Crisis Service Ribbon

[N6RVT]

Everyone seems to have skipped over my point: nobody is enforcing any of this.  I have seen a continuous stream of what in the actual military would be article 15 actions and literally no consequences.

You looking to whittle our membership down to a tenth of its current low levels? See my post above.  Its not the 1950s any more. Time for new directions. Less emphasis on starched shirts and more emphasis on what missions can we do in the future. I forsee CAP being less military like in the future for seniors. The Cadet program may the primary, or sole, mission in a few years. At which point they could be blended into AFROTC.

No.  My point is if the regulations are that universally ignored, it is an embarrassment to the organization to even have them.  It is a very visible way of saying nobody cares and nobody is in control.  And saying 90% of the members would quit is we enforced anything is basically saying the same thing.

[N6RVT]

Just my opinion, CAP's two unit awards, the National Commander's Unit Citation Award and the Unit Citation Award should never have been made into mini-medals and followed the USAF precedence/tradition and stayed as ribbon only awards.

Consider the Jaeger Yeager award - a medal for an online test that takes about 20 minutes.

We do not wear full size medals on anything, and miniature medals are only worn by the 1% of the membership that actually has mess dress, or is wearing them on black tie, which I have not yet seen anyone do.

When I went on Ultrathin I discovered my miniature medal set would cost about $200 - so I do not have those.....

[ed. FTFY]

[Eclipse]

miniature medals are only worn by the 1% of the membership that actually has mess dress

With mini medals now authorized on business suits, one could suppose that this will change somewhat.

[Shuman 14]

Consider the Jaeger award - a medal for an online test that takes about 20 minutes.

We do not wear full size medals on anything, and miniature medals are only worn by the 1% of the membership that actually has mess dress, or is wearing them on black tie, which I have not yet seen anyone do.

When I went on Ultrathin I discovered my miniature medal set would cost about $200 - so I do not have those.....

The German Hunter Award? What's that? :-P

Seriously, I suspect the Yeager Award was a much different endeavor when it was first conceived with a Hard copy textbook and a paper and pencil exam. Even with it being open book, you still needed to know the topic and where in the book to find the specifics.

Today, with a PDF and the "search" function in reader, far easier to pass even by the most aeronautically challenged individual.

Truth be told, I had taken and completed my Yeager before my Level 1. In fact I think the second day I had access to e-Services.

That doesn't change the fact that Unit Awards should be ribbon only awards. The only other unit award I know of that is presented in a both a ribbon and medal format is the USCGAux's Flotilla Meritorious Achievement Award.

Every other Services' Unit Awards are ribbon only and most have a Gold Frame around them.

As to full-size medals, only the the CAP Silver and Bronze Medals of Valor are presented full-size. I've seen a full-size CAP Distinguished Service Medal on the internet (here in fact) but I don't know if they actually present it full-size or not.

Most of the Military never wears full-size either. Honor Guards is wear I see them worn most commonly... that and Marine Corps Birthday Balls.

I had to buy my full-sized rack for a formal event I went to earlier this year. First time in thirty one years wearing full-sized. A mounted set of anodized full-sized medals cost me over $200.00 plus shipping and handling (and they weren't from Vanguard either); so I feel your pain. 

My CAP stack plus my Military is about 21 ribbons plus badges. I'm holding off buying the Mini-medals until after I complete Level 2. I suspect I'll need them for the Dinning Out events at the Conferences for Level 3.

[RiverAux]

A CAP uniform board?  Sure, it couldn't hurt, but every year is not necessary (Do we really want to see changes that often anyway?). 

I'd probably rather see an annual CAP ES Mission Review and Evaluation Board that would take a look at major missions of the years and try to figure out what lessons were learned and spread them throughout the organization.  Also, they could pick out some of the boutique missions that pop up all over the place and evaluate whether they are something that we should try to develop elsewhere. 

[flyboy53]

Just a couple of comments from this thread. First, yes a CAP unique uniform board might be interesting but I have fears of the corporate uniform mess, which is really no different from the uniform Merle McPeak tried to thrust on the Air Force four decades ago.

Second, never compare the new Crisis Service Ribbon to a NDSM. Two different things. The NDSM was created by President Eisenhower as a universal campaign medal because of the glut of medals that resulted from WWII -- there are six if you count the period beginning in 1940 and ending with the Occupation Medal. The NDSM, for active duty, has been awarded four times since the Korean War, and remains the longest continually issued medal in our nation's history for time of war. The Crisis Service Ribbon is, of course, related to the pandemic but the language in the guidance seems to indicate that it will be awarded again in the future. But where is the active-duty comparison to the NDSM?

