The Golden Pip

[Hawk200]

I think some of you guys get way into this sometimes.  RELAX it is just a discussion. 

If it's just a discussion, then what does it matter if I disagree? 

[KioGoten]

Nothing is wrong ith it, but dont take it 2 seriously.  Just a discussion 

[Dragon 3-2]

i was just thinking about golden pips and diamonds the other day lol

personally if I was a cadet....i would have changed mine out in a heart beat for a gold pip or diamond. most senior members forget the cadets  in general want to inline with Ma Blue as much as possible when it comes to uniforms. IMHO

[DakRadz]

2) For those cadets who are going into the military, they can recognize the different between a 2LT and a 1LT when they have to salute and when they dont have to.

Erm.. I want to go into the military. I want to go to an Academy, actually- and I think this reason falls flat. The military will teach you this- it isn't CAP's place to give RM instruction/training to ALL cadets, when not nearly all cadets join up in the RM. Plus, if they don't learn from the SM ranks, well...

[Gunner C]

I think they should bring back the Golden Pip.

If these kids do go to the academy or RPTC and get commissioned as a 2LT they will know that it feels like to be called a butter bar and have that experience from being a FO or WO.

Now I know that the air force does not have WO's anymore, but it could be kept as a golden pip being a 2LT then after they pass their first or second test they could be promoted to the silver pip as being a seasoned 2LT.

What do you guys think?

Never happen. So those of us who once wore the golden pip with pride are gonna hafta look at it from a shadow box. CAP's cadet grade insignia is now aligned with Ma Blue's. And Ma Blue doesn't want warrant officers; she hasn't had any since about 1980.

Actually, USAFR CWO5 Bob Barrow, retired in 1992.

When I got my Mitchell in 1968, we were promoted to C/2d Lt.  The next group of Mitchells in our squadron were C/WOs.  I remember the CC and XO discussing whether they would have shoulder boards or not.  NHQ would sell shoulder boards only if you had a Mitchell.  So they decided that they would wear them.

[PHall]

Actually, USAFR CWO5 Bob Barrow, retired in 1992.

Pretty impressive considering that the Air Force never had CWO5's. They discontinued their Warrant Officer program in 1959.
CWO5 did not come about until the 1990's, and only in the other services.

[DakRadz]

Actually, USAFR CWO5 Bob Barrow, retired in 1992.

Pretty impressive considering that the Air Force never had CWO5's. They discontinued their Warrant Officer program in 1959.
CWO5 did not come about until the 1990's, and only in the other services.

I won't get into the CWO5 discussion, but all the sources I've seen (letter to the editor written by CWO4 Barrow, as CWO4 and retired- http://users.acninc.net/padipaul/pnl_04_2005_6og.htm) [also Military.com article] list him as CWO4.

EDIT: Disregard the Military.com reference: the same article contains the phrase "Confirmed by Wikipedia".....
The letter to the editor still stands as my proof.

[FlyTiger77]

... as a 2LT in the Guard, if its golden bar I dont salute and I am glad but if its silver (black subdued) you whip it out and salute...

Interesting. When I was a second lieutenant, we didn't salute first lieutenants and as a first lieutenant, I would correct any second lieutenants that saluted me.

[DakRadz]

Interesting. When I was a second lieutenant, we didn't salute first lieutenants...

I don't think age questions would be appropriate... 

[FlyTiger77]

I was a 1LT as late as 1994. Not that long ago, thank you very much!

[DakRadz]

Nossir, not at all 
Well, learn something new everyday.

Might have noticed that back then, if I hadn't been 1 1/2....  :angel:

[Gunner C]

Actually, USAFR CWO5 Bob Barrow, retired in 1992.

Pretty impressive considering that the Air Force never had CWO5's. They discontinued their Warrant Officer program in 1959.
CWO5 did not come about until the 1990's, and only in the other services.

From the Warrant Officer Historical Association:

Historical Note - The last active duty Air Force warrant officer, CWO-4 James H. Long, retired in 1980 and the last Air Force Reserve warrant officer, CWO-4 Bob Barrow, retired in 1992. Upon his retirement, he was promoted to CWO-5, the only person in the Air Force ever to hold this grade.[2] Barrow passed away in April 2008.[10] Since Barrow's retirement, the Air Force warrant officer ranks, while still authorized by law, are not used.

[Gunner C]

... as a 2LT in the Guard, if its golden bar I dont salute and I am glad but if its silver (black subdued) you whip it out and salute...

Interesting. When I was a second lieutenant, we didn't salute first lieutenants and as a first lieutenant, I would correct any second lieutenants that saluted me.

Warrant officers do not exchange salutes, either.  For Army WOs, it is the tradition that they address each other by their first name.

[FlyTiger77]

... as a 2LT in the Guard, if its golden bar I don't salute and I am glad but if its silver (black subdued) you whip it out and salute...

Interesting. When I was a second lieutenant, we didn't salute first lieutenants and as a first lieutenant, I would correct any second lieutenants that saluted me.

Warrant officers do not exchange salutes, either.  For Army WOs, it is the tradition that they address each other by their first name.

WIWA1LT, we didn't get too worked up over warrant officers not saluting us unless officers of OTHER branches were around, either. One day, the CW4 in my unit slipped up and called me, "Sir." I promised not to tell anyone. It would have ruined his reputation.