Clarification of Officer Rank Qualifications For "New" CAP

[Dragoon]

So what happens when the only commissioned officer in a unit steps down from command? Close the unit?

Bingo.  If you establish jobs that only certain folks can do, you have to deal with 2 issues

1.  Some work just won't get done if you don't have the right kind of officer/NCO/FO around to do the work. We can't just transfer someone in against their will.  And if you start "breveting" to fill the slots, we're right back where we are now.  We just don't have the workforce mobility to support this kind of specialization.

2.  If someone no longer wants to do the work, but can keep the rank, you'll end up with folks who attend training to get promoted, but don't ever do the work required of their grade, leading to:

          a.  A bunch of incredibly inexperienced field grades who went to the right schools, but have no decent command or staff experience (meaning, in spite of good PD, they are basically unqualified)

          b.  No motivation to do the work.  What's the carrot for being a Wing Safety officer?  THAT'S our biggest problem - a lack of quality in key positions because you can get all the bennies without actually contributing!



Imagine this conversation:

USAF Lt Col: "So you are one of the new highly trained CAP Lt Cols.  How did you get promoted?"

CAP Lt Col:  "Well, I've got a college degree.  I went through a 6 weekend OTS.  And I've taken Squadron Officer's School and Air Command and Staff College."

USAF Lt Col: "Hmmm...so you've had about 12 days of hands-on training plus correspondence courses."

CAP Lt Col:  "Well yeah, but that's not all. I've got 20 years of CAP experience.  I'm a mission pilot and and ground team leader.

USAF Lt Col:  "Have you ever commanded a unit?"

CAP Lt Col: "Err......no."

USAF Lt Col::  "What staff jobs have you had?"

CAP Lt Col:  "Well, I was the Squadron Transportation Officer."

USAF Lt Col: "That sounds impressive.  How many vehicles did you manage?"

CAP Lt Col: "Err....one.  I was also the Squadron Aerospace Education Officer"

USAF Lt Col: "I see.  And what kind of staff work did you do there?  How big was your staff."

CAP Lt Col: "Just me.  I taught classes to 5 cadets every month or so."

USAF Lt Col: "No offense, but we'd have a senior airman do that.  What about this ground team leader thing?  That sounds pretty impressive.  How big is a ground team?"

CAP Lt Col: "Err...about 5 guys.  4 cadets and me."

USAF Lt Col:  "So that's your resume. A college degree, a few days of training, a bunch of correspondence courses and some E-4 level staff jobs.   What the heck do you need Air Command and Staff College for?"

CAP Lt Col::  "Because it makes me a field grade officer!"

USAF Lt Col::  So, Colonel, what CAP job do you have as a field grade officer?"

CAP Lt Col:: Nothing, really.  I'm just flying some orientation rides for cadets every couple of months. I'm real busy with other things right now."

USAF Lt Col::  "Wow...I'd hate to see your second lieutenants.  That's a nice rack of 18 ribbons, though..."

[Chappie]

The outline below was my attempt to combine the good work that John Kachemeister has done with my own thoughts on limiting officer grades to those actually serving in Command assignments.

B.   Officer Grades (Professional Appointment)
All Professional Appointment Officer grades are limited to company-grades and are temporary grades held by members in certain professions for the duration of their assignment only.
a.   BA/BS degree for initial entry into officer grade.
b.   Approval by Wing or next higher echelon officer selection board. Board interviews applicant and verifies presented credentials.
c.   Completion of Level I, with OTS (to include SLS.)
d.   2d Lt after completion of training requirements (Level I with OTS/SLS) and
i.   Licensed Vocational Nurse assigned to Health Services duty assignment at Flight/Squadron level or above.
ii.   Chaplain assigned to Flight/Squadron level and above
iii.   Attorney assigned as Legal Officer at the Flight/Squadron level and above
e.   1st Lt after completion of training requirements (Level I with OTS/SLS) and one of the following:
i.   Initial Assignment of Licensed Physician, Registered Nurse or Physician's Assistant assigned to Health Services duty assignment at Flight/Squadron level or above.
ii.   Chaplain assigned to Group/Sector level and above or 3 years satisfactory duty performance as Chaplain at Flight/Squadron level.
iii.   Attorney assigned as Legal Officer at the Group/Sector level and above or 3 years satisfactory duty performance as Legal Officer at Flight/Squadron level.
f.   Capt after completion of training requirements (Level II) and:
i.   Licensed Physician assigned to Health Services duty assignment at Group/Wing level or above with 18 months satisfactory service.
ii.   Assigned as Wing Chaplain
iii.   Attorney assigned as Wing Legal Officer


