Blue Van Heusen Aviator Shirt and Accessories

[RVT]

If you go with a darker blue, say navy, it's available at many police and fire uniform shops now. Change the buttons there you have it. Plus, it's less expensive than the CSU coat or AF service dress coat.

Whatever it is, its going to have to be something "off the rack" except maybe for changing the buttons.  I seriously doubt you will see a custom made garment again.

[arajca]

If you go with a darker blue, say navy, it's available at many police and fire uniform shops now. Change the buttons there you have it. Plus, it's less expensive than the CSU coat or AF service dress coat.

Whatever it is, its going to have to be something "off the rack" except maybe for changing the buttons.  I seriously doubt you will see a custom made garment again.

Many law enforcement and fire departments use the old four-pocket style coat for their dress uniforms, typically in black or navy blue. That is why I brought it up - it is an off the shelf item. I've seen them typically running $90 - $125. The only tailoring needed would be to adjust the sleeve length and attach a sleeve braid, if still used.

No matter what we do, there are going to be those in the USAF getting their undies in a bunch.

Which is why I said "could help prevent" instead of just "prevent".

[cap235629]

If you go with a darker blue, say navy, it's available at many police and fire uniform shops now. Change the buttons there you have it. Plus, it's less expensive than the CSU coat or AF service dress coat.

Whatever it is, its going to have to be something "off the rack" except maybe for changing the buttons.  I seriously doubt you will see a custom made garment again.

Many law enforcement and fire departments use the old four-pocket style coat for their dress uniforms, typically in black or navy blue. That is why I brought it up - it is an off the shelf item. I've seen them typically running $90 - $125. The only tailoring needed would be to adjust the sleeve length and attach a sleeve braid, if still used.

No matter what we do, there are going to be those in the USAF getting their undies in a bunch.

Which is why I said "could help prevent" instead of just "prevent".

I agree this is the way to go, but your price is about $100 too low.  I just don't see it happening because the AF would throw a fit because our uniform would look BETTER than their suit coat monstrosity that McPeak forced upon them......

[RVT]

Many law enforcement and fire departments use the old four-pocket style coat for their dress uniforms, typically in black or navy blue. That is why I brought it up - it is an off the shelf item. I've seen them typically running $90 - $125. The only tailoring needed would be to adjust the sleeve length and attach a sleeve braid, if still used.

There you go, it even fits with the thread title now.  "Four Pocket navy Blue Police Style Tunic".  Off the shelf from a number of sources, everywhere form a $90 polyester version to a $275 custom tailored model from Marlowe White.

http://www.marlowwhite.com/dress-uniforms/images/police-department-dress-uniform.jpg

This is the style I was referring to earlier.  And I agree, this is a better color for it to be.

[RVT]

I agree this is the way to go, but your price is about $100 too low.  I just don't see it happening because the AF would throw a fit because our uniform would look BETTER than their suit coat monstrosity that McPeak forced upon them......

I almost said that.  In fact if we went this route I'd probably voluntarily stop wearing the AF stuff.

[cap235629]

I agree this is the way to go, but your price is about $100 too low.  I just don't see it happening because the AF would throw a fit because our uniform would look BETTER than their suit coat monstrosity that McPeak forced upon them......

I almost said that.  In fact if we went this route I'd probably voluntarily stop wearing the AF stuff.

without batting an eye.................

[BradM]

http://www.marlowwhite.com/dress-uniforms.html

With the Midnight Blue color? And changing the buttons to CAP silver buttons? And the service cap, replacing it with a silver band? How about the sleeve braid? Silver and matching stripe on the pants?

[arajca]

No silver sleeve braid. Perhaps blue or charcoal, but not silver.

NO TROUSER STRIPE!

[BradM]

No silver sleeve braid. Perhaps blue or charcoal, but not silver.

NO TROUSER STRIPE!

Then on the matching service cap on the website, a black leather band/chin strap instead of the gold?

[RVT]

With the Midnight Blue color? And changing the buttons to CAP silver buttons? And the service cap, replacing it with a silver band? How about the sleeve braid? Silver and matching stripe on the pants?

No sleeve braid at all.  Its pointless as everyone would have it and it defeats the "off the shelf" virtue.  Change the buttons is ALL the modification the coat should need.

And there are not new pants to this - its a  service coat for the existing G/W, idea being the midnight blue jacket with grey pants can't be confused for US Military even if you are blind.  It would be interchangeable with the Blazer and worn over the same stuff, using the insignia currently worn on the CSU.

BABY STEPS.  The more change you ask for the more approval you will need and the more argument will slow down the process.

KEEP IT SIMPLE - if we ask for one off the shelf commercial jacket they may actually allow it.  Make it fancier and ask for more and you dismiss any chance of success.

