A national message will go on the pile next to all the other "national messages" and be ignored. A handshake meeting locally is the way to go.
Every ESO has a specific scope, and the process for handling a missing aircraft is already standardized, as is the process for requesting assistance
from the NOC for other emergencies.

A 1-pager from NHQ that could be customized with local letterhead would be fine, but the conversation should be handled locally.

"That Others May Zoom"

bflynn

Quote from: Eclipse on March 07, 2012, 04:04:02 PM
Quote from: bflynn on March 07, 2012, 03:46:31 PM
Yes, but do local ESOs have the resouces to do this consistently?

Do they, probably not.  Should they?  Yes.  Remeber the "more people" discussions.

I'm not sure what the "more people" discussions are, if you check my post count this is #3 and they're all in this thread.  Although I've been a CAP member for a few years, this is my first time being here. 

I agree that local person to person contact is far more effective.  But what I'm also seeing is that when you compare a 911 center manager who runs a 100 person department with a squadron ESO officer or even a wing ESO officer, there is an authority inbalance.  Having national organization backing is nice.

I think I figured out my answer.  And I'm a little dismayed at the amount of negativity...

Eclipse

Quote from: bflynn on March 07, 2012, 04:14:04 PMI agree that local person to person contact is far more effective.  But what I'm also seeing is that when you compare a 911 center manager who runs a 100 person department with a squadron ESO officer or even a wing ESO officer, there is an authority inbalance.  Having national organization backing is nice.

Authority imbalance?  Information is information.

Your contact would likely not be the manager of a call center anyway, it would a staff member of the PD, FD, etc.

"That Others May Zoom"

Major Lord

Just tread lightly  my friend, you don't want CAP looking like we are trying to usurp the power of the Sheriff with our heavy-handed, federal, god-like authority. Unless you want to be Persona Non Grata for a dozen years until the Sheriff dies and someone remembers those guys with the free airplane service. The Chief LEO of a venue can be presumed to have knowledge of the Incident Command Structure, and have the appropriate liaison personnel. Of course, this is a rebutabble presumption. Some townships are about 6 acres, and might only have a Constable or a watchdog, but they are the authority in their domain, and will be nervous about CAP's presence and intentions if this is not left to those in CAP capable of making those contacts without shooting themselves in the feet, while wedging them in their mouth ( oh yes, you can do both simultaneously with sufficient practice!)

I think it would be awesome if we had canned multi-media presentation (NOT POWER POINT!, and  please god, don't get that O'Grady guy!) to present to locals on the mission capabilities of CAP,and a few "presentable presenters" ( not stuttering blue sausages covered in facial moss) trained to deliver the briefing and answer questions. Offering this to LE, EMS, etc in safe venues like conferences could lead to some real working relationships, frequency use MOU's, recruitment, and of course, weaseling out of traffic tickets.

Major Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

RiverAux

There is also a difference between a plane down and a missing plane in terms of general CAP involvement.  But, it wouldn't hurt for national to come up with 1-page flyer with a quick list of actions that local police and fire should take regarding notifications after an airplane crashes.  Most crashes occur at or very near airports and are reported to the local authorities and have no need of CAP involvement, but I think we're in the right place to help these agencies understand what they should do when it happens. 

sardak

QuoteSummary of the idea that I wanted to point out - local law enforcement doesn't know how to handle a report of an airplane down.
You read one 7 year old article about one plane crash in one jurisdiction and you've made a blanket statement against thousands of law enforcement agencies. Now you want to start a national campaign based on this and are upset about the negative responses.

How many times have you heard about an LE agency being accused of not responding quickly enough to reports of missing persons, stolen cars, bank robberies, shootings , etc., etc., etc.? It happens every day and these other events happen more frequently than plane crashes.

AFRCC has an MOU with each of the 48 states in its AOR (Hawaii and Alaska are excluded). Each MOU addresses how ELTs, PLBs, Missing Aircraft, Missing Persons and other items are handled between AFRCC and the state.

At one time AFRCC was pushing for all states to operate SAR alerting the same, which failed because 48 states said nope. A little problem with constitutions and laws getting in the way. There are 3000+ counties or county equivalents in the US (including AK and HI) and it's a good bet that all have multiple jurisdictions within them. The process for handling missing aircraft reports is going to vary between all of them.