John Aylesworth, Lt Col, CAP
Commander PCR-CA-151

Are you suggesting that those with Professional appointments can only attain the highest rank/grade of Capt. and that is if they serve on Wing Staff?   I hope that I misread this.  

I know of several chaplains (myself included) who have completed all levels of CAP training --- which have not been taken in account in your proposal.  

As it currently stands (CAPR 35-5), chaplains are initially appointed to the rank of 1st Lt (provided they have an accredited Bachelors and 5 years ministry experience); Capt (provided they have an accredited Bachelors and Master of Divinity degree or accredited Bachelors and 7 years of ministry experience; Major (provided they have an earned Doctorate and 1 year time in grade as Capt).  

The only full-bird Colonel in the CAP Chaplain Service is the Chief of Chaplains.

[DogCollar]

Chappie is correct in outlining the 35-5 for chaplains.  Further, I believe that appointment grade is such so that it corresponds with the military branches chaplain corps. 

Maybe someone that's been around longer than I have can address this, but I believe that the appointment grade for chaplains is because CAP chaplains are called upon, from time to time, to "fill in" for Air Force, NG and ANG units that have deployed chaplains, and need chaplaincy services.

I may be all wet with this understanding!

[arajca]

So what happens when the only commissioned officer in a unit steps down from command? Close the unit?

Bingo.  If you establish jobs that only certain folks can do, you have to deal with 2 issues

1.  Some work just won't get done if you don't have the right kind of officer/NCO/FO around to do the work. We can't just transfer someone in against their will.  And if you start "breveting" to fill the slots, we're right back where we are now.  We just don't have the workforce mobility to support this kind of specialization.

2.  If someone no longer wants to do the work, but can keep the rank, you'll end up with folks who attend training to get promoted, but don't ever do the work required of their grade, leading to:

          a.  A bunch of incredibly inexperienced field grades who went to the right schools, but have no decent command or staff experience (meaning, in spite of good PD, they are basically unqualified)

          b.  No motivation to do the work.  What's the carrot for being a Wing Safety officer?  THAT'S our biggest problem - a lack of quality in key positions because you can get all the bennies without actually contributing!

So, if Capt X gets married and finds (to no one's great surprise) he doesn't have the time to continue in command of ABC Comp Sqdn, and decides to step down, giving up his railroad tracks in the process, and no one else in the unit qualifies for a commission, you'd tell 20 cadets (and their parents) and 10 seniors they have to find a new unit because Capt X 'selfishly' decided that his new family was important to him than CAP? Oh, and by the way, the nearest unit is 50+miles away.

That'll do wonders for retention and recruiting.

While this may seem far fetched, it realy isn't. My unit (which is the closest one to me) is 50 miles away.

[jayleswo]

Chappie, yes you read it correctly. Again, the idea is to tie commissioned officer grades to level of responsibility, not just training, even for professional/chaplain appointments. A squadron Chaplain has less responsibility than a Wing chaplain for example. Not that a chaplain doesn't have a lot of responsibility - they are one of the few, aside from unit commanders physicians/nurses and attorneys that are awarded officer grade in recognition of this. It make sense too in light of the fact that CAP Chaplain's can augment USAF performing chaplain duties.