[Mustang]

While I'm not one to pooh-pooh a party since some of you are having fun with this, it's clear that some of you have missed the point entirely: the Air Force will never sign off on any military-esque CAP-distinctive uniform going forward, period. Doesn't matter if you got it out of a cop catalog or not; if it looks military, they're not going to approve it. 

We're lucky they let us get away with blue BDUs, since the USCG wears a similar uniform, but their position is that the average joe on the street can't tell a difference between the TPU and standard AF service dress even in broad daylight. All they see is blue, which means "Air Force" to the general public, and they don't want CAP members being confused with Air Force members. This "low light" crap in the 10-2701 is irrelevant.

Personally, I don't see where federal law gives them authority over non-Air Force-style uniforms, but they've clearly usurped it in torpedoing the TPU and we've let them, so whatever.

Bottom line, there will be no military-looking CAP-distinctive equivalent to the AF-style uniform.  The blazer is it.

[AlphaSigOU]

Mustang's right... we're screwed, blued and tattoed (literally and figuratively). Expect some to leave CAP - if they haven't already - when the CSU finally sunsets at the end of this year. (Me, I'll just 'salute and execute' after 1 January 2012. The CSU jacket will probably be converted into a Halloween costume... replace the buttons, remove the epaulets and add three more 'piston rings' to the sleeves to make it look like an 'airline captain'. Gotta put it to some good use!  )

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

While I'm not one to pooh-pooh a party since some of you are having fun with this, it's clear that some of you have missed the point entirely: the Air Force will never sign off on any military-esque CAP-distinctive uniform going forward, period. Doesn't matter if you got it out of a cop catalog or not; if it looks military, they're not going to approve it. 

First of all...the AFI does not give the AF absolute veto over any and all CAP distinctive uniforms.

Second...they do not have a copyright on all shades of the colour blue.  Nor does "blue" automatically equate to "USAF."  If so, there would be a lot of airline aircrew mistaken for the USAF.

Third...grey/white can also be taken as "military-looking."  Ref. the German Bundesheer.  Remove the grey tunic and you have a white shirt and grey trousers very, very close to the CAP grey/white.  Some Law Enforcement agencies (and I'm not talking about mall cops) also use that colour scheme.

Also ref this photo of a former East German Army uniform (it's from a militaria catalogue)...grey trousers, white(ish) shirt.



Fourth...how can they have jurisdiction over a uniform that uses no USAF items?

Finally...do they have to sign off on any uniform that doesn't have any USAF items?  Did they sign off on the polo shirt or does it not just make enough of a blip on their radar to notice?

My original post on this was simply to change the white aviator shirt for a civilian, commercially-available blue one different to the AF's.

[Mustang]

Clearly, you stopped reading my post after the first paragraph, so I'll repeat myself:

Personally, I don't see where federal law gives them authority over non-Air Force-style uniforms, but they've clearly usurped it in torpedoing the TPU and we've let them, so whatever.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Clearly, you stopped reading my post after the first paragraph, so I'll repeat myself:

Personally, I don't see where federal law gives them authority over non-Air Force-style uniforms, but they've clearly usurped it in torpedoing the TPU and we've let them, so whatever.

Clearly, you stopped reading my post after the first paragraph...

No, I read it.  If that's the case, then the AF acted improperly and out of bounds.

However, the mentality in CAP's upper echelons at least since the early '90s, when we got the maroon shoulder marks imposed for whatever reason, and I've heard several ranging from "Harwell" to the politically-neutral but extremely doubtful to me "USAF wanted us to look more distinctive" (ever the cynic), seems to have been, especially on uniform issues, to admit fault...whether it is our fault or not.  "Thank you sir, may I have another?"

As far as the CSU...someone (Ned?) correct me if I'm off-base, but the Air Force didn't 86 that...CAP did.  When it first appeared (under questionable circumstances by the current head of the U.S. Ranger Corps), the AF reviewed it, told what changes should be made (within their rights since it used parts of their uniform).  CAP made them, and the uniform became quite popular.  It was CAP who said "phase it out," and in the most illogical manner since General Courter mandated changes until phase out that make the uniform all the more "distinctive!"

Then there are the SDF/State Guards which have an Air Component...they seem to do whatever they like with the AF uniform, even less "distinctive" than us (maybe a RADIOMAN-favourite red nameplate, maybe the state abbreviation on their lapels...but not always).  No slagging on them, the ones I've been acquainted with are as good-to-go as can be.

http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/Pages/Collier_bio.aspx

Some say that the AF has no control over that...how does that follow?  It is their uniform.

I want good relations with our parent service as much as any CAP member, and possibly more than some.  However, that's a two-way street, and we've done the bending-over-backwards bit moreso than the Navy Sea Cadets, Army Cadet Corps have ever had to do, from what little I know of those two organisations...and whenever something stupid like the recent "you have to salute me" kerfuffle happens, all of CAP takes the hit, at least in the AF's eyes.