AFRCC now uses the motto "Once you've seen how one state works, you've seen how one state works" and that's the way it should be. In other words, AFRCC has no authority to tell local governments how to do their jobs, including response to missing aircraft. Neither does CAP.

CAP NHQ makes a presentation every year at the national state SAR coordinators meeting which is hosted by AFRCC. NHQ tells the coordinators what CAP does, but doesn't tell the coordinators how to do their jobs. Local units and wings can do the same.

Mike

bosshawk

Amen.

My county recently had a home-built, ultra-light make a one point landing in a remote field: both occupants walked away.  Strangely(to some), the Sheriff and the Fire Department responded appropriately and quickly.  CAP never even knew of the incident.  If it had, it would have taken anywhere from 2 hours to 2 days for CAP to have done anything about it.  The FAA was notified and they showed up the next day to look at the burned fabric and steel tubing.

Leave LE problems to LE.

Incidentally, my county has 18,000 residents and probably that many cows.  No incorporated towns or cities and a completely volunteerr fire department.  Oh, yes, we have Yosemite National Park taking up about one quarter of the county.
Paul M. Reed
Col, USA(ret)
Former CAP Lt Col
Wilson #2777

RiverAux

I think you're misunderstanding what was being proposed.  No one has said that we'd be telling them to call CAP or that CAP would even be involved.  And its great that CAP and AFRCC interact with the states, but that doesn't do anything for the very small towns or sheriffs that may never have dealt with an airplane crash at all. 

Letting them know who to contact after they discover a crash site isn't impinging on their authority in any way.  We're just educating them on something that we know a bit more about than they do.

After you've seen the local FD, SO, and PD roll a ton of units after they heard that CAP is looking for an ELT and they assumed that meant a plane had crashed, you get to understand that this really isn't their wheelhouse and a little educational effort on our part can go a long way.

lordmonar

Bottom line.

NHQ does provide a booklet for local ES agencies...it tells them about our capabilities and the number to the NOC.

Your local ES officer should make contact with the local police/fire department and county level ES manager....just to make that hand shake...here we are...and we are ready to help....sort of thing.

This in fact should be what a squadron level ES officer is supposed to be doing.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Eclipse

Quote from: lordmonar on March 07, 2012, 10:03:40 PM
This in fact should be what a squadron level ES officer is supposed to be doing.

Yep, or the Group one for EMA's and county-level stuff, and the Wing one for State-level agencies.

Our SD was also very good about doing the occasional road show as well, which was great because he's never going to commit
resources we don't have, or sell a mission we don't do.  Sadly, with the upcoming RIF, those days are probably behind us.

"That Others May Zoom"

MSgt Van

I had business cards made with the state duty officer's 1-800 number, and instructions how to request assistance from CAP. I passed them out to every police chief, cop, sheriff, county emergency services office that I came across. I put local squadron contact info on the reverse side. Cheap way to keep our info handy for them.

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

bosshawk

I didn't misunderstand what the OP said: he stated that the 911 center should be advised to call "AFRCC" and ask CAP for guidance on what else to do.

Both of those actions should come in the second or third layers of what to do.  First, call out the local SAR and Fire folks.  A call to a 911 center would likely include the location of the crash: at that point, there isn't a thing that CAP can do that is meaningful.  Once the scene is stabilized, call the NTSB and the FAA.

I agree that calling the NOC or AFRCC might come about if the aircraft is simply missiing: in fact, AFRCC comes after the NOC, after the FAA. 

My interpretation of what the OP said relates to CAP being called to do a search and possibly a rescue.

Enough said.
Paul M. Reed
Col, USA(ret)
Former CAP Lt Col
Wilson #2777

sardak

QuoteI think you're misunderstanding what was being proposed.
I'm with bosshawk that we do understand what was proposed and subsequent posts have modified the OP to explain what really needs to be done.

There are many LE and other agencies having jurisdiction who don't know what they're doing and many that do. The same holds true for CAP units.

It's not a problem that needs to be addressed at a national level. It may need to be addressed at the state level as well as the local levels. "Once you've been to one state..."

CAP can address the problem at the local level if they understand 1) the issues;  2) the solutions and 3) the approach that needs to be taken in explaining 1 and 2.  How CAP deals with these three points is where many of have concerns, learned from experience.

