EFJohnson 5300 Programming

[kd8gua]

I own a Johnson 5300 that I plan to use for amateur and CAP use. I am having one heck of a time programming it however. I own the aftermarket programming cable available on a popular auction site.

I have tried two different 5300s (mine and a friends') on a total of 5 different PCs, using COM ports, and USB to Serial Converters, and I've even used upwards of 5 different versions of PCConfigure software. Every time I go to program this radio, to read or write, I receive a "Communication error during upload/download." message.

Has anyone else experienced this? If so, what did you do to remedy this? Thanks!

[arajca]

Does the serial number start 5317MD? If so, that could be your problem. The first generation ("MD" series) are nototiously fussy about the programming cable. I've had a set up work once, then not work again with the MD radios. Same setup, same settngs, same bloody radio!

[kratclif]

I am going through the same thing: a 5300 radio with an aftermarket programming cable and the correct PCC version. Same error you get, even on XP with a real COM port. Next I tried with a "real" EFJ programming RIB. Still no go.

However, my Wing DC found out that "version 1" radios may need a different EFJ RIB. The newer RIB part number ends with 001 while the older model that is required for V1 radios end with 000. At least I think that's what I was told.

I'll be trying it tonight with borrowed equipment and will let you know.

Kevin

[arajca]

The MD series are the version 1 radios. And they do need the older RIB.

[wuzafuzz]

The older radios require a different RIB and are fussier about serial port settings.  If I recall correctly I have to set the port to run slower when programming the older radios.

I bought a programming cable from the RF Guys using squadron money.  That thing has been like magic on older radios, including some I couldn't talk to with ANY EF Johnson cable.  Of course your mileage may vary depending on the specific equipment you have.

http://www.rfguys.com/product/ef-johnson-5300-53sl-ascend-es-radio-programming-cable

It also helps to use older computers, only program when the moon is full, and make sure you hold your tongue just right.  I've heard rumor of "programming ritual dances" but have not actually seen one performed.

[arajca]

It also helps to use older computers, only program when the moon is full, and make sure you hold your tongue just right.  I've heard rumor of "programming ritual dances" but have not actually seen one performed.

You forgot to mention the uttering the magic words repeatedly in a loud voice. 

[SarDragon]

I was involved in the CAWG programming evolution a while back, and the biggest problem we had was with baud rate. Some would work only at 19,200, and others would work only at 9,600. Other than that everything worked great.

[kd8gua]

This is a 5326 high power unit that I plan to lower the power output on and refund to 136-174 (the high power ones only do 146-174). This unit has a 53SL control head, so I don't know if the mismatch would cause such an error.

[SarDragon]

Have never messed with one of those.

Will the software recognize the radio at all? Which version are you using? Older versions sometimes will not recognize newer radios.

Have you tried changing the baud rate?

No other suggestions off the top of my head.

[kd8gua]

No version of software will read this radio. The software comes up with the same error message as if the radio is not connected whatsoever. This radio has firmware version 4.14.5, which is supposed to use PCConfigure 2.10.2. The previous owner claims this radio was last programmed with 2.12.6. I have tried versions 2.4.6, 2.10.2, 2.12.6, 2.12.7, and 2.16.3. The software gives the error "Communication error during upload."

I've tried changing baud rates, COM port address, and in the event of USB to serial converters even changing the USB ports and all.

What a mess! Whichever engineer at EFJ came up with this inordinate amount of software that doesn't all communicate must enjoy causing people to go bald!

[SarDragon]

Have you tried on a computer with a real serial port? I have had poor success with USB serial port adapters on the EFJs.

[Spaceman3750]

Are you using a RIB or RIB-less cable (if they even exist for EFJs). When I programmed my Motorola some time back I remember seeing lots of folks saying the RIB-less cables are unreliable (I got on fine but YMMV).

I'm out of ideas.

[SarDragon]

I've never seen a RIB-less cable for the EFJs. (I do have limited exposure opportunities, though.)

[jimmydeanno]

From a non-comm person, why does it seem like programming radios is far more difficult than anything else?  Seriously, why isn't it just plugging it in and updating it like an i-pod?  Is this a case of a small market that hasn't reached the "ease of use" folks yet?

[arajca]

From a non-comm person, why does it seem like programming radios is far more difficult than anything else?  Seriously, why isn't it just plugging it in and updating it like an i-pod?  Is this a case of a small market that hasn't reached the "ease of use" folks yet?

Given that some manufacturers (Big M, EFJ) have just recently discovered DOS is not a common operating system, I don't know if they've even considered ease-of-use, although Motorola and EFJ have some of the most time intensive programs - each channel requires a window refresh. Icom has figured some of this out. Their software uses a spreadsheet format to enter the info, and they have good USB cables available.

