NCO Gray Epaulets

[BuckeyeDEJ]

The enlisted program would get a huge boost if we'd quit handing butterbars to run-of-the-mill people who walk in off the street, get fingerprinted and wait six months. You can't tell me there aren't a lot of Real Air Force people who resent the quality of some CAPers who wear officer grade.

(But I hear Level I is changing, and that's a good thing. A lot of what ECI/AFIADL/HQ AU A4/6 Course 13 gives our membership should be given to officer candidates in the first six months of membership.)

That said, it needs to be more attractive for new members to be enlisted. Maybe membership fees could be a little lower. Maybe the training required for enlisted specialties could be a little different.

Some new members should still be considered for officer grade, like pilots, doctors, chaplains and some other special appointments. Former cadets who reach certain awards get officer grade (though there's no 21-year-old who should be wearing captain's bars, I don't care if they have a Spaatz Award or not). Former military officers should wear their previous grade, as they do now.

But new members should... pardon the pun... earn their stripes. Thoughts?

[Eclipse]

Maybe membership fees could be a little lower. Maybe the training required for enlisted specialties could be a little different.

Define "enlisted specialty"... (in the context of an under-staffed, all-volunteer environment where generals still empty waste baskets, and butter bars command units).

[MIKE]

Lets not let a thread about epaulets drift into another 20 pages about what an NCO program should or shouldn't be... That horse has been thoroughly tenderized.

[DNall]

Maybe membership fees could be a little lower. Maybe the training required for enlisted specialties could be a little different.

Define "enlisted specialty"... (in the context of an under-staffed, all-volunteer environment where generals still empty waste baskets, and butter bars command units).

Sure... most local units are not under-staffed, they are over-assigned. Nowhere in the military would you ever find a unit at the 20-30-100 person level doing all its own support functions. It'd have it's primary task (fixing airplanes, pumping gas, whatever), with a couple support folks to liaise outside, but almost all the support functions would be done outside by a support unit.

In the Army for instance - let me use my unit as an example. We're an Aviation Battalion. We have a HQ Company that contains ALL the support functions for the full BN of 600 people. The line Cos & Maint Co don't each have a PAO, supply, operations, admin, etc... They have a couple people that coordinate support from the HHC shops to take care of the soldiers in their actually functional unit. That's how the military works.

In CAP we expect every line unit out in the field to do all the support for themselves, rather than relying on specialized support shops at the GP or WG level.

So where does an NCO fit in? They fit at the Sq level, cause almost everything that should be going on there is enlisted work, and they fit in those support shops doing specialized work. The problem isn't NCOs, it's our officer side is all jacked up.

Lets not let a thread about epaulets drift into another 20 pages about what an NCO program should or shouldn't be... That horse has been thoroughly tenderized.

And I apologize, that's kind of my fault. Id on't see the point of making a big deal over NCO insignia when it applies to 60 people of a 50k person national org, and when the program isn't defined so shows no signs of massive growth in our future. This thread right here is pretty much more effort than I think the issue deserves before those other higher programming requirements are addressed. I think a simple imperfect compromise solution is fine for the uniform issue until that happens. When they are actually up to speed, then by all means we can have a uniform discussion and make some changes in support of what I think can be a good part of the CAP program.

[Eclipse]

You can't compare compensated services with CAP, or any other volunteer organization.

The compensated services have the ability to assign and transfer people wherever they see fit, or simply not accept them
if the quota for "x" is met.

I'm as committed as anyone, but I'm not going 4-5 hours downstate just because they need my skills down there, that misses the point of CAP, which is local service in uniform.

Most military units don't even present the ability to stick around home, unless you happen to luck out with a base in your city that needs your MOS.