Does anyone know more about this? We hear so much about CAP not doing rescues much any longer, but this is a huge save. Glad to hear all the aircrew survived.
I found this thanks to Google Alerts.
http://www.huntingtonnews.net/state/100220-staff-statecrashvictims.html
http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=51391
Glad to know about this valliant and courageous effort, especially as reported by local media. Sad to see the Navy didn't recognize us. It would have been interesting to see the reactions on the victims at the crash site... that the professionals were being rescued by the volunteers.
Can you put 14 people in a Blackhawk helicopter? I know it says
MH-60. The "M" designates Special Operations. I am wondering
if the Navy is quiet on this because the passengers may have been
"special". When I was in the Army Reserve I trained at Fort Pickett.
We saw very serious, VERY heavily armed non US Army special people
walking around ,flying around,and blowing up stuff. I hope the passengers and crew recover.
Quote from: Senior on February 20, 2010, 06:41:34 PM
Can you put 14 people in a Blackhawk helicopter? I know it says
MH-60. The "M" designates Special Operations. I am wondering
if the Navy is quiet on this because the passengers may have been
"special". When I was in the Army Reserve I trained at Fort Pickett.
We saw very serious, VERY heavily armed non US Army special people
walking around ,flying around,and blowing up stuff. I hope the passengers and crew recover.
All H-60 airframes in the Navy will be MHs very shortly. They will be a two airframe fleet consisting of MH-60R and MH-60S. M only means multi-mission not spec ops.
Sad the Navy didn't report CAP involvement, considering we're all on the same "team" ... probably too embarrassed.
Quote from: Marshalus on February 20, 2010, 10:15:02 PM
Sad the Navy didn't report CAP involvement, considering we're all on the same "team" ... probably too embarrassed.
That's pretty harsh. I'd say more clueless than embarrassed.
The Navy clearly isn't too embarrassed to extend thanks to everyone involved, at least the ones they know about. This article thanks more people than an acceptance speech at the Oscars. CAP didn't make the list for some reason. I don't doubt CAP was there, but may have been mistaken for Nat'l Guard.
http://www.register-herald.com/local/local_story_050231748.html
Well I think all of this gets down to how quickly we in Civil Air Patrol can respond. IF notification is delayed, than a CAP response will be delayed.
Also see: http://mt-milcom.blogspot.com/2010/02/afrcc-assists-in-search-for-downed.html (notice the time of initial SARSAT alert to AFRCC).
Again, I'd also like to point out that if we in CAP wore distinct uniforms (versus military type BDU's) with large orange/lime green vest that had Civil Air Patrol on it with our emblem also, there would be a much better chance of being easily recognized as CIVIL AIR PATROL.
We really need to be sure we get the appropriate credit & recognition for our efforts!!!
RM
Folks, there were apparently quite a few local agencies involved so give the Navy a break if they didn't manage to mention every single one of them. Its called teamwork. Sometimes we'll get appropriate credit for helping out, sometimes we won't, and sometimes we'll probably get more credit than we deserve. It all balances out.
Quote from: Senior on February 20, 2010, 06:41:34 PM
Can you put 14 people in a Blackhawk helicopter? I know it says
MH-60. The "M" designates Special Operations. I am wondering
if the Navy is quiet on this because the passengers may have been
"special". When I was in the Army Reserve I trained at Fort Pickett.
We saw very serious, VERY heavily armed non US Army special people
walking around ,flying around,and blowing up stuff. I hope the passengers and crew recover.
You can put about 16 - 18 folks in an MH-60 if you don't have and seats, they have light equipment, and a couple of guys stand up. The guys towards the middle have to hold onto the guys whose feet are dangling. 14 really isn't a problem. If there's two fast ropes on board, then two guys have to sit on top of them.
Quote from: SarDragon on February 20, 2010, 10:32:59 PM
Quote from: Marshalus on February 20, 2010, 10:15:02 PM
Sad the Navy didn't report CAP involvement, considering we're all on the same "team" ... probably too embarrassed.
That's pretty harsh. I'd say more clueless than embarrassed.
I was only halfway serious. From the sound of it there were lots of groups involved. What matters is all the crew members were rescued. Still would have liked them to mention it on their news story, just for the PR.
If you're only half serious, them stick in a smiley to let us know. Take a look at my sig for further insight. 8)
Just expect 99% of what I post to have a tacit ;)
Quote from: Marshalus on February 21, 2010, 08:46:52 PM
Just expect 99% of what I post to have a tacit ;)
Well then we expect to see a smiley on 99% of your posts. Emotions do not communicate well on the internets.
