wearing Mess Dress on Cruise Ship formal night

[titanII]

A single CAP member, wearing mess dress in an uncertain environment, such as a cruise ship, mostly says, IMHO, "look at me".

[Devil's Advocate] And what about the small handful of people in the military wearing their mess dress in an environment where that is certainly not the norm? What does that say? It's not that different, is it?
[/Devil's Advocate]

[SarDragon]

Not a lot, but they do have more of an entitlement to do so. I'm not all that much in favor of AD folks doing it, either, particularly in a cruise ship environment. It just doesn't seem "right".

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Is it appropriate to wear an American military uniform aboard a ship under another nation's flag? That flag makes the ship sovereign territory of that nation, does it not? And since many, if not most, cruise ships aren't registered as American vessels, wouldn't that render the wear of a uniform inappropriate on multiple levels?

[FlyTiger77]

I'm not all that much in favor of AD folks doing it, either, particularly in a cruise ship environment. It just doesn't seem "right".

What he said.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

[titanII]

I'm not all that much in favor of AD folks doing it, either, particularly in a cruise ship environment. It just doesn't seem "right".

What he said.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

+1

[MIKE]

Does Mustang Survival make formal wear... that might be the smarter option. 

[Thrashed]

Who would even own CAP mess dress?

[Pylon]

Who would even own CAP mess dress?

Just trolling, are we?  Make it to any Wing or Region Conference and you'll see plenty of members in it.

[SarDragon]

Who would even own CAP mess dress?

If I was willing to shave, I'd have one in a heart beat. (Cuz I make it look good!)

[spacecommand]

If I could budget for one I would too.  Shoulder boards, mini medals, and the entire mess dress itself is not one cheap uniform.

[PHall]

If I could budget for one I would too.  Shoulder boards, mini medals, and the entire mess dress itself is not one cheap uniform.

So don't buy it all at once. Try to find a used Mess Dress and then buy the other stuff one piece at a time.
It lessens the "sticker shock".

[DrJbdm]

Is it appropriate to wear an American military uniform aboard a ship under another nation's flag? That flag makes the ship sovereign territory of that nation, does it not? And since many, if not most, cruise ships aren't registered as American vessels, wouldn't that render the wear of a uniform inappropriate on multiple levels?

   No, the ships themselves are not owned by the country that they are registered under. Just as registering your vehicle in a different county then the one you live in would make it make it that counties vehicle. In this case, the ships are owned and operated by Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines or Disney Cruise Lines or Carnival Cruise Lines, ect., in other words they are all owned by corporations.

   These are American companies, based out of the U.S. but they choose to build and register their vessels with different countries because of the tax and inspection issues. It all comes down to money; it makes more fiscal sense to register the ships with Finland or Panama or some other country then with the US. 

[ColonelJack]

Who would even own CAP mess dress?

If I was willing to shave, I'd have one in a heart beat. (Cuz I make it look good!)

Add a kilt to it, and make it look GREAT!   

Jack

[flyboy53]

Table 1-1 doesn't apply here, it specifically applies to CAP business.

Table 2-1, Line 1, page 46:

Mess Dress:

For senior member officers and NCOs only. Worn for social functions of a general or official nature (black-tie affairs); a tuxedo is civilian equivalent. Semi-fitted; sleeves will end approximately 1/4 inch from heel of the thumb; single-breasted, straight back with
three CAP crest, USAF coat of arms, or USAF "Wing and Star" buttons diagonally on both sides and a two-button length chain as a
front closure; satin shawl collar and lapels; center back length will be 3 1/2 inches to 4 inches below natural waistline. Senior member officers wear 1/2-inch wide dark blue, sleeve braid 3 inches from end of the sleeve. General officers wear 1 1/2 inch wide
sleeve braid 3 inches from end of sleeve. Jacket and trousers will match in shade and material.

(Emphasis Mine)

Since this is a social function of a general nature when a tuxedo is the civilian equivalent, it looks like you're good to go, just be sure to get your Commander's authorization to be wearing a uniform to a non-CAP event.

Table 1-1 is the table that says when it is appropriate to wear the CAP uniform at all.  The later tables just say which uniform is appropriate for which occasion.   Otherwise, by your interpretation it would be ok to wear a CAP mess dress uniform to a rally that might bring discredit upon CAP since 2-1 doesn't prohibit it even though it is specifically prohibited in 1-1. 

