Wearing the flight suit to weekly meetings...

[Hawk200]

I think CAP needs to update its policy to match what USAF is doing these days.  If folks are wearing BDUS AND the activity doesn't involve fieldwork AND you are rated aircrew AND it's not some special BDU only occasion...flight suits should be fine.

I don't see a problem with wearing them in lieu of a BDU. However, after giving it some thought, I don't think it would be really appropriate to wear it on military airlifts or military orientation flights. Biggest reason is to avoid confusion with aircrew. Some of the people that have ridden along don't realize the differences.

I've found that seniors in flight suits (green or blue) is much more of a recruiting draw to potential aviation minded seniors than any other uniform.

I'll buy that.

[lordmonar]

I think CAP needs to update its policy to match what USAF is doing these days.  If folks are wearing BDUS AND the activity doesn't involve fieldwork AND you are rated aircrew AND it's not some special BDU only occasion...flight suits should be fine.

I don't see a problem with wearing them in lieu of a BDU. However, after giving it some thought, I don't think it would be really appropriate to wear it on military airlifts or military orientation flights. Biggest reason is to avoid confusion with aircrew. Some of the people that have ridden along don't realize the differences.

The regulations already forbid you to wear CAP flight suits when on military flights and O-rides.  However.....when USAF pilots fly as paxs....they wear flight suits and there is no confusion.

[JC004]

The regulations already forbid you to wear CAP flight suits when on military flights and O-rides.  However.....when USAF pilots fly as paxs....they wear flight suits and there is no confusion.

Wouldn't want that Cessna 172 pilot taking over the controls of the C-5 and thinking he can fly it   :angel:   

[Slim]

The regulations already forbid you to wear CAP flight suits when on military flights and O-rides.  However.....when USAF pilots fly as paxs....they wear flight suits and there is no confusion.

Wouldn't want that Cessna 172 pilot taking over the controls of the C-5 and thinking he can fly it   :angel:   

Or more along the lines of "In the event of an emergency, please turn to the nearest zipper suited sun god for further instructions."

As far as wearing them to meetings, BTDT, don't mind it either way.

[JC004]

The regulations already forbid you to wear CAP flight suits when on military flights and O-rides.  However.....when USAF pilots fly as paxs....they wear flight suits and there is no confusion.

Wouldn't want that Cessna 172 pilot taking over the controls of the C-5 and thinking he can fly it   :angel:   

Or more along the lines of "In the event of an emergency, please turn to the nearest zipper suited sun god for further instructions."

As far as wearing them to meetings, BTDT, don't mind it either way.

Shh.  Let me have my little fantasies.   

[Stonewall]

As far as wearing them to meetings, BTDT, don't mind it either way.

You had me at "hello"... you had me at "hello.."

[Slim]

As far as wearing them to meetings, BTDT, don't mind it either way.

You had me at "hello"... you had me at "hello.."

Ok, dude.....no more pain meds for you. 

Anyone quoting "Jerry McGuire" and/or Kenny Chesney songs can't handle it.  What did you do, anyway?  L1 compression fractures don't just happen.

[Hawk200]

I think CAP needs to update its policy to match what USAF is doing these days.  If folks are wearing BDUS AND the activity doesn't involve fieldwork AND you are rated aircrew AND it's not some special BDU only occasion...flight suits should be fine.

I don't see a problem with wearing them in lieu of a BDU. However, after giving it some thought, I don't think it would be really appropriate to wear it on military airlifts or military orientation flights. Biggest reason is to avoid confusion with aircrew. Some of the people that have ridden along don't realize the differences.

The regulations already forbid you to wear CAP flight suits when on military flights and O-rides.  However.....when USAF pilots fly as paxs....they wear flight suits and there is no confusion.

USAF pilots flying as pax have aircrew training. They can actually assist in the event of an emergency. Even an F-16 pilot has more of a clue. CAP personnel have not received that kind of training in the course of their normal duties. BDU's are fine, they don't need a flightsuit.

