Wearing jump wings/medic badges on USAF uniform

[Orville_third]

OK. A squadron member earned his jump wings and cpombat medic badge in the US Army. Would he be permitted to wear both of them on his USAF-style uniform (I know, not the corporate...) or on his BDU? Would he be permitted to wear those two badges along with his CAP pilot's wings?
In addition, would he be permitted to wear the USAF Enlisted Medical Badge as the equivalent of his army training?

[Eclipse]

He's going to have to pick one of those, and it would be in lieu of a CAP GT badge or equivalent.

[Hawk200]

In addition, would he be permitted to wear the USAF Enlisted Medical Badge as the equivalent of his army training?

The Combat Medical Badge and the USAF enilisted medical badge have completely different criteria. They're not interchangeable as far as skillsets go.

The CMB is authorized for wear on CAP uniforms anyway (Table 6-5, CAPM 39-1), so "exchange" of the badge isn't necessary.

Edit: Should have mentioned the authorization doesn't apply to corporate uniforms.

[DBlair]

He can't wear two badges + wings. A total of two badges may be worn. Thus, he will need to pick which to wear.

[Duke Dillio]

He's going to have to pick one of those, and it would be in lieu of a CAP GT badge or equivalent.

I don't think this is quite right...

AFI 36-2903 states that the Parachutist Badge is not an aeronautical badge but it does take precedence over other badges... (Table 5.2 Note 2)

It is my opinion that based on the AFI and CAP regulations, he/she could wear the Parachutist Badge and a GT badge.  YMMV

[Hawk200]

I don't think this is quite right...

AFI 36-2903 states that the Parachutist Badge is not an aeronautical badge but it does take precedence over other badges... (Table 5.2 Note 2)

That is right. The Air Force changed that while I was still in. The parachutist badge used to be classed as aeronautical, and was mandatory. Not really sure why it was changed, but it was during the McPeak era.

It is my opinion that based on the AFI and CAP regulations, he/she could wear the Parachutist Badge and a GT badge.  YMMV

That's an option as well. This member has a few options.

I think part of the confusion is the member is coming from the Army and is wondering what is authorized for wear, but isn't aware of what can be worn at one time. The Army allows up to five badges at once. CAP only allows two such badges at a time.

In a CAP uniform, if the individual chooses to wear pilot wings, only one additional badge may be worn. The choice is which one.

[Eclipse]

It is my opinion that based on the AFI and CAP regulations, he/she could wear the Parachutist Badge and a GT badge.  YMMV

The mileage doesn't vary for anyone.

On a CAP uniform you're allowed one aeronautical badge (wings), and one "other" (GT, military specialty, etc. (The exception being pilots who wear both CAP and military wings).

The USAF doesn't wear anything on its pockets, and you've already asserted that jump wings are not an "aeronautical rating", so..

CAP wings.  That's one.

GT=EMT=Jump="other military badge".

Pick two and move on.

(In other threads we've already established through regulations and KB articles that the EMT badge is not worn as well as the GT badge.  They are both considered specialty badges and you wear one or the other.)

[N Harmon]

On a CAP uniform you're allowed one aeronautical badge (wings), and one "other" (GT, military specialty, etc. (The exception being pilots who wear both CAP and military wings).

Okay, so after spending a little while searching CAPtalk I still have not found where this is established in regulations. I've also searched the knowledgebase and not found any mention there either.

The only supporting evidence I can find in CAPM 39-1 is section 6-5 and table 6-3 item 4 which describe the placement of insignia on the white aviator shirt. Section 6-6, and table 6-4 do not specify the same restriction. In fact, table 6-4 it specifically specifies a limit of one aviation badge but fails to specify any limit for specialty badges. And the note at the bottom of table 6-3 is missing from the bottom of table 6-4.

Help?

[MIKE]

It's in the tables, inferred in the text.  This applies to CAP badges and when mixing with authorized military badges.  If it's two authorized military badges then it's IAW AFI 36-2903.

[N Harmon]

It's in the tables, inferred in the text.  This applies to CAP badges and when mixing with authorized military badges.  If it's two authorized military badges then it's IAW AFI 36-2903.

Really? Because it seems to infer the opposite to me. That unless otherwise noted, certain items in the tables are singular when only one should be worn (ie name tape), and plural when multiple can be worn (ie badges). Otherwise noted are aviation badges and NCSA patches where the regulation specifically says only one can be worn.

Also, why would the manual specifically prohibit multiple non-aviation badges on the aviator shirt if that was already a no-go?

[Eclipse]

It's in the tables, inferred in the text.  This applies to CAP badges and when mixing with authorized military badges.  If it's two authorized military badges then it's IAW AFI 36-2903.

Really?

See table 6-2, page 108-109 for badge placement instructions and limitations.  There's a few other places in diagrams, etc., that indicated differences between corporate and USAF-Style.

