BDU COVER ROLLS

[trekkindave]

Ok, i know WIWAC that we always got yelled at to take the "ranger roll" out of ou BDU covers.  Does anyone know if that was an official CAP thing, or just some personal peve of the cadets in charge back then at my squadron.   I think its looks better and makes the cover look more squadred away.. something about the cover sitting down low and looking floppy just looks 8-Up to me...

[TankerT]

It is in the CAPM 39-1.  Read under the various headgear figures.  It is prohibited.

[trekkindave]

WILCO

10-Q for the info

[davedove]

Can anyone provide a picture of a cap that's been "ranger rolled?"  I'm sure I've seen one before, but I sure couldn't tell you what it looks like.

[stillamarine]

Ok, i know WIWAC that we always got yelled at to take the "ranger roll" out of ou BDU covers.  Does anyone know if that was an official CAP thing, or just some personal peve of the cadets in charge back then at my squadron.   I think its looks better and makes the cover look more squadred away.. something about the cover sitting down low and looking floppy just looks 8-Up to me...

Use starch and it won't look all floppy. Get a thin piece of cardboard, roll it into the cover to make it tight and straight, starch the living heck out of it, iron. No reason your cover can't look good.

[Flying Pig]

Here ya go.

[jimmydeanno]

^we should play caption contest with that one 

[CASH172]

His uniform is interesting to me.  He's got a ranger roll, in a DCU with a 101st Patch with Tech Sergeant Stripes.  A little interesting if you ask me.  I could understand how that works but you just don't see too much of that.

[JayT]

His uniform is interesting to me.  He's got a ranger roll, in a DCU with a 101st Patch with Tech Sergeant Sergeant Stripes.  A little interesting if you ask me.  I could understand how that works but you just don't see too much of that.

What is a cover?

[CASH172]

His uniform is interesting to me.  He's got a ranger roll, in a DCU with a 101st Patch with Tech Sergeant Sergeant Stripes.  A little interesting if you ask me.  I could understand how that works but you just don't see too much of that.

What is a cover?

Another term for your hat. 

[jimmydeanno]

His uniform is interesting to me.  He's got a ranger roll, in a DCU with a 101st Patch with Tech Sergeant Stripes.  A little interesting if you ask me.  I could understand how that works but you just don't see too much of that.

Looks like an AF TSgt assigned to the Army 101st...when in Rome...

[davedove]

Here ya go.

That's what I thought it was.  You know, I don't really like that.  I'm sure there are reasons for doing that, but it just looks sloppy to me.  I much prefer the sharp look of a regular bdu cover.

[Hawk200]

His uniform is interesting to me.  He's got a ranger roll, in a DCU with a 101st Patch with Tech Sergeant Stripes.  A little interesting if you ask me.  I could understand how that works but you just don't see too much of that.

Considering the Kestrel he's holding, he's an Army Support Weather guy. Being with 101st, probably jump qualified, too. Not a common job, but a good Joint Support one to pad your resume with.

[Stonewall]

Being with 101st, probably jump qualified, too.

101st is not a jump unit, but yes, he could be jump qualified as most of the combat weather guys I know are.

As for the Ranger Roll, it's more traditional than anything, but it shouldn't be in CAP.  It's just something a lot of guys in the Army do (or did), not sure anymore.  Very few Rangers don't do it and a few non-rangers do do it.  Not sure if it's really a big deal, but I personally don't think it's necessary, especially in CAP.  Have I done it, yes.  Do I do it, no.  Some say it looks cool, some say it looks goofy.  Members of the 101st wore mohawks in WWII.  Why?  Because it was a morale boost, offered a violent look to scare the bad guys, I don't know.  Ranger roll in CAP?  Not really something I care for.  Mostly because too many CAPers end up looking more goofy than anything.

[Hawk200]

Being with 101st, probably jump qualified, too.

101st is not a jump unit, ....