[lordmonar]

USAF pilots flying as pax have aircrew training. They can actually assist in the event of an emergency. Even an F-16 pilot has more of a clue. CAP personnel have not received that kind of training in the course of their normal duties. BDU's are fine, they don't need a flightsuit.

No justification enough.  Also remember that missile crews were flight suits too.  And they can wear them while they are passengers.  And they have no more training in air crew emergencies than your average CAP personnel.

The no Flight Suits on USAF aircraft is just pilots protecting their own.  It is the same reason why CAP still can't wear the brown A-2.  It is the same reason why non CEA (Career Enlisted Aviators) can't wear flight suits as their duty uniform....even though they fly in an aircraft as part of their duties (Such as the AWAC and NEACP maintenance guys).

It has nothing....I say again....nothing to do with reducing confusion and/or identifying who can or cannot help in an emergency.

[Hawk200]

USAF pilots flying as pax have aircrew training. They can actually assist in the event of an emergency. Even an F-16 pilot has more of a clue. CAP personnel have not received that kind of training in the course of their normal duties. BDU's are fine, they don't need a flightsuit.

No justification enough.  Also remember that missile crews were flight suits too.  And they can wear them while they are passengers.  And they have no more training in air crew emergencies than your average CAP personnel.

The no Flight Suits on USAF aircraft is just pilots protecting their own.  It is the same reason why CAP still can't wear the brown A-2.  It is the same reason why non CEA (Career Enlisted Aviators) can't wear flight suits as their duty uniform....even though they fly in an aircraft as part of their duties (Such as the AWAC and NEACP maintenance guys).

It has nothing....I say again....nothing to do with reducing confusion and/or identifying who can or cannot help in an emergency.

OK, I'm not going to argue from that point, you've made up your mind.

However, you can explain to me why you think that CAP members on military aircraft need to wear a flightsuit. I'm not seeing any reason why they have to. We have our own place for it. What's wrong with BDU's?

[lordmonar]

However, you can explain to me why you think that CAP members on military aircraft need to wear a flightsuit. I'm not seeing any reason why they have to. We have our own place for it. What's wrong with BDU's?

Oops...you got me all wrong...I don't think we need to or even should wear flight suits or BDUs on military airlift.  We should wear blues.  I was just pointing out that the USAF's reasons for not allowing us to wear flight suits has nothing to do with being able to help out in an emergency.

[Cecil DP]

The word uniform means everyone wears the same thing. If the uniform of the day is CAP blue it means everyone wears the CAP blue uniform (as long as they meet the height/weight specs). The flight suits should only be worn when engaged in flying. I had a habit when assigned to CENTCOM of asking officers in flight suits "How was your flight" Not one had flown because there are no aircraft assigned to the HQ. Almost got an Art 15, because an O-6 decided I was being disrespectful. lickily I worked for a BG who had writen the uniform regs for CENTCOM and was able to point out that flights suits were not authorized.

[Sgt. Savage]

The lack of a UOD makes the whole point kinda moot. When you have greys and polos, BDU's, BBDU's, and White Aviators at the same meeting, why not let the Flight Suit guy have his uniform too. Fact is, I'll be wearing my bag tonight, just because I've already put 40 hours in this week and haven't had time to press a BDU.

[Psicorp]

However, you can explain to me why you think that CAP members on military aircraft need to wear a flightsuit. I'm not seeing any reason why they have to. We have our own place for it. What's wrong with BDU's?

Oops...you got me all wrong...I don't think we need to or even should wear flight suits or BDUs on military airlift.  We should wear blues.  I was just pointing out that the USAF's reasons for not allowing us to wear flight suits has nothing to do with being able to help out in an emergency.

Blues?  You do realize how greasy military aircraft are, right?   They're kept very clean, but there's grease everywhere.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The regulations already forbid you to wear CAP flight suits when on military flights and O-rides.  However.....when USAF pilots fly as paxs....they wear flight suits and there is no confusion.

Wouldn't want that Cessna 172 pilot taking over the controls of the C-5 and thinking he can fly it   :angel:   

Or more along the lines of "In the event of an emergency, please turn to the nearest zipper suited sun god for further instructions."

As far as wearing them to meetings, BTDT, don't mind it either way.