Mike

RiverAux

Sure it can use some national guidance in terms of putting together the right information for the local folks to utilize.  Its pretty clear to me that left to their own devices squadron and wings are not addressing this issue.  If they had some ready made materials to work with they might actually do it. 

bflynn

#19
Quote from: RiverAux on March 08, 2012, 12:55:04 AM
Sure it can use some national guidance in terms of putting together the right information for the local folks to utilize.  Its pretty clear to me that left to their own devices squadron and wings are not addressing this issue.  If they had some ready made materials to work with they might actually do it.

This was very close of my original thought.  I gave up the thread - but I stumbled back across it tonight and decided to post a followup. 

BTW, the news article I read which prompted this was about seven days old, not seven years.  It was on the purple or red boards, I don't remember which.  A farmer called 911 and said he'd seen an airplane crash near his house.  I think he looked, but didn't find anything.  17 hours later someone started searching and found the dead pilot and his passenger.  They claim they both died instantly in the crash, but the point is that it took so long to start looking.

Down at the squadron level, a part time ESO probably doesn't know all the ins and outs of how national operations runs.  They don't know what they can/should tell local LE.  We have county LE deputies in our squadron and I'm pretty sure our county 911 center knows how to handle things.  But then ours is a largish squadron in a largish county.  If I go to one of the neighboring counties, I'm not so confident.  If I go to one of the rural counties, I'm pretty sure there's at least one in our area that would be puzzled.  I'm a new member and assistant ESO, so I'm still learning...I know I don't know. 

So, take it for the idea it was meant to convey - how do we help pilots in trouble.  I learned that there is a national booklet already - did not know that before.  How do we get copies of that?  If I'm going to volunteer to make contact with some people, I'd like to have information already...

sardak

QuoteBTW, the news article I read which prompted this was about seven days old, not seven years.
The link in your first post of this thread goes directly to an article dated January 22, 2004.

The CAPabilities booklet and a PowerPoint briefing are at: http://www.capmembers.com/emergency_services/capabilities-handbooks--briefing/
Those will tell you that we have 60,000 members, 11,000 radios and 550 Cessnas. Not information you want to give to the local authorities. You need to tailor a presentation to your location. We just had a discussion about it here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=14800.msg266859#msg266859  which takes you right to Pylon's message that discusses the need to discuss your local capabilities.

This link will take you to resources by Wing and/or Region: https://ntc.cap.af.mil/ops/hls/resources.cfm  These resource lists are partially fed directly from WMIRS and eServices, but also rely on manual input by the wings. Take the data with a large grain of salt.

QuoteDown at the squadron level, a part time ESO probably doesn't know all the ins and outs of how national operations runs.
Which is why you need to work with the Group and Wing ESOs to find out what is going on before going to the local agencies. The local LEs in your squadron are good resources. They can work on finding out how the nearby jurisdictions operate.

Just because the surrounding jurisdictions are smaller and more rural doesn't mean that they don't know what they're doing. I would go slowly with this and forget the one incident that you're hung up on. The world might not be as bad as you think.

Mike

bflynn

Hmmmm....so I posted the wrong article.  It happened eight years ago and it happened again this year.

I can't find the recent article I read that prompted this.

Private Investigator

Quote from: RiverAux on March 07, 2012, 05:17:42 PM
There is also a difference between a plane down and a missing plane in terms of general CAP involvement.  But, it wouldn't hurt for national to come up with 1-page flyer with a quick list of actions that local police and fire should take regarding notifications after an airplane crashes.  Most crashes occur at or very near airports and are reported to the local authorities and have no need of CAP involvement, but I think we're in the right place to help these agencies understand what they should do when it happens.

+1

1 page flyer is a great ideal. I am a retired cop and most cops do not want anyone's guidance. Cops actually do not want advice from other cops.   :o

754837

I am a career law enforcement officer -w- 30 years of service.  I have been to a handful of airplane crashes (5 or 6) and CAP had no role.  In my state, the state troopers are responsible for the response and initial investigation.  They work with NTSB and the FAA. 

Eclipse

Quote from: 754837 on March 23, 2012, 01:35:27 AM
I am a career law enforcement officer -w- 30 years of service.  I have been to a handful of airplane crashes (5 or 6) and CAP had no role.  In my state, the state troopers are responsible for the response and initial investigation.  They work with NTSB and the FAA.

For clarity, CAP doesn't have a role in those case.  Our mission is looking and pointing.  Once the aircraft has been found LEA's are responsible for the site until it is turned over to the crash investigators, etc.

