Mobiles not supported by NTC?

[BoxGranch]

Anyone outside of FLWG notice that their mobile radios not assigned to vehicles have been moved to not supported by NTC status?

[Eclipse]

In ORMS?

[arajca]

In ORMS. Many of the old EF Johnsons have been moved to that status as parts are not available. This was put out to the Communications folks a few months ago.

[Eclipse]

Mine is showing that as well.

Presumably this means that if they stop working they move from doorstops to boat anchors?

[CAP9907]

That is correct. As Wing's receive new APX radios, 'X' number of issued legacy units are required to go into not-supported mode. They can be used but if maintenance is needed, NTC will not repair. Unknown if they are allowing Members or units to self-fund repairs...

~9907

[Eclipse]

X' number of issued legacy units are required to go into not-supported mode

I know I shouldn't ask...but...

...why?

It's one thing if parts are unavailable, but if it's just arbitrary because NHQ has too many incubators on the list...

[CAP9907]

I was told that it was not punitive, but rather the unavailability of spare parts along with repurposing existing radios for the remote repeater initiative. Maybe someone from higher can chime in.

~9907

[Fubar]

I swear I'm not trying to be a contrarian, but I don't understand this comm rollout at all. They said it could take up to 10 years to finish all the wings, but after just a couple of years the current radio model will be replaced with something else. Goodbye a single training standard nationwide. They say the fancy (and expensive) bells and whistles like encryption are necessary due to customer needs, but then those customers are apparently not paying for that "need", so we're buying on the 10 year installment plan.

Things that we do need, such as additional repeater pairs, more radios in the hands of members, and secure repeater linking are all things we're told are not possible.

I ran up the chain awhile back that hey, since it will be 10 years before we get radios, can we get new batteries for our EJF portables since they all hold about 9 minutes of a charge? I was told NHQ doesn't support them anymore because you can't get parts. So now everyone is running around with $20 ham radios that have been programmed to work on CAP frequencies, just so they can get their job done.

Also, at last year's national conference they showed towers of equipment sitting in storage at NHQ. They were very proud of redoing the warehouse so that it could hold more stuff. Stuff that shouldn't be sitting on shelves and instead should be in the hands of the membership. Has any of that equipment moved yet? Hang on to it too much longer and the warranties will expire before they leave Maxwell.

To hopefully reinforce I'm not trying to whine just to be a whiner, but I do appreciate NHQ saying wings can keep the existing EFJ equipment if they need it, but that it won't be supported. That's a fair tradeoff, provided wings are resourceful in finding parts they need. It also means we didn't get the usual "trade in" discount from Motorola that usually are included in these kinds of deals.

[BoxGranch]

As a group comm officer I would have appreciated some notice. I got none. Certainly there is nothing I could have done and I knew it was going to happen, but it would have been nice to be told beforehand. It would also have been nice to point out that the TA allows for some radios for IC and ICP use and kept them supported.

While parts are an issue, I think the plan to reduce the number of radios is the bigger reason. We are going from 2,401 mobiles to 1,059.

If you read the DOK presentation at the national conference in 2018, it was clear the only base and mobile VHF radios they are going to support in the long run will be in corporate vehicles and for IC's and ICP's.

The number of handhelds goes down by about 300, from 2,124 to 1,826 and I hear I will start losing support on the Johnson handhelds as well.

Elsewhere in the PowerPoint, the DOK mentions the possibility of reducing the number of repeaters by 50%.

The 2019 presentation didn't have much in the way of numbers and I have not found a 2020 update, but need to look again.

It sounds like I will have to turn in Johnsons to get Motorolas. The Johnsons will be used for ReadyOps. I had hoped to retain the Johnsons.

I am also hearing that a Noun Mobile Radio-VHF may not be used as a base and a Noun Base Station-VHF may not be used as a mobile. The later is not an issue as I have so few, but the former is an issue due wanting bases at my squadrons as well as co-located with HF radios which I am being encouraged to move to member homes.

Even if I can find money to get them fixed, there is going to be the FOUO issue with frequencies. The repair shop will have to be approved. So far, I have not found one. Should anyone know of such a place, please let me know.

Caveat, none of what I perceive is happening is written in stone other than the loss of support on all of my mobiles save the ones in vans. It is, however, what I am hearing from above and I was wondering if it is what is happening elsewhere. It seems that CAP underwent a dramatic restructure of communications with the requirement for NTIA compliant radios went into effect and is going through another with the current plan.

