Is this normal???

[DBlair]

Upon my return to CAP, I've noticed a few policies in my new unit (a Cadet Squadron) that seem to be quite different from what I remember as a Cadet. Unit members repeatedly claim that these are according to regulations, or that these are squadron policy/tradition.

My question is whether these things are normal and/or indeed correct. Perhaps because it has been a while since I was a Cadet, but I do not remember these sort of things being correct...

1. If a Cadet forgets their cover inside the building or at home, they are required to spend the entire time outdoors with their hand over their head. This bothers me when I see them in formation like this and also when they are trying to learn drill or doing other outdoor activities.

2. When the flight/squadron guidons are put aside after formation, all of the Cadets salute the guidon and sound off "Guidon post, Hoorah!"

3. Cadets are allowed an "alternative" uniform of the squadron t-shirt, jeans, and sneakers.

4. CPFT pushups done in unison to cadence- 3 secs up, 3 secs down. Rather than testing their individual physical ability, it tires them out of making them doing it slow and in unison. (The CC claims that this is according to Regulations)

5. Only Officers (Cadets/Senior) are allowed to wear corfam shoes with their blues.

6. During the opening formation, after reporting to the CC, the C/CC will face the Cadets and sound off with something like "...first period, X; second period, break; third period, Y; forth period, commander's call. Orders have been posted by C/Captain XYZ, Cadet Commander. Any questions? [followed by the unit sounding off 'No, Sir/Ma'am!' etc]"

7. Oral/Review Boards being purely symbolic... As the new Leadership Officer, I was part of an "oral board" that made me realize that not a single Cadet knew the name of the achievement they were on, nor did any of them actually have their insignia on correctly and yet they were allowed to promote. I think this is absurd.


So, is this sort of stuff the norm now in the Cadet program, and additionally, are they correct or are these misguided squadron customs? I take issue with these things as they seem to be incorrect and any help/comments anyone could provide in suggesting how to deal with these things would be appreciated.

[Gunner C]

Upon my return to CAP, I've noticed a few policies in my new unit (a Cadet Squadron) that seem to be quite different from what I remember as a Cadet. Unit members repeatedly claim that these are according to regulations, or that these are squadron policy/tradition.

My question is whether these things are normal and/or indeed correct. Perhaps because it has been a while since I was a Cadet, but I do not remember these sort of things being correct...

1. If a Cadet forgets their cover inside the building or at home, they are required to spend the entire time outdoors with their hand over their head. This bothers me when I see them in formation like this and also when they are trying to learn drill or doing other outdoor activities.

Not normal, but it is stupid.

2. When the flight/squadron guidons are put aside after formation, all of the Cadets salute the guidon and sound off "Guidon post, Hoorah!"

That's a little past stupid.  Not normal.

3. Cadets are allowed an "alternative" uniform of the squadron t-shirt, jeans, and sneakers.

That's OK - if there's a good reason for it:  no uniforms available, special meeting night, etc.  They're supposed to be in uniform. (Maybe they're emulating the SMs).

4. CPFT pushups done in unison to cadence- 3 secs up, 3 secs down. Rather than testing their individual physical ability, it tires them out of making them doing it slow and in unison. (The CC claims that this is according to Regulations)

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt - pulled muscle, etc.  That's dumb/not normal.

5. Only Officers (Cadets/Senior) are allowed to wear corfam shoes with their blues.

If a cadet wants to buy something that is within the regulation, then that's OK.  Otherwise, it's horse squeeze.

6. During the opening formation, after reporting to the CC, the C/CC will face the Cadets and sound off with something like "...first period, X; second period, break; third period, Y; forth period, commander's call. Orders have been posted by C/Captain XYZ, Cadet Commander. Any questions? [followed by the unit sounding off 'No, Sir/Ma'am!' etc]"

Strange, but OK IMO.  Better to post a written training schedule.  It sounds like the old days when, during a parade, the adjutant would "post the order" (Yell out: "Detail for the day, Officer of the Day is Lt Jones!")

