New Squadron Patch Advice

[Eclipse]

Two more tweaks, one with the star moving, one with the prop shield (both where my map says Morehead is).

[BlueLakes1]

Having designed unit patches and not a small number of other CAP graphics, I can appreciate the effort you probably put into this, and I commend you for sticking to your wing's heraldry guidelines.
Still though, It's way crowded.  The motto might as well be "eviscero equinum" because the P51 looks like it is going to disembowel the horse.  Gives a new meaning to Vertical Stab.    You can't tell it's a P51 either.

All in all, neither mustang tells anything about your unit, nor do they speak to the motto.  Not sayin they shouldn't be there, but I'd like to see this emblem again once the design elements and the colors have been reworked some.

Well, and if you're trying to stick with the "Air Force Way", you wouldn't want to depict a specific type of aircraft anyway, be it a P-51, a T-34, or a C-182.

[Bear Walling]

Morehead is down, just a hair....

Looks great otherwise!!! Still love the motto!

I downloaded Photoshop CS3 from Adobe... I can't figure out how to use the dang thing.

Again, thanks so much.

[Eclipse]

Morehead is down, just a hair....

Looks great otherwise!!! Still love the motto!

I downloaded Photoshop CS3 from Adobe... I can't figure out how to use the dang thing.

Again, thanks so much.

Roger on moving the marker - star, prop or other?

As far as Photoshop, it took me about a year while supporting a graphics design / web house to get fairly proficient with it, and then about 2-3 years of use from there, and I'm still just an advanced beginner.

If you take the time, you won't be sorry.

[Bear Walling]

You wouldn't think something so simple would be such a hard decision...

I think I like the prop better.

Other than that it's perfect! I appologize for being such a "stitch nazi".

Any chance I can get you to make a subdued one for me? You dont have too... Just asking. I am already in your debt.

[Eclipse]

Once we finalize the design, chaning the colors to the subdued equivalents is no problem.

[Bear Walling]

ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLRIGHTY THEN   

[tdavidson]

I thought that there was no wear of patches on blues or is that just a wing decision? Because everywhere I've been I have never seen any patches on the blues uniform maybe just some clarification on that would be awesome.

P.S. my first post   ; D

[brasda91]

I thought that there was no wear of patches on blues or is that just a wing decision? Because everywhere I've been I have never seen any patches on the blues uniform maybe just some clarification on that would be awesome.

P.S. my first post   ; D

You are correct

Removal of Wing/Region/National Patch. Effective 15 March 2006, Wing/Region/National patches are no longer worn on the AF-style light blue shirt/blouse
or any AF-style blue outer garments (light weight jacket, pullover sweater, all weather coat, etc.) Wing/Region/National patches are now optional on BDUs, flight suits, CAP field and utility uniforms. Wing patches must be removed from AF-style garments by 1 August 2006

[Pylon]

P.S. my first post   ; D

...and welcome! 

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Actually, among other things, the AF policy on unit emblems (they're not called "patches" except casually) is that:
-- they don't use existing emblems, or the parts thereof;
-- they don't depict "games of chance," and
-- they don't depict realistic aircraft.
AF unit emblems should also include Air Force blue and gold, incidentally.

CAP policy on abbreviating units is to say "Cadet Sq," "Comp Sq" or "Sr Sq." So on the Eagle emblem, that bottom rocker should say "Eagle Comp Sq."

All that said, the version of the Eagle emblem with the star on the map is more appropriate.

I have a sneaking suspicion the eagle's head was lifted from somewhere else? (I'm thinking the NFL for some reason.)

[Eclipse]

CAP policy on abbreviating units is to say "Cadet Sq," "Comp Sq" or "Sr Sq." So on the Eagle emblem, that bottom rocker should say "Eagle Comp Sq."

Cite please...

I have a sneaking suspicion the eagle's head was lifted from somewhere else? (I'm thinking the NFL for some reason.)

He's already said exactly where it came from.

[alamrcn]

-- they don't depict "games of chance," and
-- they don't depict realistic aircraft.

Ooops! OOOPS!! 

