Over 18 Cadets

[Capt Rivera]

Like you said kd5vid....

If the regs allow... which they do...
if the commander approves ... which is the issue

The commander does NOT have to... and most cadets seem to think they are entitled to it.

Unless NHQ changes the wording that they placed their on purpose, there really shouldn't be much to argue about. The decision lies with the squadron commander.

You are an accomplished individual, as am I. One thing I've realized as I was making unheard of accomplishments at half the age other were doing it was that not everyone was like me. Not every cadet is like you were. Not every person who is the same age as you, has accomplished as much and some people might not ever.

The reason it is not a direct promotion without commander discretion is because not everyone who makes C/Col should also be a Capt in the CAP. Generalize all you want but looking at the names of people that won the award and went on to do things that got the award revoked should stand for itself.

Not every C/Col is the same. Not every C/Col should immediately be a Capt. Not every cadet should go directly from being in the cadet program to running it as a senior member...

The issue as I see it is simple. A C/Col is eligible and will make Capt if the Squadron CC feels that person can/will perform at the minimum level he/she wants from his Captains.

As far as other special promotions, that is the squadron commanders choice as to promote or not too...

Of course with all things, the CC should have a standard to which he basis those decisions on and hold everyone to that same standard. The CC should also let that standard be known and freely tell what that standard is if asked.

[Ned]

The commander does NOT have to... and most cadets seem to think they are entitled to it.

"Most Cadets?"  How many Spaatz cadets do you have in your squadron?

I know of at least one, but your statement that most believe they are entitled to it seems a bit . . . overstated.

And is it really any different than the CFI or lawyer who think they are "entitled"?

The problem is probably just one of perspective.  Most cadet units do not have to deal with many requests for initial appointment above 2d Lt except for the former cadet types, whereas senior units (and composite units with a significant senior program) have the full mix.


But I'm not disagreeing with the basic premise that the commander has the discretion; or even that not all Spaatz types are worthy of the advanced grade of captain.

But unlike the college professor, CFI, lawyer, or doctor walking in off the street who might qualify for appointment as a captain, a Spaatz cadet has a proven record of outstanding achievement in CAP stretching over a period of years.

(Afterall, some commander thought they were worthy of an award so rare that fewer than five in a thousand receive it.)

So, given the regulatory guidance, I'd think that the default lies with recognizing the proven sustained performance and appointing the former cadet to captain rather than starting with a clean slate and saying "prove to me that you should be a captain."

But I fully support a reasoned exercise of a commander's discretion to decline the appointment for good cause.



(For the record, I choose to remain a SMWOG for several years after turning senior.)


Ned Lee

[Capt Rivera]

"Most Cadets?"  How many Spaatz cadets do you have in your squadron?

I know of at least one, but your statement that most believe they are entitled to it seems a bit . . . overstated.

Would you prefer I say "Some" okay... Some...

I didn't bring up the special promotion thing... I just pointed out that it does not matter that the CFI WANTS it... It is still the CCs discretion... If the CFI quites over Captains bars, did we really loose anything? [Maybe, maybe not]

I also don't think a cadet should be on the "clean slate"  deal... They can be a valuable resource if they handle the transition well.

Worthy of an award that so few get? I've never looked this up, but.... What are the requirements to be allowed to take the test? Which ones cover the character and attitude of the individual?

I see the cadet progression tests somewhat like military PME. When you are eligible to do a CDC or go in residence you can...unless the commander has reason to not send you. (thats probably a bigger issue)  So you did the CDC or inresidence course, got your TIG/TIS, etc... Does the commander have to promote you or give his recommendation? No! (No recommendation = no promotion)

Well if the commander didn't plan on promoting you why did he allow you to take the course? Maybe he does not mind giving you the opportunity to display knowledge, learn something new in preparation of completing the course, etc.... Maybe, they felt you should gain those things, and after x number of other things he wants to see... then he will promote you/recommend etc...  There are many people who test every year for promotion, there are some who will score high and never be promoted...

My only argument is that no one should expect or demand a promotion. They can request it if they want. They also shouldn't expect to never be demoted if they don't perform/act accordingly.

I would much rather give the time for me to know for sure that I should promote someone, then make a mistake and have to demote them because they refuse to get with the program...

By the way Mr. Lee... You said you declined promotion. Did the lack of rank make you less of a leader? I bet your decision gained you more respect then you would have gotten if they gave you Maj on day 1.

[kd5vid]

What I am seeing is a lack of understanding?

1. CAP Regulations require a CAPF50 per phase which is based on a Review Board and their judgement.  As with all promotions the Commander has to approve and in the case of Spaatz, the WING commander has to approve.  So when it comes to a question of character or attitude, if those were not in keeping with the highest traditions of CAP then the Commander should never have submitted that person for Promotion.

2.  As for the requirements to take the test, look in CAPR 52-16.

3.  If a Cadet Demands a promotion then, yes, the commander should think twice before promoting that person.  ALL PROFESSIONAL APPOINTMENT / FORMER CADET PROMOTIONS HAVE TO BE SIGNED BY THE WING COMMANDER.  It is in CAPR 35-5. 

4.  Your comment about getting to know the person before signing a promotion request is founded, but it brings up the question of Why do we have records then?  If we personally need to get to know the person or feel confident that they have met the requirements under our supervision, then why do we document their performance.  Is it not to facilitate a timely promotions or recognition for their actions at previous units?

Interpretation of the Regulations and taking the time to thoroughly read the regulations would allow you to understand how they are written and how they work.  One paragraph in a random part of the regulation will add onto or change what another paragraph says.

-Andrew Theismann

[MIKE]

...And around and around we go... where we'll stop nobody knows.

[PHall]

...And around and around we go... where we'll stop nobody knows.

Actually Mike, you do know.

[stkgc]

I'm a 33 male in Charleston south Carolina like to know if i can still join cap I'm on the heavy side i like to join to make new Friends and all  i n my heart i know i can do this

[MIKE]

At 33 you won't be joining as a cadet, you'd be joining as a senior member, what we call our adult members.

[stkgc]

ok thank you so much sir