COMMENDATION AWARD

[RiverAux]

Paul, almost all national awards that go to CG Aux members have to be approved by the Coast Guard even those awards that can only go to CG Auxies.  In 2007 nearly 1200 Auxies earned the CG Meritorius Team Commendation, 11 earned the CG Meritorius Unit Commendation, 7 got the CG Unit Commendation.  Those are the most common CG awards earned by Auxies.  A bunch (including me) also have earned the CG Special Operations Service Ribbon though there haven't been any for a couple of years.

[JayT]

Don't get confused talking about AD missions. There is no such thing. There's a total force made up of AD, res, guard, auxiliary, civilian employees, and even contractors. They all together share one mission, and that's it. Any mission that comes down to CAP from any part of the federal govt is an AF mission, just as if it'd gone to any other AF unit. AF personnel are routinely awarded decorations for things done in or out of combat, in or out of the country. The AF also awards those same mil decorations to civilian employees & contractors on a regular basis. CAP is the ONLY piece of that puzzle that isn't routinely recognized. The reason for that is primarily the lack of exposure, not the performance.

We also have our own extensive set of decorations....

Do you really need a Air Force ribbon on your CAP service jacket to do your job better?

[mikeylikey]

^ No, but the recognition from the parent at least once in a while would be nice.  With VSAF starting up, I am sure we will see more recognition, right?!?!

[JayT]

^ No, but the recognition from the parent at least once in a while would be nice.  With VSAF starting up, I am sure we will see more recognition, right?!?!

True, but what is recognition exactly? To me, the best recognition I've gotten is a nod and thanks from an Air National Guard Senior Airmen after I helped him unload some bags at Encampment a few years back. Honestly, I'm not sure having the Air Force award us medals would be completely fair. Wouldn't units based on Air Force bases get the lions share of them?

I mean, I understand the Coastie Aux guys get CG awards, but they spend time actually working with CG guys. Most CAPers don't. The best I could see us doing is have Air Force awards given out by recommandation through the CAP chain of command.......but those wouldn't really be Air Force awards, would they? They'd be CAP awards with a different name on the citation.

So it kinda comes back to my orginal post.......aren't CAP decorations enough? The fact that Air Force civilian workers and contractors get awards doesn't really make a difference in my opinion. It's a different set of circumstances (ie, they actually work for the Air Force full time), and for them, those Air Force awards *are* their only awards. CAP has medals and ribbons for everything from the Valor medals down to achievements for completing education requirements. Would putting 'Air Force' rather then 'Air Force Auxiliary' or 'Civil Air Patrol' in the name really make a difference?

[jimmydeanno]

I'm not sure having the Air Force award us medals would be completely fair. Wouldn't units based on Air Force bases get the lions share of them?

Not that I really care either way, but sometimes people just aren't in the right place at the right time to receive, not everyone is always eligible to receive everything.  When was the last time you got a DSM?  I'm sure that the guys that are over in the sandbox are more likely to be eligible for awards and decs that those stateside won't get.

[jason.pennington]

I'm curious as to why members of CAP would want, or think they deserve, AF awards.  I agree that it is entirely appropriate for the AF to award anyone they wish any AF award they wish.

I appreciate everyone's input, but I must say that if people want AF awards, then they should join the AF.  If work is done as part of the CAP in response to a need by the AF, then some sort of recognition should come from them.  I'm just not sure if it should be an AF medal or ribbon.  I don't believe the Navy gives real Navy awards to Sea Cadet leaders or not, but if they did, as an active duty member myself, I might be taken aback by that.

-- You watch, someone will come at me for the above statement!

The original intent of this post was to get feelings about the possible new achievement medal for CAP members and to be able to recognize members more easily than going through a Wing CC in most cases.

[DNall]

There is no such thing as a CAP mission (aside maybe form some unfunded training). Congress assigns AF to do a set of missions & they pass some of that on to CAP because we are the most appropriate resource in their arsenal. In doing those missions, we've to date saved the AF enough money to pay for the entire F22 program from initial R&D to the final airframe purchase. Even if we never did any other good in the AF's name, that'd be a huge contribution to them.

When a CAP member is flying air recon for the AF over New Orleans & has to land btwn two semis on the freeway with no damage to the AF purchased aircraft or passengers/equipment. I think that's a big deal & does deserve AF recognition. If he crashes in, the AF is taking away from their own wartime ops/trng budget to buy a new plane. Everything we do in CAP, in support of the AF, should be looked at just like a member of the AF doing the same thing as part of their paid service to the AF.

Why you ask though? Well I'll tell you.

First, a lot of people in CAP are also in the real military. They might get a vol serv mdl, most likely in place of some other decoration they would have gotten. And they get that just for being there, not for any significant acts. I can give any CAP decoration to that person & it's absolutely meaningless. But, if the AF gives them a lesser decoration, that means promotion points that effect their career.

Second, it's the parent service saying thank you to a team member the same way they already do to every other member of that team (mil or civ). It's them recognizing the difference we make in their mission/budget. It's mutual respect, and that equals morale in a great big way.