But there should be a limit to the maximum grade. Maybe it should be Major not Captain, and someone more familiar with the Chaplain program could probably do a better job fleshing this oput than I could. But if you are no longer Wing Chaplain and just serving at the squadron, you'd take a bust to 1st Lt. Interested in your thoughts.

-- John

[Chappie]

Chappie is correct in outlining the 35-5 for chaplains.  Further, I believe that appointment grade is such so that it corresponds with the military branches chaplain corps. 

Maybe someone that's been around longer than I have can address this, but I believe that the appointment grade for chaplains is because CAP chaplains are called upon, from time to time, to "fill in" for Air Force, NG and ANG units that have deployed chaplains, and need chaplaincy services.

I may be all wet with this understanding!

No...you are dry    Since the CAP Chapain needs to meet the same educational requirements and receive the same ecclessiastical endorsements as active and reserve USAF Chaplains, they are often called upon to serve on bases when there is a deployment or other needs that arise.  The only exception to the CAP Chaplain not being able to perform USAF Chaplain Services are those CAP Chaplains who received the educational waiver (accredited Bachelors plus number of years of ministry experience).  Otherwise CAP Chaplains with accredited Bachelors and M.Divs (or above) can and have served with USAF Chaplains.

[mikeylikey]

If we are "giving" rank based on position and command, then take it away, why give it in the first place?  It means nothing......it means even less when you take it away at the end. 

[BillB]

If all that's considered is the current promotion structure, I agree there needs to be revisions. But, you have major's and LtCol's that earned their grade through the various training programs and duty assignements. Most have been members for 25+ years. Now what do you do with them? Transfer them to Wing so that Wing has 500 Majors and LtCol's on staff? Reduce them in grade to 1Lt?
It looks like the reality of CAP is totally ignored. You can have LtCol's that have completed training through Air War College, have commanded Squadrons and Groups for several years, and you want them out of the way for some unknown reason. I would assume that when a Wing Commander steps down you would reduce him in grade to Captain since he's no longer in a command position.
Many of the ideas expressed here are merely pie-in-the-sky, and would not work in the real world. When a USAF Squadron Commander is transferred to a Group staff position, does he get reduced in grade? So why should a CAP Major/LtCol be reduced in grade because he's no longer in a command position. If a member earns a grade, no matter by what means, it should be permanant. Lets have a reality check here.

[Dragoon]

If we are "giving" rank based on position and command, then take it away, why give it in the first place?  It means nothing......it means even less when you take it away at the end. 

The rank would designate who is in charge, who we call "sir" or "ma'am" and who is responsible for accomplishing the mission.

Same as in the real military.

[Dragoon]

. When a USAF Squadron Commander is transferred to a Group staff position, does he get reduced in grade? So why should a CAP Major/LtCol be reduced in grade because he's no longer in a command position. If a member earns a grade, no matter by what means, it should be permanant. Lets have a reality check here.

When the USAF Squadron Commander is transferred to Group Staff, he goes to a another Lt Col's job - a job deserving of his rank.  He does NOT go to a Captain's job.  That's the problem in CAP - our members often work wayyyyyyyyyyyy below their pay grade.  Which is why our rank means virtually nothing, and is ignored by a large number of our members.  It doesn't indicate responsibility or authority.

[mikeylikey]

How about keeping the rank and grade we have now and changing the pro development program.  The entire program needs overhauled and those geniuses at NHQ should start working for the money they are getting paid.  Develope a program that is exactly like what the AF has in terms of Officer development.  In fact, why not just "borrow"  their program and change words like Air Force to Civil Air Patrol, re-publish it and make it mandatory.  Better yet, ask the AF to develop a CAP specific Officer progression program, that way it would bring CAP and AF closer together.