2. A maximum of four earned badges may be worn on all blue service uniforms. A maximum of two
badges are worn on the left side of the uniform above ribbons, or welt of pocket if ribbons are not
worn.

As we've said, with the exception of doubling up on an aviation insignia, you get one pointy one, and one roundy one.   But its never more than two, or more than one of either.

Also, I don't understand why you believe table 6-5 is specific to the aviator shirt only, its not.

Badges are worn in the same position as they are worn on the Air Force uniform. If a CAP badge is
worn in the same position, the member must choose one to the exclusion of the other.

[N Harmon]

As we've said, with the exception of doubling up on an aviation insignia, you get one pointy one, and one roundy one.   But its never more than two, or more than one of either.

Sorry, I still don't see it. It says two badges, but doesn't specify one aviation badge and one specialty insignia.

Also, I don't understand why you believe table 6-5 is specific to the aviator shirt only, its not.

If you look again was referring to section 6-5, not table:

6-5. Description and Proper Placement on the Aviator Shirt with Epaulets. When wearing the aviator shirt the gray nameplate must also be worn. CAP ribbons, CAP aviation badge and one additional CAP badge may be worn (specialty insignia, specialty badge or command badge).

It seems to me that such clear cut wording would be used elsewhere as well in the manual if it was to apply to other uniforms too.

[Eclipse]

I'm done.

Its there, and fairly clear.  There's a lot that's ambiguous in 39-1, this isn't one of those places.
The only place there's ever been much debate on this in my 10 years has been the EMT badge issue
and the CIB/CAB question.

Perhaps someone else can articulate this better than Mike and I.

[PHall]

Well, AFI 36-2903 does allow Air Force members to wear two speciality identification badges at a time.
The only restriction is that the one for your current AFSC must be the top one.

As for the CAPM 39-1, this subject wasn't even tought of when they wrote the reg.

[LtCol057]

You're comparing apples to oranges.  If you're wearing the uniform as a CAP member, you follow CAPM 39-1.  If you're wearing the uniform as a member of USAF, then you follow AFI 36-2903.   You have to decide which organization you're representing at the time.

[PHall]

You're comparing apples to oranges.  If you're wearing the uniform as a CAP member, you follow CAPM 39-1.  If you're wearing the uniform as a member of USAF, then you follow AFI 36-2903.   You have to decide which organization you're representing at the time.

Like I said, 39-1 does not even address this subject. I stated what was in 36-2903 just to show what Big Momma Blue does.
Nowhere did I say "this is what the AF does, so it must be okay for us to do too."

[N Harmon]

You're comparing apples to oranges.  If you're wearing the uniform as a CAP member, you follow CAPM 39-1.  If you're wearing the uniform as a member of USAF, then you follow AFI 36-2903.

But doesn't CAPM 39-1 seem to imply that in order to follow it you must also follow the Air Force instruction for certain things? Take a look at table 6-4, item 19. I paraphrase with emphasis mine:

If an individual wears the US Military Badges (see Table 6-5) then it will be regular size embroidered (regular or subdued) and it will be worn on the BDU as prescribed by the US Air Force and the following rules will be observed; only those badges authorized for wear on the USAF uniform are authorized on the CAP uniform.

Like I said, 39-1 does not even address this subject.

Well, the regulation makes it a crystal clear no-go with the aviator shirt, and states as much in multiple places throughout. Then it appears silent on similar limitations when it comes to other uniforms. So far what has been cited only establishes a limit of two badges, but does not specify one aviation and one other, except (again) in the case of the aviator shirt.

I'm not saying the regulation allows it either. Personally I do not wear any badges on my BBDU, so I have no reason to go through 39-1 line by line in search of where it says I can't. But a clear citation of it not being allowed, I would be making a fool of myself to tell some other CAP member that they can't wear two non-aviation badges on their uniform because someone on CAPtalk.net says so.

[Lt Oliv]

It's in the tables, inferred in the text.  This applies to CAP badges and when mixing with authorized military badges.  If it's two authorized military badges then it's IAW AFI 36-2903.

Really? Because it seems to infer the opposite to me. That unless otherwise noted, certain items in the tables are singular when only one should be worn (ie name tape), and plural when multiple can be worn (ie badges). Otherwise noted are aviation badges and NCSA patches where the regulation specifically says only one can be worn.

Also, why would the manual specifically prohibit multiple non-aviation badges on the aviator shirt if that was already a no-go?

Just a note to both of you gentlemen.  A text cannot "infer."  A text can "imply" and from that, you make an inference. 

[N Harmon]

Just a note to both of you gentlemen.  A text cannot "infer."  A text can "imply" and from that, you make an inference.

Thanks for pointing that out. I did get it right in #16