When everything is set correctly, it is simple. Start program, connect radio, turn on radio, upload code plug, turn radio off and back on, done. Two, maybe three minutes.

[Brad]

What they need to do is allow the field-programing capability that the version 6 portables have for the mobile units. Yes, I know, frequency issues. Or at least ship them with that option enabled by default then add a menu option to "Finalize" or whatnot, which when you're done it removes the ability to field-program, that way the curious Cadet Whiz Kid can't go digging around in the radio and finding all our frequencies to share with his facebook friends.

[wuzafuzz]

The so-called RIB-less cables merely include the necessary circuit inside the cable.  They aren't truly RIB-less.  See my earlier post for an example.

Programming "professional grade" EFJ and Motorola radios is a consistent headache.  Iffy communications between computer and radio, bizarre "gotchas" in software, and wildly changing methods across their product line all conspire to drive radio techs into fits of frustration. 

In contrast, my recent Icom, Kenwood, and Yaesu ham radios have been drop dead simple to program by computer.

In spite of the programming drama, I remain a fan of Motorola equipment and own several samples.

[wuzafuzz]

No version of software will read this radio. The software comes up with the same error message as if the radio is not connected whatsoever. This radio has firmware version 4.14.5, which is supposed to use PCConfigure 2.10.2. The previous owner claims this radio was last programmed with 2.12.6. I have tried versions 2.4.6, 2.10.2, 2.12.6, 2.12.7, and 2.16.3. The software gives the error "Communication error during upload."

I've tried changing baud rates, COM port address, and in the event of USB to serial converters even changing the USB ports and all.

What a mess! Whichever engineer at EFJ came up with this inordinate amount of software that doesn't all communicate must enjoy causing people to go bald!

I suspect you are still experiencing issues with an incompatible RIB or serial port settings.

As others have noted, serial to USB adapters are notoriously unreliable...regardless of settings.  I have had better success with older USB 1.0 adapters, but still dicey.  Native serial ports remain the gold standard.  Even then, experimenting with serial port settings is often necessary.  Typically I adjust the baud rate in the EFJ software AND match that setting in Device Manager.  Sometimes I have adjusted other serial port settings as suggested by people at Batboard.  That is a Motorola focused forum, but discussions sometimes cover other brands.

Still, some computers work better for this than others.  I don't know why that is, different chipsets maybe?  I have seen two computers, apparently identical, behave differently when programming radios.

One final thought, stay away from 64 bit versions of Windows.  You need 32 bit Windows to talk to the EFJ radios.  The software will run on 64 bit, but you cannot talk to the hardware.  At least that has been my experience...so far.

[arajca]

One final thought, stay away from 64 bit versions of Windows.  You need 32 bit Windows to talk to the EFJ radios.  The software will run on 64 bit, but you cannot talk to the hardware.  At least that has been my experience...so far.

Actually, I'm running Windows 7 64-bit and the only problems I've had are not computer/OS dependent.

[kratclif]

I am going through the same thing: a 5300 radio with an aftermarket programming cable and the correct PCC version. Same error you get, even on XP with a real COM port. Next I tried with a "real" EFJ programming RIB. Still no go.

However, my Wing DC found out that "version 1" radios may need a different EFJ RIB. The newer RIB part number ends with 001 while the older model that is required for V1 radios end with 000. At least I think that's what I was told.

I'll be trying it tonight with borrowed equipment and will let you know.

Kevin

Success! I was finally able to read/write my version 1 radio. Here's the combination of hardware/software I had to use:

Windows XP (32-bit)
Pentium 4 PC with Hyper-threading disabled in BIOS*
EFJ RIB 023-5300-000
Real serial port (not USB) with speed in PCC set to 9600
PCC 1.28.08

* Prior to disabling Hyperthreading I could read the Version information but not the codeplug. Read somewhere that the -000 RIB didn't support dual-core processors, and indeed the hyperthreading setting fixed it! The -001 RIB wouldn't read the version information or the codeplug from this radio.

The rfguys cable still doesn't work for me using  this configuration and this radio.

Hopefully the above helps someone.

Folks complain about Motorola programming software all the time, but at least in my experience it works consistently and the documentation is good!

Kevin

[wuzafuzz]

I am going through the same thing: a 5300 radio with an aftermarket programming cable and the correct PCC version. Same error you get, even on XP with a real COM port. Next I tried with a "real" EFJ programming RIB. Still no go.

However, my Wing DC found out that "version 1" radios may need a different EFJ RIB. The newer RIB part number ends with 001 while the older model that is required for V1 radios end with 000. At least I think that's what I was told.

I'll be trying it tonight with borrowed equipment and will let you know.