Years ago (10 plus) the Air Force liaison for my Wing setup courses for CAP members that were instructed by Active Duty, Reserve, NG and Cap members.  IT was very successful.  Usually once per month members could sign up for development courses that were held on various military installations.  At that time the Liaison Officer had a "huge" budget and all expenses were provided by the Government.  After his retirement the program fell away because the Wing Commander did not believe in training in areas that were not part of the five levels of development. 

Those Wing Pro Dev Officers that only do the required SLS, CLS etc should be FIRED.  It is a real disservice to the membership.

[Chief Chiafos]

As I have said on other postings - CAP is schophrenic; are we civilians or military?  Until we decide what we are no meaningful change will ever happen.  Having said that, in regards to NCOs, no Air Force NCO is promoted without college.  I know E-6 tech sergeants with master's degrees - still want to make us officers?

[Chief Chiafos]

For GhostRider,

Re: College required for NCO promotions.  Yes, you are right.  But in my own experience, in my organization (AFOSI), the competition for the rare promotion is so stiff you are compelled to college classes.  Do you need a sheep skin to get promoted, no.  But when almost everyone being reviewed by the promotion board, and I sat on many as a Chief, has a degree, and you don't - your dead meat.

[JohnKachenmeister]

So what happens when the only commissioned officer in a unit steps down from command? Close the unit?

Bingo.  If you establish jobs that only certain folks can do, you have to deal with 2 issues

1.  Some work just won't get done if you don't have the right kind of officer/NCO/FO around to do the work. We can't just transfer someone in against their will.  And if you start "breveting" to fill the slots, we're right back where we are now.  We just don't have the workforce mobility to support this kind of specialization.

2.  If someone no longer wants to do the work, but can keep the rank, you'll end up with folks who attend training to get promoted, but don't ever do the work required of their grade, leading to:

          a.  A bunch of incredibly inexperienced field grades who went to the right schools, but have no decent command or staff experience (meaning, in spite of good PD, they are basically unqualified)

          b.  No motivation to do the work.  What's the carrot for being a Wing Safety officer?  THAT'S our biggest problem - a lack of quality in key positions because you can get all the bennies without actually contributing!

So, if Capt X gets married and finds (to no one's great surprise) he doesn't have the time to continue in command of ABC Comp Sqdn, and decides to step down, giving up his railroad tracks in the process, and no one else in the unit qualifies for a commission, you'd tell 20 cadets (and their parents) and 10 seniors they have to find a new unit because Capt X 'selfishly' decided that his new family was important to him than CAP? Oh, and by the way, the nearest unit is 50+miles away.

That'll do wonders for retention and recruiting.

While this may seem far fetched, it realy isn't. My unit (which is the closest one to me) is 50 miles away.

(Sound of loud whisle bolwing, and yellow flag flies into the air)

Some of you are mis-stating or misunderstanding my proposal.

A TFO and higher can command up to squadron level under my proposed plan.  An FO (entry level) can command a detached flight that is part of a squadron and under their charter, but NOT a separately chartered flight.

All FO's can serve is staff positions at all levels of command if they have the skill and knowledge needed.  I am not trying to tell commanders who to select for positions.  The only jobs barred to FO's are group, wing, region, and national command.

Also, there is no need for FO's to go to level 5 of the PD.  They are fully qualified at level 4. 

The purpose of my proposed plan is to:

1.  Make sure those who wear commissioned rank have credentials appropriate to the status as commissioned officer.  I do this by requiring a BA/BS college degree, but allow for certain exceptions.

2.  Make sure we have adequate numbers of officers to staff our units, knowing that the vast majority of our force does not have the required educational attainment.

3.  Provide incentives to persons who volunteer, beyond "Work hard, spend time away from your family, pay dues, and in a couple of years you might make sergeant!"

And Dragoon, your point is well taken.  We do not demand the same level of responsibility of our Lieutenant Colonels that the Air Force does.  We never will, because we don't have the assets they have.  On the other hand, we demand a lot more from our Lieutenants and Captains than they do.  And your point about the ribbon rack is similarly well taken.  Our award system is a case study in the celebration of mediocrity.