I keep forgetting that. Still amazes me, that an organization with the "Airborne" label, isn't actually Airborne. They're Air Assault, right?

[Stonewall]

Yep, it's just a traditional part of the patch.  101st Air Assault Division is how they're mostly refered to now.  But what most people don't realize is that almost every division has a LRSD/LRSU that is Airborne Qualified.  So yes, there are some jumpers in 101st.  I like 10th Mountain Div's LRS.  They'll be wearing a Ranger Tab, Airborne Tab, Mountain Tab and if they earned it, SF and Sapper.  Not sure of the regs, but I've seen 4 tabs stacked on a dude's arm before.  Kind of goofy yet kind of cool.

Sorry, back to hat crushing ranger rolling.

[alamrcn]

Sorry, back to hat crushing ranger rolling.

Might be the first time someone said "crushing" in this thred. You probably won't find a military photo of this one, but more CAP members in my area do this as apposed to the 360 roll.

I do it, knowing full well it's not reg. The hat fits my big, misshapped melon better with the front crushed. It doesn't fall off or get knocked down very easily. I like the way it looks. None of these reasons warrant breaking the reg, but luckly the people around me choose their uniform infraction battles carefully... right down to ignoring the pocket on my Hanes black t-shirt.

I think the cardboard or ice cream lid in the inner-top of the hat is more funny looking... like a little end table. What I do think is the most tacky - and might NOT even be an infraction - at rolling/folding the side edges of the bill down. I call this one the "NASCAR roll".

-Ace

[JohnKachenmeister]

I believe that back in the late 1970's or early 1980's the 101st was officially changed back to 101st Airborne Division, with a parenthetical (Air Assault).

The unit was called the 101st Air Assault Division during the Vietnam war.  That name change never sat too well with the 101st troopers.

[Flying Pig]

He is an Air Force Combat Weatherman assigned to the 101st Airborne.   You often see them with the 82nd patch also.

[jb512]

Another good way to shape up your hat:

Fashion some kind of shaper out of a sturdy material.  I use the sheet metal kind of tubing for a drier vent.  Completely soak the hat in heavy starch and then slide it down over your shaper, making sure to smooth out the wrinkles.  Tie a string to the shaper, stick it in the drier with the string hanging it against the inside of the door so that it won't move and hit high heat until it's dry.  It comes out as stiff as a board.

[Stonewall]

It comes out as stiff as a board.

Why would you want that?

[jb512]

It comes out as stiff as a board.

Why would you want that?

For the same reason that I starch my BDUs for meetings...

[Robert Hartigan]

He is an Air Force Combat Weatherman assigned to the 101st Airborne.   You often see them with the 82nd patch also.

The US Army does not have its own meteorologists. USAF and ANG meteologists are assigned as Army support. Most of the ANG weather units perform some form of Army support. As for uniforms, you may wear the unit patch while assigned and in a support role. You can really deck out your BDU's with the ACC patch, Unit patch, AFSC badge, jump wings, and then your customer's patches and tabs. I suspect that the TSgt is also airborne, air assault and most likely ranger qualified so he can wear his hat however he likes! My personal opinion is that USAF or ANG meteorlogist that support the Army are just bad ass troops! I might be a little bias though...

[Stonewall]

I suspect that the TSgt is also airborne, air assault and most likely ranger qualified so he can wear his hat however he likes!

Ranger School = allowed to roll hat?  Interesting.  Didn't know that.

Actually, if he did have a Ranger tab, he'd probably have it on with his 101st patch.

My personal opinion is that USAF or ANG meteorlogist that support the Army are just bad ass troops! I might be a little bias though...

I went to SERE with an ANG Combat Weather guy who was assigned to an NG Special Forces Group deploying to A-Stan.  He was at his second try at SERE and had already failed jump school once.  He was going again after he made it through SERE, which he did.  Not sure if he made it through jump school second time around.

There are bad-asses in all walks of life.  I've learned the hard way that just because someone has a specific job or wears a cool badge doesn't make them a bad-ass, let alone trustworthy or dependable.

