Medal of Valor Association FB Group

[James Shaw]

I didn't realize that the Lifesaving Medal qualified for membership into this group. I will pass this information along.

You are correct. The original criteria for inclusion did not include the Certificate of Recognition for Lifesaving. This was recently discussed and changed.

1) We felt the criteria for the Certificate of Recognition for Lifesaving was enough to warrant inclusion because of the end result. Someone is still alive due to that members actions. We do not distinguish between the two types of Lifesaving because the end result is the same as well.

[Woodsy]

I fear the Valor Medals (both Bronze and Silver) have become such a scarcity that members deserving of them aren't even put in for it, but awarded a lower-level (lifesaving) award instead.

For example, I am personally aware of an incident that happened last year in which 2 uniformed CAP members during an official CAP event observed and intervened in an incident in which the victim would have likely died without action.  The incident involved extremely dangerous environmental conditions, such as a commercial vehicle still on and in gear, structural damage to a hangar, an aircraft inside damaged and actively leaking fuel...  Yet these members, knowing the danger, entered, busted out windows, and extracted the driver to safety. 

The city where it happened held a ceremony to honor them for their heroism, yet all they got from CAP was a lifesaving award.  They were not even put in for a Medal of Valor.  In my opinion, their actions met the criteria for at least a Bronze, and likely a Silver Medal of Valor.  But no attempt was made- they "settled" for a lifesaving award. 

[Private Investigator]

I fear the Valor Medals (both Bronze and Silver) have become such a scarcity that members deserving of them aren't even put in for it, but awarded a lower-level (lifesaving) award instead.

For example, I am personally aware of an incident that happened last year in which 2 uniformed CAP members during an official CAP event observed and intervened in an incident in which the victim would have likely died without action.  The incident involved extremely dangerous environmental conditions, such as a commercial vehicle still on and in gear, structural damage to a hangar, an aircraft inside damaged and actively leaking fuel...  Yet these members, knowing the danger, entered, busted out windows, and extracted the driver to safety. 

The city where it happened held a ceremony to honor them for their heroism, yet all they got from CAP was a lifesaving award.  They were not even put in for a Medal of Valor.  In my opinion, their actions met the criteria for at least a Bronze, and likely a Silver Medal of Valor.  But no attempt was made- they "settled" for a lifesaving award.

They "settled"? Being in law enforcement for a career I saw lots of different acts of heroism. So you understand a whole range of dynamics involved. Most uninformed people see a once in a lifetime event and they think they should be recognized by the POTUS. 

[Private Investigator]

Wow. I just searched for SMV recipients, and found a knowledgebase article mentioning one being awarded to a member of my squadron a couple of years ago for pulling someone out of a burning vehicle.

Good example. Of course that could be also be a BMV, Lifesaving or even a ComCom. It depends on a lot of various dynamics.

Why do you not know a member of your own SQ got a SMV   

[Eclipse]

They "settled"? Being in law enforcement for a career I saw lots of different acts of heroism. So you understand a whole range of dynamics involved. Most uninformed people see a once in a lifetime event and they think they should be recognized by the POTUS.

That begs the question of "heroism".

Is it "heroic" for someone who is highly trained and financially compensated, not to mention properly equipped, to run into a
burning building?  I don't know, it has risk, sure, but those risks are mitigated by training, equipment, and experience.

The same can not be said for the average Joe Citizen who runs into a building to knock doors, pull people out, etc.

[Private Investigator]

I don't want to derail the thread or beat a dead animal..... but

Yeah, I got put in for one and never heard about it, never asked.  I later found it in a desk drawer loooooong after the SqCC had moved on.  I found the 2a about 5 years or so after the incident.  I think there is a 2yr window from the date of the incident.   The actual incident was probably 13-14years ago now.

5/22/1994. I was told that being a policeman you can not get a CAP SMV or BMV since it could be considered 'day job' related, even if you was off duty from your cop job. The exceptional is if the act occurred 'during' a CAP activity.   