[Eclipse]

Noun Mobile Radio-VHF may not be used as a base and a Noun Base Station-VHF

If this is, in fact, true, this is not only ridiculous, but will disable a significant amount
of the already struggling comms network.

I can't begin to imagine who would think this is a good idea, nor for that matter how it would be
enforceable or workable from a practical perspective.

[arajca]

A simple solution is when you're replacing a mobile in a base station role, request a base station set.

[CAP9907]

Noun Mobile Radio-VHF may not be used as a base and a Noun Base Station-VHF

If this is, in fact, true, this is not only ridiculous, but will disable a significant amount
of the already struggling comms network.

I can't begin to imagine who would think this is a good idea, nor for that matter how it would be
enforceable or workable from a practical perspective.

Ah, but it is indeed true. I tried to request a replacement mobile antenna and mount for a Noun base radio that was already installed in a CAP van. Was told by NTC "negative, that radio is classed as a Noun
Mobile radio". Frustrating indeed.. the solution was shall we say creative, but within the rules and regs.

~9907

[arajca]

There is also the option to get a mobile reclassed as a base or vise-versa. Or, if happen to have a mobile playing a base and a base playing a mobile in the same unit, swap them.

[Eclipse]

There is also the option to get a mobile reclassed as a base or vise-versa. Or, if happen to have a mobile playing a base and a base playing a mobile in the same unit, swap them.

You say that as if you think it's as simple as going online and checking a box.

[CAP9907]

FYI,

Yesterday NHQ sent out an email that addressed this question. Contact your Wing DC for more, it went out to all Comm managers and was basically as I stated above but with further amplification.

~9907

[arajca]

There is also the option to get a mobile reclassed as a base or vise-versa. Or, if happen to have a mobile playing a base and a base playing a mobile in the same unit, swap them.

You say that as if you think it's as simple as going online and checking a box.

Never said it would be easy, just that the option exists.

[Eclipse]

It's pretty amazing that CAP is still squirreling radios in closets instead of deploying
them, however the TOA is a big part of the problem.

[arajca]

It's the trophy idea. My unit has more radios than yours. Also, some folks who want radios issued to them do not want to take responsibility for them.

People are going to be surprised when National starts replacing EFJs the APXs and it isn't going to be a 1 for 1 replacement.

[Eclipse]

I would hazard the majority of radios are used once or twice a year, and that's by, if not design,
then practical reality.

It's the same song and dance for the last 20 years.

People need radios for a legitimate, but limited activity, and the TOA blocks them from being
issued because "reasons". So in a lot of cases they buy something cheap and functional but
limited for CAP.

Meanwhile, they issue radios to people based on the TOA who have no actual use for them, and
then wonder why they never get used.

And the nets are a lot of people using PORs and / or CORs but who have no ES quals so they
can't ever use them real-world, so their confidence checks are meaningless.

(though to be fair, we now know that ES quals are not really "required" to participate in missions
when the SHTF, right?)

Someone gets a stray hair, calls a bunch of them in, they sit and collect dust until
someone else decides they can't sit around and they get reissued to the same people
again because they are they only ones authorized based on the TOA.

Rinse - repeat.

You don't rebuild a communications infrastructure by reducing the number of radios
both physically and by what is authorized.

And The Vid is just going to make this worse, since there will be people dropping
off both the actual roster and ES quals in waves, meaning a lot of people allotted
radios via the TOA won't be any more.

(NHQ has been holding this off by not expiring people and quals, I doubt they
can do that past the FY, watch for a Niagra Falls like drop in membership and qualified people
on 1 Oct, or whenever they decide to open those doors).

The last three+ months was the perfect time to revitalize the comms network.
People sitting around bored could have been setting up their radios, getting
familiar with them, and building a real network with actual traffic.  Heck even
>I< pulled out my radios and got them up and running. For what?

Highbird nets with a single pilot would be the perfect way to exercise skills
and put hours on the planes, without little risk of contact.

But there's been nothing.  I know there's been some of the typical "see how this
works" on HF, which is also all but useless, since if you don't have a strong
local VHF net, talking to "someone" who has an HF means nothing.

Rinse - repeat.

[radioguy]

To hopefully reinforce I'm not trying to whine just to be a whiner, but I do appreciate NHQ saying wings can keep the existing EFJ equipment if they need it, but that it won't be supported. That's a fair tradeoff, provided wings are resourceful in finding parts they need.

I didn't find this to be true.  We recently received a few APX4500's and asked to keep the EFJ 5300's for member use (and the squadron was agreeable to no NTC support).  Absolutely NOT... send them back to NTC.