That leads to the whole discussion of the AFOEA. The Air Force calls the shots on this one, and one point of clarification, IT CAN be worn on the corporate uniform -- as a lapel pin on the blazer combination. In the Air Force, DAFCs or Department of the Air Force Civilians wear the ribbon as a lapel pin with their civilian clothes. CAP members can also wear the lapel pin on their civilian clothes. So, you want to wear the ribbon, then conform to the uniform standard of the Air Force Uniform. Proposing to adapt the ribbon for a CAP unique uniform would be like throwing gas on a fire. Remember wearing the Air Force "styled" uniform complete with the U.S. collar devices is a privilege. Some of us (me) were "flies on the wall" when the Air Force pushed for the end of the CAP NCO program back in the 70s. We all know how that went, and how long it took to create a meaningful program leading to its re-institution -- similar gas on a fire situation.

Over the years on this forum, there have been several individuals who promoted the idea of CAP members being nominated for DAF civilian decorations. Perhaps the time has come to examine this again. In the meantime, we seem to come up with another new ribbon frequently and then that leads to another miniature medal for sale.

Instead, we as an organization may want to re-evaluate our awards and decorations. What really needs to occur here is concrete guidance about "all or some," and some truly meaningful and heraldry-correct decoration designs. Don't harass people like myself who opt to only wear three CAP ribbons because the other option means too many to wear on a uniform.

Then, if you want to do something meaningful for membership, let's opt for more full-sized meritorious service-related decorations instead of the ribbons and miniature medals. Sure, they may only be used for presentation. Have Vanguard offer them for sale -- if nothing more -- and wait and see if the sets are popular -- means a profit for Vanguard and the organization.

How's that for a uniform board item?

[heliodoc]

Air Force Gen. Mike Minihan, the brand-new commander of Air Mobility Command, took nearly all of his 32 ribbons off his uniform for his most recent official service photo. Of those 32 ribbons, Minihan left only three on his chest, all of which were unit-based, rather than individual awards. One of Minihan's public affairs officials said the general's intent was to signal his commitment to team accomplishments over individual glory.

CAP REAAALY needs to think about emulating this young man!!  Mission first! Fruit Salad, later!!

[James Shaw]

As to full-size medals, only the the CAP Silver and Bronze Medals of Valor are presented full-size. I've seen a full-size CAP Distinguished Service Medal on the internet (here in fact) but I don't know if they actually present it full-size or not.

The full-size DSM is generally only presented to outgoing Wing Commanders, Region Commanders. You rarely see them presented to anyone that is not a Colonel.

Generally after they have been presented they go in a drawer, box, or storage as they aren't worn on any other uniform after presentation.

[N6RVT]

Air Force Gen. Mike Minihan, the brand-new commander of Air Mobility Command, took nearly all of his 32 ribbons off his uniform for his most recent official service photo. Of those 32 ribbons, Minihan left only three on his chest, all of which were unit-based, rather than individual awards. One of Minihan's public affairs officials said the general's intent was to signal his commitment to team accomplishments over individual glory.

It is safe to assume a general would have a lot of ribbons so wearing them would be superfluous.  I you look at most 40's and 50's general pictures they have one or two rows on and thats it.

Wearing only one row of ribbons not only makes those three ribbons stand out, but which ones you choose to wear can say a lot more than a kaleidoscope of colors you have to stare at from 3 feet away to decipher what they mean.

[Fubar]

A CAP uniform board?  Sure, it couldn't hurt, but every year is not necessary (Do we really want to see changes that often anyway?).

We already have a uniform board that makes suggestions to the CAP/CC a few times a year.

[Jester]

Meh, I wear all my stuff and I don't really do it for anybody but myself.  I have what I have.  If someone's butt gets hurt because they have have less, then I don't know what to tell you.  We make the choices we make and get what we get. 

When I look at my unit awards, campaign/service ribbons, etc. I think about the people I was with and the experiences I got.  When I look at my individual decorations I think about the experiences, lessons learned, and the people I shared it with.  I wear my function badge because I still have pride in my old career field and acknowledge how it made me who I am in some regards. 

It's a visual reminder for me.  If the secondary effect is that cadets want to ask questions about them and give me an avenue to positively impact them, then all the better.

[Jester]

A CAP uniform board?  Sure, it couldn't hurt, but every year is not necessary (Do we really want to see changes that often anyway?).

We already have a uniform board that makes suggestions to the CAP/CC a few times a year.

Then that should be published information, including everything that was recommended, where it came from (if it's not 90% member-submitted they're messing up) and whether it was a go/no go and WHY.


I always enjoy reading the AF uniform board results and seeing what got shot down, what made it through, etc.  This is relevant information that should be open-source.

[TheSkyHornet]

Whelp, I see that we managed to invoke the Coast Guard Aux again...

[PHall]

Air Force Gen. Mike Minihan, the brand-new commander of Air Mobility Command, took nearly all of his 32 ribbons off his uniform for his most recent official service photo. Of those 32 ribbons, Minihan left only three on his chest, all of which were unit-based, rather than individual awards. One of Minihan's public affairs officials said the general's intent was to signal his commitment to team accomplishments over individual glory.

