Westover ARB for uniforms

[sburrows]

I'd be curious to hear of others experiences at the Westover ARB BX for uniform purchase.

I'm looking at Service coat/trousers and flight suit... Vanguard has them but $$$ and I'm wondering if Westover would be a more reasonable option...

[MIKE]

IIRC they don't have much of a selection... I bought a belt when I was there for TLC and it was the last one.  You would be better off going to Hanscom.

[Cecil DP]

True, but you have to pass Westover to get to HAFB

[rjfoxx]

I found another CAP uniform supplier with $$$ less than Vanguard.  The url is:   http://www.thehock.com.  It's a Massachusetts based company.

[sburrows]

I found another CAP uniform supplier with $$$ less than Vanguard.  The url is:   http://www.thehock.com.  It's a Massachusetts based company.

The Hock is a good choice for most things CAP. However, I've found their sizes to be problematic and... it seems they've disontinued their Service Dress uniform line....

[Spike]

AAFES Catalog! 

[Stonewall]

Spike,

CAP members are not allowed to shop AAFES via catalog or online.  We're only authorized to purchase uniform items at the Military Clothing & Sales Store.  Even then, sometimes CAP members can experience a hassle when trying to make purchases.

[Spike]

Spike,

CAP members are not allowed to shop AAFES via catalog or online.  We're only authorized to purchase uniform items at the Military Clothing & Sales Store. 

When did this change?  I have always directed members to the AAFES AF Uniform Catalog. 

I thought that since this was about MCSS and AAFES.....when I said catalog, people would understand that it meant Uniform Catalog.  I assumed, thus you know what that makes me!

[AlphaSigOU]

Flight suits and other flight clothing and equipment is considered organizational issue clothing and is not sold at an AAFES MCSS. You might get lucky and find Nomex flight gloves but those are widely available commercially.

Stonewall is correct - we cannot shop online at the AAFES website unless one happens to be AD/Reserve/Guard or retired. They use DEERS (Defense Enrollment Eligibility Reporting System) to verify ID. Not on DEERS - no go. And he's also correct about AAFES clerks giving us the first, second and third degree when buying at the MCSS. Most bases now include the MCSS as part of the BX - I know Nellis and Laughlin do. Randolph MCSS is in a separate building.

You can order via phone, but you must be pre-registered with AAFES first before they will let you order. You'll need to fax a copy of your CAP ID. The AAFES uniform items catalog can be requested but they prefer that only units and not individuals do so.

[davidsinn]

The AAFES uniform items catalog can be requested but they prefer that only units and not individuals do so.

How do I go about this?

[AlphaSigOU]

The AAFES uniform items catalog can be requested but they prefer that only units and not individuals do so.

How do I go about this?

Quoth CAPM 39-1 para 1-8c:

c. AAFES AFMCSS Mail-Order Outlets. In the event a clothing sales store is not convenient to
the member, purchases may be made by mail order. Mail orders should be submitted on an individual
basis using AAFES Form 4150-134, if available. A supply of mail order requisition forms, a current
price list, and pertinent information concerning mail order sales are contained in the Army and Air Force
Exchange Service Military Clothing Mail Order Catalog. Commanders of remotely located units not
having access to an Air Force clothing store may request limited quantities of the catalog for use at unit
level from Headquarters AAFES (PD-U), PO Box 660202, Dallas TX 75266-0202, indicating
appropriate unit mailing address and number of catalogs needed. Catalogs will be distributed to units
only, not to individuals.

I know there was a post ages ago denoting the procedure on how to order by phone; but in case the search function comes up with nothing here's a copy of the procedure, which I saved. I think Stonewall was the one who came up with this, but I'll give proper credit where credit is due if they wave the high sign online.