In some cases, especially where the local LEA is short-handed, we are allowed to assist in site surveillance, but that's where our role ends.  Some of it is because of Posse Comitatus, and some of it is because of out internal rules.

For crashes in urban areas or where no search is involved, it is rare we would be involved.  The OP's suggestion was providing information on who to call in the event of a crash, and at the same time fostering a relationship that may not exist.

We get calls all the time from local LEAs who have never had to deal with a crash site and know that, at a minimum, we have the right phone numbers.

"That Others May Zoom"

754837

Understood.

I know this is beyond the scope of the post but I believe that CAP's best role today is the Cadet Program.  It is simply outstanding.  The Emergency Services mission, in my opinion, has declined significantly since I was a cadet in the 70's. 

bflynn

Actually, the scope of the post was originally a question at how CAP could help local law enforcement or 911 centers.  I've seen it reported multiple times where a family member will call the police (because they don't know who else to call) and it's 2 days before CAP is alerted to search.

There was a case here last year where an airplane landing at night clipped trees and landed in the water with just the tail sticking out.  The family called police to report the airplane overdue within about an hour.  But the police unit they talked to admitted they didn't know what to do with a missing flight call.  It wasn't until the next afternoon that a MTP ferrying an airplane nearby picked up the ELT and tracked it back to find the airplane in the river.

The plane crashed, the family called for help and nobody went to look. 

In that case, the pilot certainly drowned if he didn't die on impact.  But what if he didn't?  I can't imagine being trapped and dying in an airplane and knowing how often CAP never gets the word to go search because someone doesn't know how to route the problem for several days.

Flying Pig

Quote from: bflynn on March 23, 2012, 03:33:41 AM
Actually, the scope of the post was originally a question at how CAP could help local law enforcement or 911 centers.  I've seen it reported multiple times where a family member will call the police (because they don't know who else to call) and it's 2 days before CAP is alerted to search.

There was a case here last year where an airplane landing at night clipped trees and landed in the water with just the tail sticking out.  The family called police to report the airplane overdue within about an hour.  But the police unit they talked to admitted they didn't know what to do with a missing flight call.  It wasn't until the next afternoon that a MTP ferrying an airplane nearby picked up the ELT and tracked it back to find the airplane in the river.

The plane crashed, the family called for help and nobody went to look. 

In that case, the pilot certainly drowned if he didn't die on impact.  But what if he didn't?  I can't imagine being trapped and dying in an airplane and knowing how often CAP never gets the word to go search because someone doesn't know how to route the problem for several days.

Hmmmm.....Im trying to figure out how to add to this without getting myself in trouble in my day job :o  Youd be surprised how many times LE has received calls about a missing airplane and all LE does is put out a BOL "Be on the look out" for an overdue airplane.  I know of 2 such incidents where I was sitting in my patrol car, a message pops up on my computer screen that simply says "Ann Smith contacted the Sheriff at 2130hrs to report her husband is two hours overdue.  Husband was flying from Oregon to (insert local airport name).  Any information contact Ann Smith."  Most Deputies dont even know how to get onto the airport to even see if its there and the response is "How the heck am I supposed to find an airplane somewhere between OR and CA?   And then the Deputy is on to a Domestic Violence never to think about the airplane message again. 

In those two occasions, also being a CAP member, I called the CAP group commander, let him know, and a search started. Interestingly enough, both of those alerts were not even associated with my county.  LE passed the message down the state via "BOL" messages to people who were concerned but could only say "Hmm, OK, Im in a patrol car and I dont know how to search for a plane."  In those cases, both planes had diverted because of weather and the pilots never called anyone to let them know.  But they could have been impaled into a hillside just the same. 

Something like a one page pamphlet.  In CA it could be sent to CAL EMA that describes what to do.  CAL EMA could then send it state wide for dissemination.  It would come to the agencies via email with a CAL EMA address.  The email could be sent to the training managers and sent out to the agency as a whole as a Roll Call Training Bulletin.  Cops could print it out and have it.  Granted some would just click delete.  But most would take a look.  Even if it does no more than 5 yrs from now, some cop who gets that missing person call just pauses for a second and says "Wait.....I dont remember who, but isnt there is some Air Force thingy Im supposed to call?"

MSgt Van

Here's the card I mentioned.

Private Investigator


RADIOMAN015

#30
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 23, 2012, 02:49:18 PM
Quote from: bflynn on March 23, 2012, 03:33:41 AM
Actually, the scope of the post was originally a question at how CAP could help local law enforcement or 911 centers.  I've seen it reported multiple times where a family member will call the police (because they don't know who else to call) and it's 2 days before CAP is alerted to search.

There was a case here last year where an airplane landing at night clipped trees and landed in the water with just the tail sticking out.  The family called police to report the airplane overdue within about an hour.  But the police unit they talked to admitted they didn't know what to do with a missing flight call.  It wasn't until the next afternoon that a MTP ferrying an airplane nearby picked up the ELT and tracked it back to find the airplane in the river.

The plane crashed, the family called for help and nobody went to look. 

In that case, the pilot certainly drowned if he didn't die on impact.  But what if he didn't?  I can't imagine being trapped and dying in an airplane and knowing how often CAP never gets the word to go search because someone doesn't know how to route the problem for several days.

Hmmmm.....Im trying to figure out how to add to this without getting myself in trouble in my day job :o  Youd be surprised how many times LE has received calls about a missing airplane and all LE does is put out a BOL "Be on the look out" for an overdue airplane.  I know of 2 such incidents where I was sitting in my patrol car, a message pops up on my computer screen that simply says "Ann Smith contacted the Sheriff at 2130hrs to report her husband is two hours overdue.  Husband was flying from Oregon to (insert local airport name).  Any information contact Ann Smith."  Most Deputies dont even know how to get onto the airport to even see if its there and the response is "How the heck am I supposed to find an airplane somewhere between OR and CA?   And then the Deputy is on to a Domestic Violence never to think about the airplane message again. 

In those two occasions, also being a CAP member, I called the CAP group commander, let him know, and a search started. Interestingly enough, both of those alerts were not even associated with my county.  LE passed the message down the state via "BOL" messages to people who were concerned but could only say "Hmm, OK, Im in a patrol car and I dont know how to search for a plane."  In those cases, both planes had diverted because of weather and the pilots never called anyone to let them know.  But they could have been impaled into a hillside just the same. 

Something like a one page pamphlet.  In CA it could be sent to CAL EMA that describes what to do.  CAL EMA could then send it state wide for dissemination.  It would come to the agencies via email with a CAL EMA address.  The email could be sent to the training managers and sent out to the agency as a whole as a Roll Call Training Bulletin.  Cops could print it out and have it.  Granted some would just click delete.  But most would take a look.  Even if it does no more than 5 yrs from now, some cop who gets that missing person call just pauses for a second and says "Wait.....I dont remember who, but isnt there is some Air Force thingy Im supposed to call?"
I think AFRCC and the various ARTCC's now do the ramp checks via telephone to the various FBO's and/or airport owners.  I know when visiting a small municipal airport awhile back talking with the assistant airport manager, he got a call from the ARTCC asking if a specific plane had landed there, since the flight plan had not been closed out (it had and was taking back off, so he called the aircraft on the unicom frequency and advised them to contact ARTCC after take off) and also advised ARTCC that the plane was just taking off.

Ramp checks are difficult to do at some airports now because of locked security gates/fences so you have to contact someone who may have to escort you in.

Of course everyone is very concerned with costs/cost avoidance now, and even the AF is not likely to start a mission until those telephone ramp checks are completed.  So it probably adds 2 hours to the initial alert time to CAP.  Then with CAP it's going to be another 1 to 2 hours, so you are looking anywhere from 2 to 4 hours before any aircraft is in the air (and if it's night time with no ELT, than that adds to search ineffectiveness).  IF there's a crash there's likely serious trauma involved, and once the "golden" hour has gone by, there's a higher percentage of this being a recovery rather than a rescue.

Also one has to differentiate about a call to 911 that reports a potential aircraft crash.  That is NOT a CAP response responsibility.   It is up to the appropriate jurisdiction to have an appropriate procedure.     CAP is not a first responder organization and I would guess the legal folks at National would want this emphasized.  Now that's not to say that if a 911 call is received that CAP can't be alerted to perform a secondary search IF nothing turns up initially, but again this could be problematic for CAP, especially if it's in the night time.

BTW in our state every state police vehicle (and also the air wing's helicopters) has a scanner/receiver that allows them to listen to the local PD's in their patrol/response area, there's nothing to say that 121.5 mhz couldn't be programmed into the scanner to listen for ELT signals.