Fellows,
Since when it is the Navy's responsibility to do CAP's public affairs? I submit that the Navy, while making a faux pas in not reporting CAP's involvement, is not obligied to do so.
It should be noted that a CAP PAO should have that collar.
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 22, 2010, 01:55:08 AM
Fellows,
Since when it is the Navy's responsibility to do CAP's public affairs? I submit that the Navy, while making a faux pas in not reporting CAP's involvement, is not obligied to do so.
It should be noted that a CAP PAO should have that collar.
What would have happened to us if the CAP PAO had claimed sole credit for us and hadn't mentioned any of the other SAR forces involved? There would have been heated phone conversations all over the place in record time and we would have looked like idiots. :o
Now, I do think we have some reason to be a little peeved at the AFRCC which didn't mention CAP at all even though it is a sure thing that they were the ones who called CAP.
http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123191109
I don't think anyone suggested the Navy was obliged to mention CAP, or that their PAO even knew CAP participated.
Yes, a CAP PAO should work it. Judging from one of the links in my OP it looks like someone did make an effort. (That same text also made it on our national website.) Of course the Associated Press is listening to the Navy, not CAP. Ultimately the story isn't about CAP, although an honorable mention would be nice. AFRCC had to toot their own horn too.
My son is aircrew (still training) in the Marines. I sent him the story; he and a few of his buddies appreciated CAP's contribution. That's good enough for me :-)
Quote from: wuzafuzz on February 22, 2010, 03:34:46 AMAFRCC had to toot their own horn too.
I agree, and the AFRCC generally probably doesn't get enough credit for what it does, however seeing as how CAP was acting under them, a mention in their release would have been appropriate since they weren't the ones actually out on the ground.
After all, the AFRCC is mentioned in the tagline of almost every CAP press release put out on any subject (or it is if you're using the one developed by NHQ).
Everybody happy now?
http://www.wvnstv.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=76546
Not unless we get a ribbon..
^I'd prefer if it were a sash...
Did you watch the video? They got coins! >:D
Seriously though. Very cool, nice of the Navy to throw a little party for everyone. Some luck CAP members got a lot of face time in the video towards the end.
Quote from: RiverAux on March 11, 2010, 06:27:12 PM
Everybody happy now?
http://www.wvnstv.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=76546
River:
Thanks for the link. Sounds like a difficult mission successfully accomplished through the help of a number of agencies. Thank God there was no loss of life.
As a current APAO for my squadron and wing and former broadcast journalist and manager, media outlets don't always simply regurgitate every press release they get. (They obviously do use some but not all.) And if the reporter or editor doesn't know what CAP is, the release might just get read (if lucky) then tossed. And if a release about this came from the USAF or USN first, that's going to carry more weight than a release from CAP. The service branches have paid people to do this, so they are probably in a better position to respond quicker. Remember, we're volunteers with other jobs. So there's probably going to be a delay at times when our release goes out.
So, the PAO may well have done their job and their version of the rescue participation didn't get picked up until later in the reporting of the story like River linked to here. Perhaps one of the lessons here is to make sure your squadron, group, and wing have PAOs that either have good contacts with the media from previous or current work with them and or they make it a priority to get to know our friends in the local media. From my broadcasting days, believe me, I was more likely to at least read a press release or take a phone call from a publicist if I knew them than if I didn't know them. It's just human nature. And in return, if I had questions about a story or potential story, I'd call them because I knew I could trust them.
We're all in the people meetin' business in CAP in my opinion. That results in more recruitment and better relationships with the media, first responders, law enforcement, the business community, politicians, and everyone else who we either might help or whose assistance we could use.
Again, bravo to the folks in West Virginia from all the groups who put it on the line to help others. It is inspiring.
Quote from: davidsinn on February 20, 2010, 08:48:47 PM
Quote from: Senior on February 20, 2010, 06:41:34 PM
Can you put 14 people in a Blackhawk helicopter? I know it says
MH-60. The "M" designates Special Operations. I am wondering
if the Navy is quiet on this because the passengers may have been
"special". When I was in the Army Reserve I trained at Fort Pickett.
We saw very serious, VERY heavily armed non US Army special people
walking around ,flying around,and blowing up stuff. I hope the passengers and crew recover.
All H-60 airframes in the Navy will be MHs very shortly. They will be a two airframe fleet consisting of MH-60R and MH-60S. M only means multi-mission not spec ops.
The only H60 airframes in the navy that were specifically designed for the CSAR/SpecOps missions were the HH60H's. The navy had a limited number of these in the number of about 12. However they are currently being phased out for the MH type...there are even a few SH types out there but not many