AAFES ACCESS FOR CAP MEMBERS

CAP members have purchase privileges at AAFES as well as base exchanges and clothing sales. We are ONLY authorized to purchase uniform items through AAFES. The same goes for base exchanges and clothing sales. The rules are a bit different if you are stationed on a respective base, either temporarily or permanently. When in doubt, read the regs or consult your wing's LO.

Full privileges:

Active Duty Military
Military Retirees
Reserves
National Guard personnel
Department of State Officials serving in foreign countries
and dependents of the above

Restricted privileges:

ROTC
Foreign Officers
Civil Air Patrol
Coast Guard Auxiliary

It is correct that we are not authorized to purchase items online. Sales must be done manually, via telephone or fax. I recommend direct phone call. Your best bet is to call them and request a catalog, or if you are near an AAFES store or base exchange, just run in and request one. Each service has their own catalog.

In most cases, military clothing runs smaller than civilian clothing, if for no other reason than the cuts are usually tapered, so you can almost bet you'll need at least one size larger than an equivalent item from Target. However similar items between services are usually identical or close enough to use as a gauge (example, a USN wheel cap can be used to size your head for a USAF wheel cap, likewise service coats, etc.). So if you don't have a USAF AAFES store near you, but you do have a NAVEx store, you can at least try things on before you order them.

Any AAFES store should be able to order anything from the AAFES inventory, as well as do your alterations. Few civilian tailors will hook you up on a military dress jacket as well as an AAFES or base exchange tailor who does 20 a week. And the NAVEx's will generally have no issue doing alterations for you on a jacket you bring in - our people up here do it at Naval Station Great Lakes all the time.

Another thing many people don't know is that AAFES can custom order blouses and other parts if your sizes are outside the norm. I have personally ordered custom-made USAF blouses through the Scott AFB AAFES store, as they did not carry 19-1/2" neck, 37" sleeves. It took a couple of weeks, but the ladies down there were great and hand-held the order for me.

And to that issue, for goodness sake, be courteous! Once you know the 1-2-3, it's pretty straightforward, but it depending on what you order and from where, like anything else there may be hiccups, and you have to hand-hold this a little more than you might prefer. I've heard more scuttle lately about CAP people acting like Alpha-Hotel's to AAFES and Vanguard, which isn't going to make it any EASIER for us. Remember, the operator does not know the whole history of the CAP-USAF relationship, etc. we are just one of thousands calling that day.

Ok, enough of that...

Here's AAFES's site: http://www.aafes.com/

You will not be able to login unless you are a member of the military, retired, etc., but you can get the phone numbers you'll need from there. Bear in mind these are standard colors, styles, etc.  Every officer in the USAF wears the same jacket - the ability to "browse" doesn't have a lot of use in this case.

Call 1-800-527-2345, and ask the operator for assistance in setting up a CAP purchasing account. For a long time, they would refer you to "Rosie" who was the operator who handled the manual CAP transactions. The first purchase takes the longest - once you are in the system, things will go much smoother.

Whether you wind up talking direct to Rosie, or to someone else, you will need to fax a letter into AAFES explaining your status as a CAP member. The letter will need to include your full name, address, SSN#, CAPID, grade, home unit, etc. Make sure you are clear form the operator on the requirements of the letter.

On the bottom of the letter you will need to include a copy of your CAP ID, and a photo ID, usually a driver's license. Make sure they are legible.

Follow up in a day or so that the letter was received and that you are good to go. Obviously this is something you should do in advance of the need. Don't expect to call a week before your dining out to order your Mess Dress, and then get cranky when it takes "too long". Also, bear in mind that we are at war, and some items are in short supply all over.

From here you should be able to place your order(s). The more information you have regarding part number, size, color (i.e. 1620 vs 1625, etc.), will makes things easier. I have found the AAFES people very helpful and knowledgeable about their PRODUCTS, however do not expect them to know AFI 36-2903, let alone CAPM 39-1, so don't ask for advice regarding regs, etc.