7. Oral/Review Boards being purely symbolic... As the new Leadership Officer, I was part of an "oral board" that made me realize that not a single Cadet knew the name of the achievement they were on, nor did any of them actually have their insignia on correctly and yet they were allowed to promote. I think this is absurd.

Agreed.  It sounds like the unit is doing a lot of things that someone has seen in a movie or have changed slightly over the years until the utility of it is unrecognizable.  It sounds like they're going by the adage of

"Remember, it's not how you play, it's how you look."

So, is this sort of stuff the norm now in the Cadet program, and additionally, are they correct or are these misguided squadron customs? I take issue with these things as they seem to be incorrect and any help/comments anyone could provide in suggesting how to deal with these things would be appreciated.

As I said above, there's something seriously wrong here.  Just my opinion.

[MSgt Van]

Warning - the following comments are my opinion.

Upon my return to CAP, I've noticed a few policies in my new unit (a Cadet Squadron) that seem to be quite different from what I remember as a Cadet. Unit members repeatedly claim that these are according to regulations, or that these are squadron policy/tradition.

My question is whether these things are normal and/or indeed correct. Perhaps because it has been a while since I was a Cadet, but I do not remember these sort of things being correct...

1. If a Cadet forgets their cover inside the building or at home, they are required to spend the entire time outdoors with their hand over their head. This bothers me when I see them in formation like this and also when they are trying to learn drill or doing other outdoor activities.I would consider this hazing, and as such, I would forbid it

2. When the flight/squadron guidons are put aside after formation, all of the Cadets salute the guidon and sound off "Guidon post, Hoorah!" Militaristic B.S. We aren't the Marine corps Jr edition

3. Cadets are allowed an "alternative" uniform of the squadron t-shirt, jeans, and sneakers. Contrary to CAPR 52-16 and 39-1 unless authorized by Wing or Region CC

4. CPFT pushups done in unison to cadence- 3 secs up, 3 secs down. Rather than testing their individual physical ability, it tires them out of making them doing it slow and in unison. (The CC claims that this is according to Regulations)Maybe a good physical training idea, but ask to see the "reg". Most won't be able to produce a reference.

5. Only Officers (Cadets/Senior) are allowed to wear corfam shoes with their blues.
39-1 authorizes high-gloss or patent finish. No prohibition for cadets.

6. During the opening formation, after reporting to the CC, the C/CC will face the Cadets and sound off with something like "...first period, X; second period, break; third period, Y; forth period, commander's call. Orders have been posted by C/Captain XYZ, Cadet Commander. Any questions? [followed by the unit sounding off 'No, Sir/Ma'am!' etc]"

7. Oral/Review Boards being purely symbolic... As the new Leadership Officer, I was part of an "oral board" that made me realize that not a single Cadet knew the name of the achievement they were on, nor did any of them actually have their insignia on correctly and yet they were allowed to promote. I think this is absurd.Contrary to CAPR 52-16


So, is this sort of stuff the norm now in the Cadet program, and additionally, are they correct or are these misguided squadron customs? I take issue with these things as they seem to be incorrect and any help/comments anyone could provide in suggesting how to deal with these things would be appreciated.

[Eeyore]

4. CPFT pushups done in unison to cadence- 3 secs up, 3 secs down. Rather than testing their individual physical ability, it tires them out of making them doing it slow and in unison. (The CC claims that this is according to Regulations)

Well this is about the only thing that is anywhere near correct. It is still wrong, but closer than the other points.

According to CAPP 52-18:

5. Cadence. The push-ups are done to an audible cadence (clapping, drum, metronome, oral command,
etc.) with the cadet completing one (and only one) push-up every three seconds, and continuing
until they can do no more in rhythm (having not done the last three in rhythm). The cadet may halt
when he or she reaches the required number of repetitions for their achievement.

6. Resting. The cadet is free to take as long as they wish to reach the up position, and as long as they
wish to reach the down position, provided they begin a new push-up every 3 seconds. The cadet
may rest in the up or down position, but the President's Challenge recommends cadets remain in
motion throughout the entire 3-second interval to achieve the best results.

So, yes, they are done in a 3 second cadence and we do ours all together, I suppose that would be in unison. They must complete each push-up within that 3 seconds, not 3 seconds up and 3 seconds down, someone misread that.