For me, I think the cooks are hooah, just as the mechanics and tank drivers are.  I've seen dudes that "roll" their hat fall out of 6 mile ruck marches, while the geeky kid with zits and glasses carrying the M-60 led the way.  It's not the hat, or the way someone wears the hat; nor is it the badge on their chest or tab on their shoulder.  It's what's in their heart.

My favorite bad-ass was a platoon sergeant of mine who simply sported the EIB and Air Assault Badge.  He was meritoriously promoted by a 2-star on the spot, at NTC in Ft. Irwin for taking charge of a company and defeating a battalion, all the while he was really injured (although it was training) and his company was surrounded and out-numbered.  The 2-star was the Division Commander of the aggressors in which he defeated.  The promotion stuck as soon as he completed ANCOC.

[RogueLeader]

I went to SERE with an ANG Combat Weather guy who was assigned to an NG Special Forces Group deploying to A-Stan.  He was at his second try at SERE and had already failed jump school once.  He was going again after he made it through SERE, which he did.  Not sure if he made it through jump school second time around.

There are bad-asses in all walks of life.  I've learned the hard way that just because someone has a specific job or wears a cool badge doesn't make them a bad-ass, let alone trustworthy or dependable.

For me, I have think the cooks are hooah, just as the mechanics and tank drivers are.  I've seen dudes that "roll" their hat fall out of 6 mile ruck marches, while the geeky kid with zits and glasses carrying the M-60 led the way.  It's not the hat, or the way someone wears the hat; nor is it the badge on their chest or tab on their shoulder.  It's what's in their heart.

My favorite bad-ass was a platoon sergeant of mine who simply sported the EIB and Air Assault Badge.  He was meritoriously promoted by a 2-star on the spot, at NTC in Ft. Irwin for taking charge of a company and defeating a battalion, all the while he was really injured (although it was training) and his company was surrounded and out-numbered.  The 2-star was the Division Commander of the aggressors in which he defeated.  The promotion stuck as soon as he completed ANCOC.

Hooah

[floridacyclist]

It comes out as stiff as a board.

Why would you want that?

""I began revolution with 82 men. If I had do it again, I'd do it with 10 or 15 and absolute faith. It does not matter how small you are if you have faith and plan of action."

[Rangersigo]

My Army regulation, rolling that hat is not allowed but accepted when assigned to a Ranger Unit, and many Infantry units where the commander's are Rangers.  Her is a picture of my Ranger Graduation photo.  I am the far top left.  As you can see, most PCs are rolled.

Kurt

[SarDragon]

What I see here is rolled brims, not rolled tops. I think that is the area addressed in the regs. I have found it almost impossible to wear a round hat/cap/cover on my oval head, as do many others.

YMMV.

[Short Field]

"I began revolution with 82 men. If I had do it again, I'd do it with 10 or 15 and absolute faith. It does not matter how small you are if you have faith and plan of action."

He who shall not be named's buddy?

[Stonewall]

Found this from a Ranger School graduation...

[O-Rex]

Ranger Rolls in CAP: don't do it.

having a sharp-looking BDU Hat:

Got this tip from a Marine when I was TDY at GTMO.

Buy a USMC aluminum "cover block" at AAFES, MCS or NEX 

They are manufactured by Ken Nolan, Inc., which sells other cool stuff, but I can't find the website anymore,

or get a big coffee can, about the size of your hat (you can cut the can with metal shears, and expand it to fit  (just be careful: most CAP members aren't allowed sharp objects)

Wet or wash hat, stretch over cover block or coffee can, and if you have a 'sweater rack' for your clothes dryer, use it, or use a hair-dryer

works like a charm...

[floridacyclist]

"I began revolution with 82 men. If I had do it again, I'd do it with 10 or 15 and absolute faith. It does not matter how small you are if you have faith and plan of action."

He who shall not be named's buddy?

Exactly. Don't those severely squared-off hats remind you of him?

Ranger Rolls in CAP: don't do it.

Exactly...it is simply verboten

Got this tip from a Marine when I was TDY at GTMO.

Looking at the pics above, now we know where he got it from LOL

[Grumpy]

Another good way to shape up your hat:

Fashion some kind of shaper out of a sturdy material.  I use the sheet metal kind of tubing for a drier vent.  Completely soak the hat in heavy starch and then slide it down over your shaper, making sure to smooth out the wrinkles.  Tie a string to the shaper, stick it in the drier with the string hanging it against the inside of the door so that it won't move and hit high heat until it's dry.  It comes out as stiff as a board.

Wouldn't it be easier just to go back to the old Ridgeway?

[Grumpy]

Ranger Rolls in CAP: don't do it.

having a sharp-looking BDU Hat:

Got this tip from a Marine when I was TDY at GTMO.

Buy a USMC aluminum "cover block" at AAFES, MCS or NEX 

They are manufactured by Ken Nolan, Inc., which sells other cool stuff, but I can't find the website anymore,

or get a big coffee can, about the size of your hat (you can cut the can with metal shears, and expand it to fit  (just be careful: most CAP members aren't allowed sharp objects)

Wet or wash hat, stretch over cover block or coffee can, and if you have a 'sweater rack' for your clothes dryer, use it, or use a hair-dryer

works like a charm...

NO WONDER I HAD A HEAD ACH!  I was wearing my cover with the metal still in it!

[flyguy06]

Ok, i know WIWAC that we always got yelled at to take the "ranger roll" out of ou BDU covers.  Does anyone know if that was an official CAP thing, or just some personal peve of the cadets in charge back then at my squadron.   I think its looks better and makes the cover look more squadred away.. something about the cover sitting down low and looking floppy just looks 8-Up to me...

Believe me, soldiers like to "ranger rol" thier covers as well, and I get on to them about it. It is not authorized. People think it looks col or sets them apart which is does, which is bad. We need to be uniformed. Meaning everyone look alile

[jb512]

Another good way to shape up your hat:

Fashion some kind of shaper out of a sturdy material.  I use the sheet metal kind of tubing for a drier vent.  Completely soak the hat in heavy starch and then slide it down over your shaper, making sure to smooth out the wrinkles.  Tie a string to the shaper, stick it in the drier with the string hanging it against the inside of the door so that it won't move and hit high heat until it's dry.  It comes out as stiff as a board.

Wouldn't it be easier just to go back to the old Ridgeway?

Sure.  I just prefer to wear something that doesn't look like you used it as a snot rag in your back pocket.

[Gunner C]

The BDU cap (it's not a cover) was designed similarly to the patrol cap (PC) that was in use in some units in the 1970s/80s (mostly Ranger and SF).  The BDU cap was designed so you could put in your cargo pocket and not be crushed.  The old fatigue cap was fairly useless - the stiffener and bill would lose its shape about 3 minutes after purchase.

We used to make fun of the folks who "shaped" their PCs - it was derisively referred to as a "staff crush".  If you had time to make the hat look like that, you must have been a staff weenie somewhere rather than a combat guy.

The folks who used shapers were required to remove them, those who starched their BDU caps were sent straight to the nearest mop sink.

Times change...As one of my bosses told me "It's not how you play, it's how you look."

[jb512]

Guess times have changed.  Floppy hats and wrinkled BDUs lean more toward the "unprofessional" look.

[O-Rex]

Depends on who/where you are and what you're doing: If you're "downrange" someplace hot & sandy where bullets & bombs fly, rumpled is not a fashion-statement, just a matter of practicality.  Garrison is another matter entirely.  Good soldiers can transition from one to the other with relative ease and still keep the edge.

The "battleworn" look is not something a CAP member should even attempt.

It's about as cheesy as "There I was, WW-Squadron meeting: whining cadets to the left, complacent seniors to the right, and I was all out of Prozac. . . . ."