Once you are done with the order, invariably the operator (unless its "Rosie"), will request credit card info, etc., and then reach a point where they try and close the order and find they can't because you are not military.

Now, I have been told, that a work-around for this is to fill in field V006 with day code "040981", this worked the last time I ordered something. If it doesn't anymore, well, systems change. That code enabled the order to be closed immediately.

If they are not able to release the order, it will go to "Rosie" for manual release. Unless she is out, she is good about getting things done. I'm sure some of you are grumbling right now about only having "one person handle CAP". But my understanding is that CAP volume into AAFES is fairly light and one person is all they need.

If the order was released by the operator, you should receive it without further intervention, if it goes to manual, I would suggest calling back and checking on it in a day or so.

As I said, I have also, in the past, called AAFES stores directly and ordered things through the store, shipped direct.

Walking you through this process makes it seem more complicated than it really is. Dot the "I's", cross the "T's" and be a little patient and this will not be a big deal.

While we may be authorized to shop the MCSS, be aware the civilian clerk may not be familiar with CAP ID or uniforms and may question your eligibility to purchase. Most times you don't see that problem but don't be the Alpha Hotel who screws it up for everyone. You can only use the BX and ancillary facilities (NOT the commissary or Class Six) if you are on base for an authorized CAP activity with an appropriate MSA (military support authorization) Keep the MSA on your person at all times and be prepared to show it along with ID if asked, especially if the FPCON on base gets jacked up.

[Stonewall]

Also, CAP is not authorized to buy non-uniform items at the MCSS.  On more than a dozen ocassions throughout the years, I've had cadets tell me they were told they couldn't buy gear (rucksacks, web gear, poncho liners) at MCSS.  Which is correct, they are not allowed to.  But some times the clerk either won't know or won't care.

We had a great relationship with the MCSS manager on Ft. Belvoir and actually told her staff to let us buy whatever we wanted.  I just loved it when the cadets had berets, boonies, face paint and Mark II Gerber knives in their basket...made me so proud 

[sburrows]

Thanks to all who responded.

I called AAFES today and didn't get a chance to speak to Rosa (not Rosie- perhaps I mi-heard).
However, the person on the phone did give me the same information as what is posted above in terms of faxing a letter.

I will follow-up in a few days.

Question- there was mention of 'browsing' the items so that you can see what you are ordering and get the numbers.
I can't seem to get registered online or even browse without registering. Any suggestions?
What am I missing?

[Eclipse]

Thanks to all who responded.

I called AAFES today and didn't get a chance to speak to Rosa (not Rosie- perhaps I mi-heard).
However, the person on the phone did give me the same information as what is posted above in terms of faxing a letter.

I will follow-up in a few days.

Question- there was mention of 'browsing' the items so that you can see what you are ordering and get the numbers.
I can't seem to get registered online or even browse without registering. Any suggestions?
What am I missing?

You're not missing anything - you won't be able to get online access, however if you PM with an email I'll send you a .pdf of an older AAFES catalog that has the numbers, etc.

[Eclipse]

Also, CAP is not authorized to buy non-uniform items at the MCSS. 

Privileges. The following privileges are accorded under the conditions specified and upon the presentation of the credentials stated:

a. Civil Air Patrol cadets and senior members are authorized to purchase at any time articles of uniform which are authorized for wear by Civil Air Patrol directives. When purchasing articles of uniform, members will be identified by the official Civil Air Patrol membership card which must be current.

b. Members of the Civil Air Patrol on an official CAP activity are authorized to purchase any exchange item, except for State tax-free items, at the exchange where occupying government quarters. To make purchases of other than uniform items, members will be identified by their Civil Air Patrol membership card, USAF transportation authorization or military support authorization, and evidence that they are occupying government quarters on a military installation. (Evidence of occupation of government quarters will usually be furnished by the billeting officer.)

Yes, this is a CAP reg, however see below for the corresponding USAF/Army authority.