[jeders]

1. If a Cadet forgets their cover inside the building or at home, they are required to spend the entire time outdoors with their hand over their head. This bothers me when I see them in formation like this and also when they are trying to learn drill or doing other outdoor activities.

I've seen it done. It's not normal, but if it helps the cadet remember their hat and doesn't otherwise interfere with training, then i say let it go.

2. When the flight/squadron guidons are put aside after formation, all of the Cadets salute the guidon and sound off "Guidon post, Hoorah!"

Again silly, but if it helps them build esprit d'corps, have at it.

3. Cadets are allowed an "alternative" uniform of the squadron t-shirt, jeans, and sneakers.

I've heard of/seen many squadrons do an alternative uniform, especially for new cadets, made up of jeans, black/squadron t-shirt, and sneakers. I have no problem with new cadets doing it or if they're doing something where the unifrom might get ruined, otherwise stick to the uniform.

4. CPFT pushups done in unison to cadence- 3 secs up, 3 secs down. Rather than testing their individual physical ability, it tires them out of making them doing it slow and in unison. (The CC claims that this is according to Regulations)

As mentioned, close, but not quite. 3 seconds for the total up and down, otherwise it's correct.

5. Only Officers (Cadets/Senior) are allowed to wear corfam shoes with their blues.

While they are allowed for all, the commander is allowed to make the regs more strict, i.e. only staff can wear black t-shirts, only officers can wear corfams. What they can't do is say staff wears purple shoes. But there must be some form of written policy to make it enforceable.

6. During the opening formation, after reporting to the CC, the C/CC will face the Cadets and sound off with something like "...first period, X; second period, break; third period, Y; forth period, commander's call. Orders have been posted by C/Captain XYZ, Cadet Commander. Any questions? [followed by the unit sounding off 'No, Sir/Ma'am!' etc]"

Written may be better, but if you have to inform your troops, you inform them the best and most efficient way you can. However, having the whole unit sound off with No Sir/Ma'am after the any questions question is utterly stupid. When Cadet Snuffy standing in the rearmost element says, "yes, I have a question," his voice gets drowned out and can't get the help he needs.

7. Oral/Review Boards being purely symbolic... As the new Leadership Officer, I was part of an "oral board" that made me realize that not a single Cadet knew the name of the achievement they were on, nor did any of them actually have their insignia on correctly and yet they were allowed to promote. I think this is absurd.

Also stupid. If you're going to have a review board, then have it actually mean something. If cadets don't have their uniform squared away when they enter the room, I don't even let the continue with the rest of the review board.

[N Harmon]

I stopped looking for normalicies within CAP long ago. Every squadron is a snowflake and all that.

[USADOD]

Guidon should always be posted as it is a representation of your unit, flight, squadron etc etc. It is a motivational tool and it lets the surrounding members know that a introduction has been established as well depending on your location or hosting branch it claims the guidon safe against other unit who wish to capture it. The good game of steal the guidon lol. I do not believe its a regulation that governs this operation, but it has been a rooted tradition. The US Army has done it for ages.

[BillB]

USADoD
Now you opened a can of worms, when people are going to say CAP is the USAF Auxiliary, not the U.S. Army. Or CAP is a civilian organization and not  military. I guess they forget that CAP was under the War Department (read that U.s. Army) until 1947. Much of CAP unofficial customs or traditions comes from that time period, specifically in the cadet program.

[USADOD]

 :clap: Sorry, I forgot that is very much true. I also discovered in my studies that Civil Air Patrol is not the the USAF Auxiliary unless participating in USAF assigned missions, Neat

[BrandonKea]

:clap: Sorry, I forgot that is very much true. I also discovered in my studies that Civil Air Patrol is not the the USAF Auxiliary unless participating in USAF assigned missions, Neat

...or if you're explaining to someone what we do and who we are.

As for the aforementioned questions,  I agree with MSgt Van on most.

The big thing that got me is the review board. And if the cadets have enough time to play capture the guidon but not wear a uniform correctly, or know what achievement they're accomplishing, that is a big issue.