The other two guidlines mentioned - parts of existing emblems and blue/gold colors - are broken VERY frequently by USAF units. At least this patch is running at 50%, heh, although that shade of blue is questionable...

-Ace

[Bear Walling]

I have a sneaking suspicion the eagle's head was lifted from somewhere else? (I'm thinking the NFL for some reason.)

"Beaker" the Eagle is used with permission from Morehead State University Athletic Department.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

CAP policy on abbreviating units is to say "Cadet Sq," "Comp Sq" or "Sr Sq." So on the Eagle emblem, that bottom rocker should say "Eagle Comp Sq."

Cite please...

First reference I can find (gotta shoot the slow ducks) is CAPR 900-2, under squadron flags: "if abbreviations are required to shorten the name, only the following standard abbreviations for type of unit will be used: Comp Sq, Cdt Sq, Sr Sq, Gp." The "Sq" and "Gp" abbreviations are customary in the Air Force, if I'm not mistaken.

Since we're in the mood for citations, refer to AFI 84-105 to see exactly what I'm talking about. There are, indeed, Air Force squadrons that don't use the blue and gold, but the patch posted on this thread would in no way have been approved by the Air Force Historical Research Agency.

For a guide to Air Force heraldry, see http://www.afhra.af.mil/heraldry/guide.asp

One little side note while I'm throwing stuff out: Groups CAN use the shield instead of the disc, but only if they are a direct reporting unit. (Groups that report to a wing use the disc.) The shield shape identifies a flag unit, and groups aren't flag units unless they're direct reports.

As to where the eagle comes from, I stand corrected -- Mr. Walling, thanks for the note.

[Eclipse]

In this case there is no need for an abbreviation, as every unit in CAP that is not a flight or a group is a squadron.  If they were a flight, that would be a different story, and an argument could be made for the distinction to be indicated, but its still certainly not required, also, this is not a flag, which is what the reg quoted is applicable to.  You can infer what you like, but I don't see that as a standard.

As to the comment about Groups, I'm not sure where that is coming from, because the AFHRA and the very AFI you cite is pretty clear to the contrary.

This is the actual Heraldry site: http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/heraldry/heraldry.html
AFI 84-105: http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI84-105.pdf
AFI 38-101: http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI38-101.pdf

The emblem design for units must be on a circular shaped shield or disc, as illustrated in Figure 7 (See AFI 84-105, paragraph 3.4). Units with emblems on discs include named and numbered squadrons, numbered flights, and other USAF organizations that have no headquarters component.

Those organizations in the USAF having headquarters are flag bearing organizations, known as establishments, such as groups, wings, and major commands (MAJCOM). Air Force Instruction 84-105, paragraph 3.3. specifies that a USAF flag-bearing organization should display its coat of arms (i.e., emblem design) on a modified heater-shaped shield, as shown in Figure 8

2.2.7. Group. A level of command between wings and squadrons. Groups generally bring together multiple squadrons or other lower echelon units to provide a broader capability. For instance, a mission support group pulls together several squadrons in a variety of areas to provide a full spectrum mission support capability. A group is generally a tactical echelon without significant staff support. A group usually has two or more subordinate units.

2.2.7.1. Dependent Group. A dependent group is a mission, maintenance, mission support, medical, or large functional unit (e.g., communications) that encompasses a number of related squadrons to provide the specified capability to a parent wing. Such groups may possess small supporting staff elements, such as standardization and evaluation or quality control, that are organized as sections.

2.2.7.2. Independent Group. An independent group has the same functions and responsibilities as a like-type wing but its scope and size do not warrant wing-level designation and associated overhead costs.

CAP Groups fall squarely within the 2.2.7 definition, (and pretty close to 2.2.7.1 within what CAP is/ does), and there is no indication anywhere that a "Group" must be a direct-reporting command to be considered a "flag unit".

MFD - my continued apologies for not getting your deal completed, I've had some things come up, CAP and otherwise, but you're still high on my list.

[Bear Walling]

Thats alright, work before pleasure. Or in this case, work before designing. Don't worry about it bro, I've got all the time in the world.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Eclipse, whoever you are -- I stand corrected, though you're swatting mosquitoes with sheets of plywood now.