From a public relations perspective, I also happen to think it's silly we discourage members from doing so.  I can wear my Marine dress blues just about anytime I well please, so why do we think it's a good idea to discourage CAP members from doing the same.

It isn't so much that we're against it, its that the regulations are against it.  That being said, there has to be some reasonable linkage between a legitimate CAP purpose or mission (defined broadly) and uniform wear.

Simple answer, bounce you request off your commander. If he OKs it, then fine. Just remember that if you do wear a mess dress uniform in such a situation, you are a representative of CAP and to a broader (sic) extent, the U.S. Air Force, so please conduct yourself accordingly and set a positive example that creates a good public image.

A mess dress uniform is more of a formal wear for those occassions calling for it. You're not supposed to wear a uniform in a bar or in those situations that bring discredit to the uniform, but I can guarantee you that you will find plently of people stacked up at the bar at a military ball or a wing conference dinner -- which is technically a violation of the regs.

In my Air Force and CAP experience, I have seen the mess dress worn on lake cruises (NY Wing Annual Conference), at military balls sponsored by the Anchorage Chamber of Commerce, and at a military-themed dance in an airport commercial hangar sponsored by the Red Cross.

[Thrashed]

Who would even own CAP mess dress?

Just trolling, are we?  Make it to any Wing or Region Conference and you'll see plenty of members in it.

Yes, everytime someone has a different opinion than yours, they are trolling. 

I've been to plenty of Wing and Region conferences and have never seen anyone in mess dress. Of course, I don't stay for that part. I don't wear a suit to church, I don't wear a service jacket with my blues, I will never own or wear mess dress. It's silly. I get paid a lot of money to wear a tie at work. I'm not doing it away from work. 

[Pylon]

Yes, everytime someone has a different opinion than yours, they are trolling. 

I've been to plenty of Wing and Region conferences and have never seen anyone in mess dress. Of course, I don't stay for that part. I don't wear a suit to church, I don't wear a service jacket with my blues, I will never own or wear mess dress. It's silly. I get paid a lot of money to wear a tie at work. I'm not doing it away from work. 

Exactly. The tone of "gosh! who would ever be so stupid as to own mess dress?!" comes through in your question brilliantly.   I'm fine with your differing opinions, and I could really care less whether you choose to own mess dress or not.  But to couch your choice to not buy it and your commentary on it as an "innocent question" of "who even owns mess dress?" is what trolling is.  Thanks for proving my point.

And as to the OP, I think we've muddied the waters enough for him by this point. Heh.

[lordmonar]

You're not supposed to wear a uniform in a bar or in those situations that bring discredit to the uniform, but I can guarantee you that you will find plently of people stacked up at the bar at a military ball or a wing conference dinner -- which is technically a violation of the regs.

Sorry...but got to call BS on this one.

You can't wear BDU's and Flight suits in a bar (an establishment that primarily sells alcohal) but service and service dress are perfectly okay in Bars, Casinos, strip clubs, ect.

[Hawk200]

Regarding AF airmen, how broadly are you using that term? Generally, it refers to just the enlisted folks, who don't even have a mess dress combination. All they have is a semi-formal variation  of Service Dress.

Say what? I owned a Mess Dress when I was a SrA. 39-1 indicates how NCOs wear their stripes on Mess Dress. Had two coats, one Air Force, one CAP.

[SAR-EMT1]

Regarding AF airmen, how broadly are you using that term? Generally, it refers to just the enlisted folks, who don't even have a mess dress combination. All they have is a semi-formal variation  of Service Dress.

Say what? I owned a Mess Dress when I was a SrA. 39-1 indicates how NCOs wear their stripes on Mess Dress. Had two coats, one Air Force, one CAP.

I know that USAF  NCO's can wear mess dress. But I didn't think E-1 --> E-4 could.

[flyboy53]

You're not supposed to wear a uniform in a bar or in those situations that bring discredit to the uniform, but I can guarantee you that you will find plently of people stacked up at the bar at a military ball or a wing conference dinner -- which is technically a violation of the regs.

Sorry...but got to call BS on this one.

You can't wear BDU's and Flight suits in a bar (an establishment that primarily sells alcohal) but service and service dress are perfectly okay in Bars, Casinos, strip clubs, ect.

The comment was offered with a degree of cynicism and you bit!