You don't want Air Force people becoming confused and thinking that they have to obey the orders of a CAP pilot in an emergency, you know.

CAP Officer:  Sergeant, the airplane is on fire!  Get out and run!

AF Sergeant:  You can't tell me what to do, you're only a CAP guy.

CAP Officer:  You're right. Good bye.

AF Sergeant:  AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

[mikeylikey]

The no Flight Suits on USAF aircraft is just pilots protecting their own.  It is the same reason why CAP still can't wear the brown A-2. 

Wow....figuring CAP guys were wearing the brown jacket in WW2, that was some years before the AF existed right?  So in reality, we should be allowed to wear something that we wore first!  Not that I care......  Heck, we are wearing an Army Jacket, AF bling on the TPU......??

[Hawk200]

However, you can explain to me why you think that CAP members on military aircraft need to wear a flightsuit. I'm not seeing any reason why they have to. We have our own place for it. What's wrong with BDU's?

Oops...you got me all wrong...I don't think we need to or even should wear flight suits or BDUs on military airlift.  We should wear blues.  I was just pointing out that the USAF's reasons for not allowing us to wear flight suits has nothing to do with being able to help out in an emergency.

My apologies, I was under the impression that you felt we should be wearing them on those flights. Personally, I don't have a problem with flightsuits being worn at the squadron or CAP activities, it's a perk of being aircrew. Aircrew quals take time, some study and dedication to achieve. But it's not necessary for those kind of activities. BDU's are fine.

Blues?  You do realize how greasy military aircraft are, right?   They're kept very clean, but there's grease everywhere.

This is the primary reasons I feel BDU's should be worn. AMC flights in past years didn't require a uniform, no reason to stick us in blues arbitrarily. I don't care to wear a uniform where it could potentially be damaged beyond serviceability, and I'm really picky about the serviceability of my blues. Considering how many times I've gotten grime on my uniform in a helicopter, I wouldn't want to wear anything close to a "dress" unifom. Not to mention, how "fresh" are you going to be after an airlift flight? I never felt that I looked "meeting worthy" after spending a few hours in a C-130. It's stupid to be wearing a "proper uniform for the activity" if you look like crap in it due to your mode of travel.

BDU's are designed to "get dirty in", and there is also the fact that you can tell your own if there is actually an incident. If there is any kind of incident, our folks would probably be the only ones in BDU's (or equivalent), so it's easy to account for them. Which is another reason why we should have distinctive insignia (although professional) on our uniforms.

[jb512]

Lots of good viewpoints on the subject.  The points I gathered:

1.  The decision rests with the CC for aircrew rated personnel.
2.  While some consider the BDU (BBDU) the only "working" uniform, others feel that the flight suit is just as durable and made to get just as dirty, even if not flying.
3.  Military aviators wear the flight suit as their uniform of the day almost all the time.
4.  While some wanted to strictly adhere to the UOD as prescribed, there are many variants as it is so one more wouldn't matter much.

I like the idea of it as a uniform option during non-blues/whites days.

[Jolt]

I've worn a flight suit to two CAP meetings and both times the meeting was right after a flight.  Our squadron is based on an airport, so we have a lot of pilots.  Our policy has always been that if you're on the flying schedule, you can wear your flight suit.  I've been given direct permission by the squadron commander before.  It's usually not a big deal, though, because the rest of the cadets are wearing BDUs, so there's not a huge contrast.

What irks me is this one senior member (that has a cadet programs role) that wears his flight suit incorrectly all the time.  He has an aerospace education badge above his name patch and I can't figure out how to tactfully ask him to remove it.  Don't worry, I know what you're thinking.  I'm not so petty that this badge affects our working relationship, though.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that I didn't spend a whole lot of money on my flight suit, just a few dollars for patches and velcro thanks to Capt Kieloch.

[Stonewall]

He has an aerospace education badge above his name patch and I can't figure out how to tactfully ask him to remove it.  Don't worry, I know what you're thinking.  I'm not so petty that this badge affects our working relationship, though.

Tell him to visit CAP Talk, we'll be glad to explain it to him.    :angel: