eServices, WMIRS, etc?

[SunDog]

eServices is a poorly done application for a paid membership organization. I've seen train wrecks better organized. It's been a real turn-off for new members, with the obscure navigation, acronym rich environment, etc. WMIRS is marginally better, but unreliable and buggy.

A simple C17 sortie turns into multiple phone calls, web site hits, emails, and a general goat-rope to get off the ground and then wrap it up.  Looks like we're gonna be relying on eServices for tracking crew member currency now, and that should scare anyone.

What do you think of a one time "tax" ($20.00 maybe?) on senior members to pay a professional outfit to clean up the eService mess? Not much to be done about the delays and inconvenience from WMIRS, of course. But at some point the hassles are gonna hurt (maybe already have?) participation and/or flying hours.

[JC004]

I don't know about that.  I would love to see a comprehensive, well done portal as discussed here:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1450

It should be part of an overall web strategy that includes the public site, open member site, and password-protected areas.  It all needs to be tied into one cohesive, easy to use platform. 

We also need content management for units as part of our system.  This is a secret project that I am working on.

[Short Field]

Or just learn to use the software we have today. 

[heliodoc]

^^^^

Yep ...There still we those folks in the "IT" dept at NHQ that will a a reason to further jack with it under the guise of "improvements."

Time for one cohesive method and yes it takes shorter time collecting weather data for the day getting an FAA brief than it does running through the "eServices!"

[Spaceman3750]

I've used eServices for ops quals and I really don't mind it. The only annoying thing is that feature where the task jumps to the top of the screen when you focus it with the mouse, other than that I havn't had any problems.

YMMV, though.

[SunDog]

I was thinkning bigger picture, actually - we ALL learn the software; but the hassle factor in doing so is very high.

It is time consuming to deal with WMIRS, the Larry-Lightbulb fllight release process, and new members are faced with a crude, awkward eServices application.

I know of senior members and very qualified pilots that have just drifted away from CAP, and the hassle factor has been an important reason.

Member's trime is finite - if CAP spends it on two hours of mucking about with eServices and WMIRS,  that's two hours not available for worthy efforts. Or family.

[Short Field]

I know of senior members and very qualified pilots that have just drifted away from CAP, and the hassle factor has been an important reason.

The only ones I have seen leave over this are the ones that couldn't handle any technology - to include GPS, email, and getting the WX over the internet.  Actually, most had a problem even filling out the paper forms.

[Pylon]

I'd have to agree that eServices could be streamlined and improved vastly, but I don't see much of it happening in the near future.  I haven't heard any rumors of CAP IT at NHQ planning any major overhauls of anything.  Of course, the annual goals for NHQ aren't exactly communicated (if any are actually set) to the field either... so something major could be planned for release tomorrow and we'd likely not know.

[JC004]

I'd have to agree that eServices could be streamlined and improved vastly, but I don't see much of it happening in the near future.  I haven't heard any rumors of CAP IT at NHQ planning any major overhauls of anything.  Of course, the annual goals for NHQ aren't exactly communicated (if any are actually set) to the field either... so something major could be planned for release tomorrow and we'd likely not know.

annual...what?  Dude - you're crazy.  Go send me feedback on my little web site mock-up.  I want my new sites to be waaaaay more awesomer than the CAP sites.  No - awesomest.   

[SunDog]

Concur, no one is leaving just because eservices and WMIRS are awkward and user hostile; but my Wing has lost very qualified mission pilots because of the preponderance of the hassles. Eservices, WMIRS, and the very clumsy flight release procedures did contribute to those hassles, and to the losses. At least one guy was an IT pro invovled with a major on-line retailer.

We don't need a cutting edge web site; no amateur-hour dancing baloney required - just a solid site, with a clear UI, with clean navigation and integration between WMIRS, quals, and scheduling.

Will many folks leave CAP because of the poor IT systems? No, of course not. But when coupled with the increasing bureaucratic burden, it has impact. A volunteer org has to budget member's time. You waste their time, you waste your main resource. Each hour spent on silliness comes off the top.

Bad systems insult your base, and impact your credibility.

[JC004]

 :clap:

Thank you.

If I could have collected even just a couple volunteers to help me, I would have done the new web site FOR FREE and it would have been standards-based, super high quality, and heavily tested.  What we have is VERY seriously lacking.

Everything from the concept, mock-ups, site plan, card sorts, etc. to the launch, maintenance and content management would have been dirt cheap to execute and far surpassed the capabilities of what we have right now.

I wouldn't have been able to do it ALL by myself because I'm a developer and not a graphic designer/artist, but I've done some pretty good sites, even did work for some big-time sites.  I don't know anyone who is everything - an awesome graphic designer/artist, developer, SEO, etc., etc., but a small team of volunteers could have pulled this off beautifully.  With the right people, we could have got something really outstanding done. 

We still could...If they'd go for it, I'd get the people together and our team would make a national CAP site that we could all be proud of.