[Short Field]

I never saw a civilian receive a USAF Military Decoration for work they did as a civilian.  If that is happening now, it must be under something similar to the following US Army policy for Department of the Army Civilians serving in Combat Zones.

.B. AWARDS TO DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY CIVILIANS. AWARDS FOR DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY CIVILIANS (DAC) ARE GOVERNED BY AR 672-20, INCENTIVE AWARDS. UNDER HOSTILE CRITERIA, DAC MAY BE CONSIDERED FOR AWARD OF THE BRONZE STAR MEDAL (BSM) , AIR MEDAL (AM), AND THE PURPLE HEART (PH). RECOMMENDATIONS FOR AWARD OF THE BSM, AM, AND PH FOR DAC WILL BE SUBMITTED TO HQ, HRC (AHRC-PDA) , ALEXANDRIA VA 22332-0471.

[RiverAux]

I think that all we are asking for is that a process be set up so that CAP members can potentially get AF awards THAT WE ARE ALREADY ELIGIBLE FOR.  I don't think that is unreasonable, especially when the final call on any award would be up to the AF.  I fully expect that having CAP members earn these awards would be quite rare.

By the way, this isn't anything new --- keep in mind that the very first Air Medals were awarded to 2 CAP members in WWII. 

[DNall]

I never saw a civilian receive a USAF Military Decoration for work they did as a civilian.  If that is happening now, it must be under something similar to the following US Army policy for Department of the Army Civilians serving in Combat Zones.

.B. AWARDS TO DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY CIVILIANS. AWARDS FOR DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY CIVILIANS (DAC) ARE GOVERNED BY AR 672-20, INCENTIVE AWARDS. UNDER HOSTILE CRITERIA, DAC MAY BE CONSIDERED FOR AWARD OF THE BRONZE STAR MEDAL (BSM) , AIR MEDAL (AM), AND THE PURPLE HEART (PH). RECOMMENDATIONS FOR AWARD OF THE BSM, AM, AND PH FOR DAC WILL BE SUBMITTED TO HQ, HRC (AHRC-PDA) , ALEXANDRIA VA 22332-0471.

Those are awardable to any civilian and always have been. That policy statement is just a reminder to field commanders that they can put DAC employees in for that stuff.

There are also a range of non-combat decs awardable, also to any civilian, and then there are a range of decs designated for members of the AF, most which are also awarded to DAF employees, but not contractors. That's done on a fairly regular basis. And why not, it's a lot cheaper than bonuses. CAP personnel on AFAM are legally DAF employees on AF orders.

The issue is that mil awards to civilians have to be approved up thru the SECAF's office. Whereas, the same awards are routine to mil personnel at Gp/Wg/Majcom kind of levels. All we'd be doing here is asking Af to add a couple lines to their reg describing a recommendation & approval process for CAP members on AFAM, which are approved at the equiv echelon levels of the CAP-USAF chain of command. It would be up to them if, when, and how often they wish to utilize it.

[ZigZag911]

I don't believe the Navy gives real Navy awards to Sea Cadet leaders or not, but if they did, as an active duty member myself, I might be taken aback by that.

Sea Cadet leaders, NCC officers, ACA officers, and so on, are not members of the Congressionally chartered auxiliary to their parent/sponsoring service.

That distinction belongs only to CAP and USCGAux.

[JohnKachenmeister]

To me, the question is not "Should we get AF awards in addition to CAP awards?"  The question should be:  "Why does CAP have a separate set of awards from the Air Force?"

If CAP members were activated for Katrina, and served there, why are they awarded a different medal than the Humanitarian Service Medal?  If a person performs an act of non-combat heroism on an Air Force mission, why does he get a Medal of Valor instead of an AF Commendation Medal or Airman's Medal?  If a cadet meets AF standards for marksmanship, why can't he be awarded the AF expert ribbon?

I'm sure there is an answer to these questions, but I'd like to know how CAP went from receiving the first Air Medals to our current situation.

[Hawk200]

So it kinda comes back to my orginal post.......aren't CAP decorations enough? The fact that Air Force civilian workers and contractors get awards doesn't really make a difference in my opinion. It's a different set of circumstances (ie, they actually work for the Air Force full time), and for them, those Air Force awards *are* their only awards. CAP has medals and ribbons for everything from the Valor medals down to achievements for completing education requirements. Would putting 'Air Force' rather then 'Air Force Auxiliary' or 'Civil Air Patrol' in the name really make a difference?

To me, the question is not "Should we get AF awards in addition to CAP awards?"  The question should be:  "Why does CAP have a separate set of awards from the Air Force?"

You know these two posts seem to indicate two sides of a coin. One, if we're going to award our own decs, why do we need Air Force ones, too? On the other hand, if we're working with the Air Force, why aren't their decs sufficient? An interesting dichotomy.

Maybe we, as the members of CAP, need to determine what we are and want to be, instead of trying to live in two separate worlds. Seems like a lot of corporate stuff is done to get around some of the limitations that the Air Force might have. In some cases, the workaround is legitimate, but in others it seems like it's just a way to do our own thing when we don't want to listen to the Air Force.

[DNall]

Maybe we, as the members of CAP, need to determine what we are and want to be, instead of trying to live in two separate worlds. Seems like a lot of corporate stuff is done to get around some of the limitations that the Air Force might have. In some cases, the workaround is legitimate, but in others it seems like it's just a way to do our own thing when we don't want to listen to the Air Force.

That's the ultimate issue in CAP. Far as awards... I think the two sets cover different things.

If I'm on your team & I pitch in to do your work for you & I do that with some distinction... then there is a big dif between you recognizing me for that & me patting myself on the back for it. AF decs are awards by the US govt for support by an AF team mbr acting on fed orders to accomplish govt tasks with whatever level of distinction.

CAP decs are also necessary for a couple simple reasons. First, only some AF decs are awardable to civilians, CAP has to create our own awards mirroring the AF versions with similar standards to make up for that. Second, some of what we do is purely internal or in support of states, etc. Those items have to be recognized internally. And third, we don't really need to take up the time of AF officers with every little thing. There's a needed place for AF awards, but the routine stuff should be dealt with at lower levels, including internally.

[ZigZag911]

But Kach has a good point.....use the AF awards we are eligible for to replace CAP decorations where possible...for one thing, it may make clearer to AF personnel what we do, which may lead to an understanding of who we are (for instance, a Humanitarian service ribbon Will be immediately clear to RM personnel).

[JayT]

But Kach has a good point.....use the AF awards we are eligible for to replace CAP decorations where possible...for one thing, it may make clearer to AF personnel what we do, which may lead to an understanding of who we are (for instance, a Humanitarian service ribbon Will be immediately clear to RM personnel).

Or..........see us as a bunch of wannabes who adopted their ribbons for our purposes.

Do you really think what a CAP member has on their chest will change the first impression that a CAP member makes on them?

Again, the only thing that makes you a chicken is being a chicken. Putting on feathers does not.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Themann:

I hope you are not calling me a chicken.  I also hope you are not implying that CAP members are cowards.

So, what is your point?

I say that if a member performs an act of non-combat heroism, or other significant achievement, the USAF has awards to recognize such conduct.  Why do we need parallel awards to do what the Air Force already does?

If anything, I would see a REDUCTION in the awards worn by CAP members.  No training awards, find ribbons, O-ride ribbons, etc.

But IF you worked a disaster where the RM folk were recognized with the HSM, why do we award a parallel medal instead?

[JayT]

Themann:

I hope you are not calling me a chicken.  I also hope you are not implying that CAP members are cowards.

So, what is your point?

I say that if a member performs an act of non-combat heroism, or other significant achievement, the USAF has awards to recognize such conduct.  Why do we need parallel awards to do what the Air Force already does?

If anything, I would see a REDUCTION in the awards worn by CAP members.  No training awards, find ribbons, O-ride ribbons, etc.

But IF you worked a disaster where the RM folk were recognized with the HSM, why do we award a parallel medal instead?

No sir, I'm certainly not implying that you, or any other members of the organizations whos command patch is on my jacket are cowards! What I'm saying is that sometimes it seems that CAP members believe that by looking more like the military, we'll become more like them. Now, from my admittely short time in CAP thus far (I've only been in since Sept-03), I've learned that it's the other way around. We should be developing a more professional and disiplined corps of adult members and cadets, and doing our jobs better, and finding more jobs to do, rather then worry about uniform wigets.

I think that a military guy would have a better impression of me if I was clean shaven, my uniform was pressed, my hair trimmed, and I addressed him respectfully then if I have subduded tapes on my BDUs and military medals on my service uniform. Also, more importantly, if I had a good working knowledge of whatever I was doing in his/her presence, that would be best of all!

It seems that some of us think that subduded tapes, metal rank insignia, and military medals/ribbons will suddently turn us into a better and more professional force.

On the topic of military ribbons, I'm not opposed to them per say, but I don't see how they would make our job any better or easier. If I make a find on a REDCAP, a find ribbons on a service jacket I never wear is fine enough for me. If I save a family in an SUV during a massive hurricane/flood/volvano eruption, then a CAP Medal of Valor on the aformentioned jacket is award enough for me. It's a CAP medals, and I'm a member of CAP. I might be a subcontractor of sorts to the Air Force at the time, but my uniform says 'Civil Air Patrol' in bigger letters then 'USAF' anywhere.

Basically, to answer your question, the reason we should be awarded a parallel medal to military folks for similar action is because.......we're a parallel organization. We're not the regular military.

[JohnKachenmeister]

But, at least for a time, we WERE awarded "Regular" military medals.  My question is not whether a parallel system of awards is better or worse, but why a parallel system exists in the first place.

The only advantage I could see is that members of the AF would recognize ribbons at a glance.  Right now, CAP officers wearing ribbons cannot be "Read" by AF folk, because they can't tell a Silver Medal of Valor from a bag of groceries.  Having AF standard ribbons would have more meaning in that context, at least.

[James Shaw]

A new award for your consideration!