As far as letting law enforcement, fire/rescue, & ems know about CAP and our resources, National Hq or Regions, or wings could start with National, Regional, & Local organizations that focus on public safety.   One that comes to mind is: 
The Association of Public-Safety Communications Officials (APCO).  Generally there's also police & fire chief associations in each state.  Even some states have public safety dispatchers associations.  Additionally many state Emergency Management Agencies have monthly meetings in their various regions within the state for the local community EM directors to attend.   So there's plenty of ways to get the word out about what CAP is and what we are NOT.   I would think that CAP would want a consistent approach/information throughout the US.

RM

       

bflynn

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on March 24, 2012, 07:24:07 PM
Also one has to differentiate about a call to 911 that reports a potential aircraft crash. 

Well, one has to decide the circumstance about whether or not the call really belonged in a 911 queue in the first place.  There is a difference between "my party didn't arrive on schedule" and "I saw and heard an airplane crash behind my house."  One should be reported (to CAP?, to AFRCC?) and the other should be responded to.

What I see happening often is that the first is handled as a non-emergency and despite being reported, does not get acted on.

And just wondering if what I'm asking is how AFRCC / CAP should be incorporated as an element in the 911 non-emergency response.  Although we are not first responders, we could be considered secondary responders.

RADIOMAN015

Quote from: bflynn on March 24, 2012, 09:43:55 PM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on March 24, 2012, 07:24:07 PM
Also one has to differentiate about a call to 911 that reports a potential aircraft crash. 

Well, one has to decide the circumstance about whether or not the call really belonged in a 911 queue in the first place.  There is a difference between "my party didn't arrive on schedule" and "I saw and heard an airplane crash behind my house."  One should be reported (to CAP?, to AFRCC?) and the other should be responded to.

What I see happening often is that the first is handled as a non-emergency and despite being reported, does not get acted on.

And just wondering if what I'm asking is how AFRCC / CAP should be incorporated as an element in the 911 non-emergency response.  Although we are not first responders, we could be considered secondary responders.

My educated guess would be the Duty Watch Officer at the FAA regional Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC) should be the agency notified first by the 911 Dispatch Center.   

Information on AFRCC can be found at:
http://www.1af.acc.af.mil/units/afrcc/ 

The fact sheet here:
http://www.acc.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=3721
Seems to indicate that the FAA is normally the agency first contacted by local civilians and there's a set procedure once the FAA is called including getting AFRCC involved.

This seems to me to be a good short notice item that could be placed in any public safety news letter.
RM

sardak

Here is how the FAA orders say the process is supposed to work:

FAA JO 7110.65 Air Traffic Control
Chapter 10 Emergencies
Section 3 Overdue Aircraft
10-3-1 a. Consider an aircraft to be overdue, initiate the procedures stated in this section and issue an ALNOT when neither communications nor radar contact can be established and 30 minutes have passed since...
Note: The procedures in this section also apply to an aircraft referred to as "missing" or "unreported."
10-3-2 Terminal facilities that receive reports are to forward the information to the ARTCC.
10-3-3 ARTCC forwards all information that it receives directly or from a terminal facility to the Rescue Coordination Center.

Note: Flight service stations (FSS) serve as the central points for collecting and disseminating information on an overdue or missing aircraft which is not on an IFR flight plan. ATC facilities that receive telephone calls or other inquiries regarding these flights must refer these calls and inquiries to the appropriate FSS.

FAA JO 7110.10 Flight Services
Chapter 8 is titled "Search and Rescue (SAR) Services for VFR Aircraft," is 9 pages long and explains the procedures including QALQs, INREQs and ALNOTs.

Since we're on the topic of FAA and SAR, here is what the two orders say about ELT reports.

JO 7110.65 ATC
10-2-10 Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) Signals
When an ELT signal is heard or reported:
a. Enroute (ARTCC)  notifies the Rescue Coordination Center.
b. Terminal facilities notify the ARTCC.

JO 7110.10 Flight Services
Chapter 5 Emergency Services
5-1-2 c. The ARTCC is responsible for consolidation of all pertinent ELT signal information. Notify the ARTCC of all heard or reported ELT signals.
5-2-8 Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) Signals
When an ELT signal is heard or reported:
a. Notify the ARTCC, who will coordinate with the Rescue Coordination Center (RCC).

Mike