It is safe to assume a general would have a lot of ribbons so wearing them would be superfluous.  I you look at most 40's and 50's general pictures they have one or two rows on and thats it.

Wearing only one row of ribbons not only makes those three ribbons stand out, but which ones you choose to wear can say a lot more than a kaleidoscope of colors you have to stare at from 3 feet away to decipher what they mean.

The General did what ANY MEMBER OF THE USAF AND CAP can do. Per DAFI 36-2903 for USAF and CAPR 39-1 for CAP on the Service Dress uniform you can wear all or some ribbons.
No regulation changes required.

[AirDX]

Another long uniform thread over ribbons and uniforms most of our declining membership will never wear. There are 600 seniors in my wing and I'll bet 80% not only never wear anything but polos or aviator shirts but don't own anything else. Polos are fine for most of what we do, and the white shirt for awards ceremonies or whatever you might want to look a little nicer for. Even on the white aviator shirt, I wear the minimum required "bling" anymore. Three ribbons only when I do put them on. And I certainly don't get butt hurt because I can't wear my military ribbons on corporate garb. Someday when this is all over with I'll put the whole stack together and hang it on the wall in a shadowbox, that's about it.

It's about service, not uniforms. Of course the opportunity for that is declining just like membership, but that's for another topic.

[baronet68]

As to full-size medals, only the the CAP Silver and Bronze Medals of Valor are presented full-size. I've seen a full-size CAP Distinguished Service Medal on the internet (here in fact) but I don't know if they actually present it full-size or not.

The full-size DSM is generally only presented to outgoing Wing Commanders, Region Commanders. You rarely see them presented to anyone that is not a Colonel.

Generally after they have been presented they go in a drawer, box, or storage as they aren't worn on any other uniform after presentation.

ALL of Civil Air Patrol's medals are presented in a full-sized format...
However, the trick is that CAP only awards three medals:

Silver Medal of Valor
Bronze Medal of Valor
Distinguished Service Medal

Everything else (while they might be available as a mini-medal for wear with certain uniform combinations) is actually a citation, award, or ribbon.

[THRAWN]

Air Force Gen. Mike Minihan, the brand-new commander of Air Mobility Command, took nearly all of his 32 ribbons off his uniform for his most recent official service photo. Of those 32 ribbons, Minihan left only three on his chest, all of which were unit-based, rather than individual awards. One of Minihan's public affairs officials said the general's intent was to signal his commitment to team accomplishments over individual glory.

CAP REAAALY needs to think about emulating this young man!!  Mission first! Fruit Salad, later!!

Guess the deputy and command chief didn't get the memo.

[N6RVT]

As to full-size medals, only the the CAP Silver and Bronze Medals of Valor are presented full-size. I've seen a full-size CAP Distinguished Service Medal on the internet (here in fact) but I don't know if they actually present it full-size or not.

The full-size DSM is generally only presented to outgoing Wing Commanders, Region Commanders. You rarely see them presented to anyone that is not a Colonel.

Generally after they have been presented they go in a drawer, box, or storage as they aren't worn on any other uniform after presentation.

ALL of Civil Air Patrol's medals are presented in a full-sized format...
However, the trick is that CAP only awards three medals:

Silver Medal of Valor
Bronze Medal of Valor
Distinguished Service Medal

Everything else (while they might be available as a mini-medal for wear with certain uniform combinations) is actually a citation, award, or ribbon.

Sounds like the DSM is actually the CAP version of the Legion of Merit.

[N6RVT]

As to full-size medals, only the the CAP Silver and Bronze Medals of Valor are presented full-size. I've seen a full-size CAP Distinguished Service Medal on the internet (here in fact) but I don't know if they actually present it full-size or not.

The full-size DSM is generally only presented to outgoing Wing Commanders, Region Commanders. You rarely see them presented to anyone that is not a Colonel.

Generally after they have been presented they go in a drawer, box, or storage as they aren't worn on any other uniform after presentation.

While it sounds like something I would in fact actually say, that quote is not from me.

And my own comments came out as a quote.   Something strange is going on here...

[James Shaw]

As to full-size medals, only the the CAP Silver and Bronze Medals of Valor are presented full-size. I've seen a full-size CAP Distinguished Service Medal on the internet (here in fact) but I don't know if they actually present it full-size or not.

The full-size DSM is generally only presented to outgoing Wing Commanders, Region Commanders. You rarely see them presented to anyone that is not a Colonel.

Generally after they have been presented they go in a drawer, box, or storage as they aren't worn on any other uniform after presentation.

While it sounds like something I would in fact actually say, that quote is not from me.

And my own comments came out as a quote.   Something strange is going on here...

It was likely the way I copied the info. Sorry about that if so.