[Dad2-4]

And yet I've seen the roll more than once at encampment, or the ball cap crush, even seeing it mandated by cadets in charge to other cadet staff.

[jb512]

Depends on who/where you are and what you're doing: If you're "downrange" someplace hot & sandy where bullets & bombs fly, rumpled is not a fashion-statement, just a matter of practicality.  Garrison is another matter entirely.  Good soldiers can transition from one to the other with relative ease and still keep the edge.

The "battleworn" look is not something a CAP member should even attempt.

It's about as cheesy as "There I was, WW-Squadron meeting: whining cadets to the left, complacent seniors to the right, and I was all out of Prozac. . . . ."

Well of course.  Obviously out in the woods looking for plane wreckage is much different from drill and ceremony night at a meeting.

[jb512]

And yet I've seen the roll more than once at encampment, or the ball cap crush, even seeing it mandated by cadets in charge to other cadet staff.

But I don't think that is completely uncalled for, to an extent.  Obviously the ranger roll is prohibited by regulation and we don't have any cadets who have been to Ranger school (that would be basics at an encampment).  But, there are cadets who have mastered the sharp, crisp look of the hat without that extreme, and just pulling it down from the back of your head in the shape of a bowl looks like crap.

[mikeylikey]

Then there are new Wing Kings who decide "since we have Orange hats, the rules don't apply and if you went to Hawk you can Roll your orange ball cap".  I kid you not, the first email from the new PAWG CC was in regard to allowing rolling of the Orange Baseball Hats. 

Makes you think where priorities are being placed!

[Rangersigo]

Guess times have changed.  Floppy hats and wrinkled BDUs lean more toward the "unprofessional" look.

That is the irony of this.  Many who wore the uniform did so solely in a garrison environment.  The last time their boots hit the dirt, it was probably in their intital training - and more than likely only during a shortcut to the chow hall or medical clinic.

I remember that the standard for the units I served in were normally fluff and buff, unless there was a ceremony or some type of special duty that would require starch and spits.  Remember BDU stands for Battle Dress Uniform.

There is some practicality of rolling your hat, besides the look.  By crushing and.or rolling it removes the air between the head and cap, making it easier to keep on your head windy conditions.

These things only come up when some wannabee decides to emulate a unit or person that they cannot.  I remember when the Army in all their wisdom decided to give a black beret to everyone.  What a brilliant idea, take away an honored item of the Rangers and give to the masses.  That was a very solemn ceremony when we exchanged our black berets for the tan berets.

This really comes down to class envy - seen it too many times.

[mikeylikey]

^  You can have the Beret back brother.  I hate it.  I never cared for them, thought it was the worst day in the Army when they made us put them on.  Second worst day......when they made us get in ACU's and take our branch insignia off to make the enlisted folk feel better about themselves.  Third worst day (upcoming) making us get into a grey shirt with the Army Blue uniform.  I like the blues fine as they are now.

[jb512]

Guess times have changed.  Floppy hats and wrinkled BDUs lean more toward the "unprofessional" look.

That is the irony of this.  Many who wore the uniform did so solely in a garrison environment.  The last time their boots hit the dirt, it was probably in their intital training - and more than likely only during a shortcut to the chow hall or medical clinic.

I remember that the standard for the units I served in were normally fluff and buff, unless there was a ceremony or some type of special duty that would require starch and spits.  Remember BDU stands for Battle Dress Uniform.

There is some practicality of rolling your hat, besides the look.  By crushing and.or rolling it removes the air between the head and cap, making it easier to keep on your head windy conditions.

These things only come up when some wannabee decides to emulate a unit or person that they cannot.  I remember when the Army in all their wisdom decided to give a black beret to everyone.  What a brilliant idea, take away an honored item of the Rangers and give to the masses.  That was a very solemn ceremony when we exchanged our black berets for the tan berets.

This really comes down to class envy - seen it too many times.