[RiverAux]

To slightly derail things even more, I believe that no CAP award should be given for actions that weren't performed while on CAP duty. 

[ol'fido]

During my time in the Army, two GIs were off duty in down in Mililani at the Jack in the Box. They caught a guy trying to rob the place and held him till HPD showed up. Both received ARCOMs.

Unfortunately, the award of medals was and is about politics and the desire of higher HQs to give credit for something that someone low on the totem pole did. Read the full story sometime about how Col Robert Howard was recommended not once but three times for the MOH and why he didn't get it the first two.

[BHartman007]

Wow. I just searched for SMV recipients, and found a knowledgebase article mentioning one being awarded to a member of my squadron a couple of years ago for pulling someone out of a burning vehicle.

Good example. Of course that could be also be a BMV, Lifesaving or even a ComCom. It depends on a lot of various dynamics.

Why do you not know a member of your own SQ got a SMV   

Because it happened several years before I joined, and this guy is no longer active, though he keeps paying his dues every year. I've been there almost a year and I've never seen him.

[Private Investigator]

Wow. I just searched for SMV recipients, and found a knowledgebase article mentioning one being awarded to a member of my squadron a couple of years ago for pulling someone out of a burning vehicle.

Good example. Of course that could be also be a BMV, Lifesaving or even a ComCom. It depends on a lot of various dynamics.

Why do you not know a member of your own SQ got a SMV   

Because it happened several years before I joined, and this guy is no longer active, though he keeps paying his dues every year. I've been there almost a year and I've never seen him.

Maybe its from my military background. But every unit I have been in I try to learn about its history and people. One day you could be the Squadron Commander. 

[Private Investigator]

To slightly derail things even more, I believe that no CAP award should be given for actions that weren't performed while on CAP duty.

I would have to disagree because that statement is not clear enough. I would say, yes and no. Too many possible scenarios, i.e. 10 minutes after a CAP meeting is over; Still on duty or off? I am driving to "Kwik Mart" and I start getting pings on 121.5 because I listen 24/7 and two minutes later I am at a apartment complex that just got hit by a small plane. On duty or off duty. Of course YMMV   

[Mitchell 1969]

I don't want to derail the thread or beat a dead animal..... but

Yeah, I got put in for one and never heard about it, never asked.  I later found it in a desk drawer loooooong after the SqCC had moved on.  I found the 2a about 5 years or so after the incident.  I think there is a 2yr window from the date of the incident.   The actual incident was probably 13-14years ago now.

5/22/1994. I was told that being a policeman you can not get a CAP SMV or BMV since it could be considered 'day job' related, even if you was off duty from your cop job. The exceptional is if the act occurred 'during' a CAP activity.   

Sounds like somebody's uninformed and erroneous misguided personal opinion, as opposed to policy.

Off-duty cop jumping into a freezing river to rescue a kid is no better prepared or equipped than an off-duty pastry chef doing the same thing.

[Mitchell 1969]

To slightly derail things even more, I believe that no CAP award should be given for actions that weren't performed while on CAP duty.

That's a higher standard than that applied to the Soldier's Medal, Navy and Marine Corps Medal, Coast Guard Medal or Airman's Medal (which are probably the closest military decorations to the MOV). For example: http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=66322

Limiting the awards to "while on CAP duty" is simply trying to avoid recognizing people and discredits their (hopefully) CAP assisted public service instincts and training. To what end?

[BHartman007]

Wow. I just searched for SMV recipients, and found a knowledgebase article mentioning one being awarded to a member of my squadron a couple of years ago for pulling someone out of a burning vehicle.

Good example. Of course that could be also be a BMV, Lifesaving or even a ComCom. It depends on a lot of various dynamics.

Why do you not know a member of your own SQ got a SMV   

Because it happened several years before I joined, and this guy is no longer active, though he keeps paying his dues every year. I've been there almost a year and I've never seen him.

Maybe its from my military background. But every unit I have been in I try to learn about its history and people. One day you could be the Squadron Commander. 

Forgive me for not combing the personnel files and memorizing the histories of all the people who quit showing up long before I got there. They didn't hand me a "master book of everything you could ever want to know about any member, current or past" when I joined.

[RiverAux]

Limiting the awards to "while on CAP duty" is simply trying to avoid recognizing people and discredits their (hopefully) CAP assisted public service instincts and training.

No, it doesn't discredit them at all.  I believe that CAP awards should go for CAP service.  Period.  Frankly, when I see CAP giving an award for something done while not on CAP time it makes me think that CAP is trying to take credit for something that it had nothing to do with. 

Now if my standard were the CAP standard (which I fully recognize isn't the case) if a CAP squadron commander has a member that does something great "off duty", by all means they should see what awards might be available to them as "civilians", for example from the city or state or Red Cross.  Then, if they receive that award I'm fine with CAP making a big deal of it. 

I would have to disagree because that statement is not clear enough. I would say, yes and no. Too many possible scenarios, i.e. 10 minutes after a CAP meeting is over; Still on duty or off? I am driving to "Kwik Mart" and I start getting pings on 121.5 because I listen 24/7 and two minutes later I am at a apartment complex that just got hit by a small plane. On duty or off duty. Of course YMMV

Yeah, there could be some situations where it would be murky, but I would say that if you'd be considered on duty if you broke your arm while doing the action and the feds would pay for your medical bills, then you would be eligible for a CAP award for that action.  Some judgement calls would have to be made. 

But, lets be clear -- almost all MOV and Lifesaving Awards earned by CAP members in recent years (at least those that have gained reasonable publicity within CAP) are for actions that are clearly and without a doubt performed while not on CAP duty.  There usually isn't any real doubt about that. 

I realize that I'm in a minority on this one as the trend within CAP and the military is to give out such awards for off-duty actions, but that doesn't make it right in my book. 

[SARDOC]

I think the recognition for a well done deed whether done as part of one's Civil Air Patrol duty or not it speaks to our core values to recognize them.

I've seen Cops and Firefighter's all receive departmental awards done for acts done off duty.  I don't see the issue.

[a2capt]

I think the recognition for a well done deed whether done as part of one's Civil Air Patrol duty or not it speaks to our core values to recognize them.

  Absolutely in agreement.

[MSG Mac]

I fear the Valor Medals (both Bronze and Silver) have become such a scarcity that members deserving of them aren't even put in for it, but awarded a lower-level (lifesaving) award instead.

For example, I am personally aware of an incident that happened last year in which 2 uniformed CAP members during an official CAP event observed and intervened in an incident in which the victim would have likely died without action.  The incident involved extremely dangerous environmental conditions, such as a commercial vehicle still on and in gear, structural damage to a hangar, an aircraft inside damaged and actively leaking fuel...  Yet these members, knowing the danger, entered, busted out windows, and extracted the driver to safety. 

The city where it happened held a ceremony to honor them for their heroism, yet all they got from CAP was a lifesaving award.  They were not even put in for a Medal of Valor.  In my opinion, their actions met the criteria for at least a Bronze, and likely a Silver Medal of Valor.  But no attempt was made- they "settled" for a lifesaving award.

If you know of it, why don't you recommend them for the appropriate Medal of Valor? It only takes a few minutes and anyone with knowledge of the act can do it. Speak to your Wing DP about upgrading the award because of the danger element, which may not have been stressed in the original F120. 

[RiverAux]

If they've already received the Lifesaving Award they aren't eligible for any further CAP awards for that action.  Only 1 award per incident even if the first award was not the most appropriate. 

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Also, did anyone consider (understanding that not all situations are like this) that the cause for the action meriting an SMV might exist because CAP officers and members didn't use proper ORM and safety standards? 

Devil's advocate, right here.