This regulation states the Army and Air Force Exchange privileges authorized Civil Air Patrol senior and cadet members by joint Air Force Regulation 147-14 and Army Regulation 60-20. These two regulations will be, referred to whenever it is necessary to quote the source of authority for exchange privileges since this CAP regulation is for information purposes only with regard to these privileges.

At stated this does not extend to a Commissary, and common sense is the key here - walk in and buy a set of BDU's, some ribbon racks and a backpack, no problem.  Try and buy 5 flat screens, you deserve to be shown the door.

[AlphaSigOU]

The AAFES joint regs have now changed. It's now AR 215-8/AFI 34-211(I).

Another CAP manual that needs to be updated, at the very least to refer to the current AR/AFI.

As for State tax-free items, it's pretty obvious: No sales of tobacco and no Class Six (liquor, beer and wine), unless you are active duty, reserve, Guard or retired. And don't buy a load of items intending them to be resold outside the wire.

There will always be some ya-hoo who'll try and do that at any CAP activity and you can bet that gets back to the CAP activity director real quick.

[vento]

Thanks to all who responded.

I called AAFES today and didn't get a chance to speak to Rosa (not Rosie- perhaps I mi-heard).
However, the person on the phone did give me the same information as what is posted above in terms of faxing a letter.

When I called AAFES, I was told that Ms. Debra Nichols in nowadays in charge of Civil Air Patrol items, her extension number is 56641.

I've received the catalog in the mail in about a week, and I've since placed two orders with the customer service rep who answered the phone without any problems. Credit card charges went thru just fine.

The only weird thing is that AAFES told me that both the dress uniform coat (the trousers are available) and the flight cap are not available and not even possible to back order at this time. Both times they suggested for me to call back by mid-May and try again.

[RADIOMAN015]

I'd be curious to hear of others experiences at the Westover ARB BX for uniform purchase.

I'm looking at Service coat/trousers and flight suit... Vanguard has them but $$$ and I'm wondering if Westover would be a more reasonable option...

Westover is a Category C BX, which means that it is a smaller size bx.  They seem to run out of everything anyone needs (but have plenty of mechandise stock that no one wants .)  Whether it's uniforms that are a common size or something that is suppose to be on sale bx wide, they don't seem to have it.  BTW I've been told by those in the know that there's NO more BDU items there, it's all the new ACU's.   On the uniform items it may not be there fault in the first place because there might be procurement issues.

The BX staff are all very good people and will be willing to help you.  BUT I agree that Hanscom would be the better place to go because it is a Category A BX, with a fairly large active duty AF force to support.  So I would expect to see more uniforms (items) available. (but I might be wrong).
RM     

[jimmydeanno]

Westover is a Category C BX, which means that it is a smaller size bx. 

That must make the Pease ANGB BX a Category W.  I think we had portable trailers in High School larger.  They sell no uniform items (only common badges, belts and a few ribbons).  Half is alcohol and cigarettes, the other half is a choice of 2 digital camera and the newest AF t-shirt.  Ug...

[PHall]

Westover is a Category C BX, which means that it is a smaller size bx. 

That must make the Pease ANGB BX a Category W.  I think we had portable trailers in High School larger.  They sell no uniform items (only common badges, belts and a few ribbons).  Half is alcohol and cigarettes, the other half is a choice of 2 digital camera and the newest AF t-shirt.  Ug...

The Guard doesn't need much in the way of uniform sales, almost everything is issued through supply.

[Cecil DP]

Westover is a Category C BX, which means that it is a smaller size bx. 

That must make the Pease ANGB BX a Category W.  I think we had portable trailers in High School larger.  They sell no uniform items (only common badges, belts and a few ribbons).  Half is alcohol and cigarettes, the other half is a choice of 2 digital camera and the newest AF t-shirt.  Ug...

The Guard doesn't need much in the way of uniform sales, almost everything is issued through supply.

And Hanscom is only 45 minutes away