The army should have left the black beret well enough alone and given the tan to the troops if they wanted to give everybody the warm fuzzies.

All we're saying is that you don't have to look sloppy, just because your branch tape says "civil air patrol".  There is no need for the roll in your hat, but at least make it stand up a little and be professional.

[Stonewall]

I remember when the Army in all their wisdom decided to give a black beret to everyone.  What a brilliant idea, take away an honored item of the Rangers and give to the masses.  That was a very solemn ceremony when we exchanged our black berets for the tan berets.

Back in what, 2000, when the decision was made to do this, I wrote a protest against the decision in Army Times and was published.  Still to this date, I am glad I got out of the Army (Guard at the time) before I had to wear the beret.

I was at Hunter Army Airfield last month and noticed that most people don't seem to be wearing berets anyway.  Seems most are wearing ACU hats.  And to be honest, I didn't notice whether or not folks were "rolling" them. 

[MIKE]

Off topic: Black berets are for Amour and some other mechanized units.  JMHO. [/limey]

[McClure457467]

Actually, it is up to the base/post Commander if soldiers should wear the black beret or patrol cap. My parents are in the Army and they have to wear the black beret.

[Stonewall]

Actually, it is up to the base/post Commander if soldiers should wear the black beret or patrol cap. My parents are in the Army and they have to wear the black beret.

No, it was announced last year that black berets will no longer be worn with ACUs, only in their service uniform, whatever it's called these days.

Army Times Article.

It even made the ABC News.

[Grumpy]

Actually, it is up to the base/post Commander if soldiers should wear the black beret or patrol cap. My parents are in the Army and they have to wear the black beret.

No, it was announced last year that black berets will no longer be worn with ACUs, only in their service uniform, whatever it's called these days.

Army Times Article.

It even made the ABC News.

Read the last sentence in the last paragraph.

[PHall]

Actually, it is up to the base/post Commander if soldiers should wear the black beret or patrol cap. My parents are in the Army and they have to wear the black beret.

You do realize this thread HAD been dead for five years before you posted on it, right?

[Huey Driver]

Actually, it is up to the base/post Commander if soldiers should wear the black beret or patrol cap. My parents are in the Army and they have to wear the black beret.

First impressions last here. Trying to prove a point by resurrecting a five year old uniform thread is probably one of the worst ways to jump in. Anyway, welcome!

[ol'fido]

I don't know about Ranger rolls, but when I see a starched cover, I get this vision of smoking a large cigar, having a full beard, and standing on a balcony waving to the proletariat.  "Viva la Revolution!"

[Private Investigator]

Actually, it is up to the base/post Commander if soldiers should wear the black beret or patrol cap. My parents are in the Army and they have to wear the black beret.

You do realize this thread HAD been dead for five years before you posted on it, right?

Unholy zombie thread indeed   

[lordmonar]

I don't know about Ranger rolls, but when I see a starched cover, I get this vision of smoking a large cigar, having a full beard, and standing on a balcony waving to the proletariat.  "Viva la Revolution!"

Well.....you know the funny part about that......El Presidente was playing WANNA-BE.  Everyone (not the USAF) back in the 50s-60s wanted those stove pipe hats to be sharp and tall.

So just remember that what goes around...comes around....if everyone in the Army started ranger rolling their patrol caps....the rangers would just pick some other "cool  thing" that set them apart.

[Grumpy]

I don't know about Ranger rolls, but when I see a starched cover, I get this vision of smoking a large cigar, having a full beard, and standing on a balcony waving to the proletariat.  "Viva la Revolution!"

Well.....you know the funny part about that......El Presidente was playing WANNA-BE.  Everyone (not the USAF) back in the 50s-60s wanted those stove pipe hats to be sharp and tall.

So just remember that what goes around...comes around....if everyone in the Army started ranger rolling their patrol caps....the rangers would just pick some other "cool  thing" that set them apart.

As I recall, they were called Ridgeways after General Ridgeway.