Kevin

Success! I was finally able to read/write my version 1 radio. Here's the combination of hardware/software I had to use:

Windows XP (32-bit)
Pentium 4 PC with Hyper-threading disabled in BIOS*
EFJ RIB 023-5300-000
Real serial port (not USB) with speed in PCC set to 9600
PCC 1.28.08

* Prior to disabling Hyperthreading I could read the Version information but not the codeplug. Read somewhere that the -000 RIB didn't support dual-core processors, and indeed the hyperthreading setting fixed it! The -001 RIB wouldn't read the version information or the codeplug from this radio.

The rfguys cable still doesn't work for me using  this configuration and this radio.

Hopefully the above helps someone.

Folks complain about Motorola programming software all the time, but at least in my experience it works consistently and the documentation is good!

Kevin

Woohoo!  It's nice to hear some success stories.  Thanks for sharing the info about hyperthreading.

[kd8gua]

I am meeting a fellow CAP member this week to attempt to try and program this radio with his equipment. If this doesn't work, I'm selling this radio!

[cpyahoo]

Can't we just go with old PRC-77s?  I know how to work one of those!

[Al Sayre]

I had a lot of problems trying to use xp even with an EFJ cable and no luck at all if i used a usb-serial converter.  I finally flogged an old windows 95 laptop back to life that has a true serial port.  Works like a champ...

[ee1993]

I had a lot of problems trying to use xp even with an EFJ cable and no luck at all if i used a usb-serial converter.  I finally flogged an old windows 95 laptop back to life that has a true serial port.  Works like a champ...

I did the same using an old laptop with a real serial port, installed Win95 and it programmed my 5300.  I have a 7 year old Lenovo Think Pad laptop with WinXP with no serial ports that I use with a USB to serial adapter to program the 5100 handhelds; it would not program the 5300.  I added a PCMCIA serial adapter to the free PCMCIA slot and it enumerated two serial ports, COM6 and COM7.  COM7 worked for both the 5300 and 5100.  PCC V 1.28.0.8 Setting had to be 19200 baud for the 5300 and Send/Get delay set to 10 (Tools, Preferences.., Other).  Works great!  The retired CAP member who sold me the 5300 has another for sale if anyone is interested.

Bob Morris

[KL7EV]

There are a several factors that effect PC COnfig's ability to program radios.

First of all, PC Config does not work well with multi-processor CPU's.

That is why the old legacy machines work so well. HI!  HOWEVER, . . .  there is a work around!

You can get PC Config to work under Windows 7 (or any other operating system with a multi-core processor) by installing PC Config in a VM Ware protected work space.  You can use VM Player, or the more robust VM Workstation.

One other factor to be aware of, the older radios with that require PC Config 1.30.2 will not work with the USB programming cable.

The USB Programming cable should work find for radios with the 4.x firmware.  I wish I had the "Cheat Sheet" from EF Johnson, because there are a number of OTHER issues.

The biggest issue for programming problems, lies with the fact that PC Config does not work well with a Multi-Core processor.  The above suggested fix should resolve MOST (if not all) of your problems.     :clap:

       - Greg -

KL7EV

[JeffDG]

You can get PC Config to work under Windows 7 (or any other operating system with a multi-core processor) by installing PC Config in a VM Ware protected work space.  You can use VM Player, or the more robust VM Workstation.

That's an absolutely FANTASTIC idea!  Both because VMWare works well, but also because you can take a VM and copy it to other PCs very easily...so if someone gets everything set up, they can share that VM with others who might want to do this.

Great idea!

[ee1993]

KL7EV,

Do you have any thought on why PCC 1.30 will not work with a USB adapter to program a 3117 mobile?  I have no problems programming even the older version 1 5113 portables with Win 7 and a USB adapter but I need to use an XP laptop with a PC-MCIA serial card adapter and the EFJ RIB box to program the version 2 mobiles.

W0EG

[SarDragon]

The best thing we've come up with here, simply put, is that the computer talks too fast for the radio. I know, the baud rate is set at 9600, or 19,200, but something is getting overwhelmed in the communication process.

I have to run two different versions of PCConfigure, and use two different code plug files to take care of the different radios in my group. I do it all on an olde XP laptop, with a straight serial cable, and everything works fine.

As soon as I can find an XP disc with a good license code, I'm going to load it up on VM Player on my Win 7 laptop, and see what I can do using the USB adapter.

[Brad]

Can't speak for EFJ hardware, haven't tried it yet, but with my Motorola XTS-3000, a RIBless cable didn't work for me, neither did a USB to serial cable. I ended up ordering a serial card off eBay for like $3, then bought an actual RIB and standard programming cable, and installed a 32-bit XP partition to run the programming software.

I've tried running it on XP virtual machines but it doesn't work, gets lost in the crossover to Windows 7 64-bit. A roundabout approach but still the best, it ensures that all the timings are accurate and the radio is read and written correctly. The more you can reduce timing errors, the less your chance of bricking the radio.