[SJFedor]

What do you think of a one time "tax" ($20.00 maybe?) on senior members to pay a professional outfit to clean up the eService mess? Not much to be done about the delays and inconvenience from WMIRS, of course. But at some point the hassles are gonna hurt (maybe already have?) participation and/or flying hours.

I've been paying that tax for the past 10 years, in the form of national dues. Don't give them ideas to ask for more money.

[SunDog]

I hear you; drop the tax idea. I understood that National was $$$ constrained, and had put some people on the street in the last year or so.

If money was the only obstacle, I guess I was willing to chip in. My intuition is that it's not really an issue for management, or not one of any priority.

National is more transmit than receive - imagine we're stuck with the status quo - we can live with it or hit the road.

National had a survey for affinity marketing - has there ever been a membership survey for issues of concern?

[JC004]

...
National had a survey for affinity marketing - has there ever been a membership survey for issues of concern?

Not that I've ever seen.

[JackFrost3k]

I totally disagree. eServices has grown into an excellent environment. There will always be complaints, until the system is understood 

[JC004]

...
until the system is understood 

That sounds like a usability/user experience problem.  Usability experts cost a fortune, but it might be good if NHQ did a nice big usability test with the membership and changed the configuration of the links and such based on that.  I am sure there are a number of IT volunteers throughout the country that would be happy to run it locally.

[Brillo]

I can definitely see some room for improvements on eServices, but overall I have a good feel for it.  However, I spend much of my time in Member Reports and AE related apps.

BTW anyone notice sign-on and home page changes?  Just looks different for some reason...

[SunDog]

That discussion died quick!

I did get a couple of direct emails from folks in various stages of outrage. . .if you really, truly, passionatley love eServices and WMIRS, good on ya, that's cool.

It appears most folks must be happy (or not terribly unhappy) with the prodcuts - so be it. Perhaps I value my time too highly, or expect too much from a quasi-gov't entity.

I haven't had to use either for some months, as I've drifted away from CAP, as have several other MP's from my squadron. Last time I flew CAP, it took a total of 4 web site visits, 4 phone calls, and 5 emails, start to finish. Throw in the 104 and the silly ORM for a few more wasted minutes. CAP only, mind you - exclusive of FAA, weather, etc. 

I estimate the computer time exceeded the flying time. One of my email corrospondents suggested that if I didn't like it, I could go elsewhere; sound, if harsh, advice; so, that's what I did.

[Titan 25]

It should be part of an overall web strategy that includes the public site, open member site, and password-protected areas.  It all needs to be tied into one cohesive, easy to use platform. 

Amen to this!!

OH! and wouldn't it be awesome if eservices looked like gocivilairpatrol.com? But eservices is still, for the most part, quite easy for me to use. The only problems I have with it is the difficulty in finding things in big longs lists of links and it not being a part of the official website in one big platform.

[davidsinn]

OH! and wouldn't it be awesome if eservices looked like gocivilairpatrol.com?

Bite your tongue Gocivilairpatrol.com is an awful eyesore and is barely usable. I prefer the clean look and feel of eServices.

[Titan 25]

OH! and wouldn't it be awesome if eservices looked like gocivilairpatrol.com?

Bite your tongue Gocivilairpatrol.com is an awful eyesore and is barely usable. I prefer the clean look and feel of eServices.

WELL.... I think it's a legit site!!   Kind of wish we would go back to cap.gov though. Just a little bit.

[a2capt]

OH! and wouldn't it be awesome if eservices looked like gocivilairpatrol.com?

ZOMG! Please. No. eServices is just fine, if they would quit playing with the CSS and jacking up the font sizes it would even be better.  Concentrate on consistency and functionality, quit changing the names of menu options, etc.

But please, don't give them any ideas. The CMS behind gocivilairpatrol.com is the most craptastic example of how to do it, ever.

[SunDog]

Noting the positive comments, I went back to eServices, in case something magic had happened in the last few months; maybe you folks have just gotten used to it?

Put yourself in the place of a new member - unknown acronyms, unclear relationships between sections, scattered resources.  But it's probably not worth the time to reflect on it any further.

If you happen to be a pilot, you might compare eServices to AOPA's web site; compare search features, ease of navigation, organization of content. There is a striking contrast. As an IT guy, I would be reluctant to be associated with eServices. . .

But, each to his own. . .if it's serving the purpose, and not driving too many folks away, a 60% solution is better than none at all.

[arajca]

It's not that everyone is happy with Eservices. It's that gocivilairpatrol.com is so bad. Most companies have external and internal websites. The external ones have all the glamour and glitz, while the internal ones are designed more for function. I have a moderately fast computer with a high speed internet connection and gocivilairpatrol.com is still slow. It reflects a trend I've seen in company public sites - a negative trend. Too much crap. You need to grab the first time visitors attention, but putting too much on the front page slows the page down and turns off the visitor.

[spacecommand]

You just learn the system and acronyms like you learn anything else.  It might be slow at first but then you learn the ropes.