There's nothing to be ashamed of if all the CAP LTC is doing is running O-flights.  It's what he has the time to do, and the cadet program is still an important mission of CAP.  And when is the last time that that USAF colonel took out a rescue team consisting, in part, of 15-year olds? 

[JAFO78]

Kack, and all the others who care about CAP.

After reading the many, many posts about the CAP change talk I have one thing to add. These words are the best I have ever heard. It came from my high school history teacher.

"Don't confuse me with the FACTS, my mind is already made up."


.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Rob:

While it may seem that way, I think everybody has got at least one idea on how to improve CAP.  I like, for example, Dragoon's plan of making everybody Flight Officers, but I don't think that idea will last as long as a snowball in Hell with the membership unless the AF throws us a bone, like REAL warrants.

I thought about the idea of yo-yo officers, wearing LTC rank for your command tour and dropping back to F/O afterwards, but that also sounds like a real tough sell.

I'm still unconvinced that a CAP NCO career track is a good idea, but I'll admit the idea that former cadets could be brought in as NCO's if they are not qualified for officer rank may be a good idea, especially if we establish that they are to be leaders in the cadet program only.  Sort of like CAP T.I.'s. 

[JAFO78]

Kack, I know I was just trying to lighten things up a little. I felt too many people were acting like they had way too much caffeine. Don't want anyone to have a stroke.

I know things will work its self out some day........

[ZigZag911]

Rob:

While it may seem that way, I think everybody has got at least one idea on how to improve CAP.  I like, for example, Dragoon's plan of making everybody Flight Officers, but I don't think that idea will last as long as a snowball in Hell with the membership unless the AF throws us a bone, like REAL warrants.

I thought about the idea of yo-yo officers, wearing LTC rank for your command tour and dropping back to F/O afterwards, but that also sounds like a real tough sell.

I'm still unconvinced that a CAP NCO career track is a good idea, but I'll admit the idea that former cadets could be brought in as NCO's if they are not qualified for officer rank may be a good idea, especially if we establish that they are to be leaders in the cadet program only.  Sort of like CAP T.I.'s. 

John,

I'm still not sure what you mean by a "real" warrant.....what would it mean, exactly? Wouldn't it be, in large measure, an honorary thing? 

As a former cadet officer myself, while I have no problem letting former cadets who did not earn Mitchell have some advanced grade (Sr A, or maybe SSgt), I caution against using them as TIs.....if they lacked the motivation or ability to earn a Mitchell, then they may not be best role modelks or instructors for fledgling cadets....anyway, if they are seniors who recently transitioned from cadet program, they need to be weaned from cadet end of things, introduced to staff work & senior prof dev.

[Major Carrales]

CAP Lt Col:: Nothing, really.  I'm just flying some orientation rides for cadets every couple of months. I'm real busy with other things right now."

USAF Lt Col::  "Wow...I'd hate to see your second lieutenants.  That's a nice rack of 18 ribbons, though..."

CAP Lt Col:: "If you think that this rack is impressive, you should see the certificate my school gave me for being TEACHER of the YEAR."

USAF Lt Col::  "Huh...?"

CAP Lt Col:: "Yeah...this is my 19th Year teaching.  I forgot to tell you that I teach 7th Grade Math.  I'm also active in my Lodge and coach my daughter's softball team."

USAF Lt Col::  "Really?"

CAP Lt Col:: "What's more...after a full day of teaching, coaching, taking care of the family issues I get a call from AFRCC to track down an ELT at 3:00 am.  Then I get home just in time to shower, get dressed and teach another day."

USAF Lt Col::  "And your point is?  I don't understand."

CAP Lt Col:: "I didn't think you would."

Point is CAP and USAF are not similar.  A CAP Officer is a volunteer that does quite a lot actually, with little or no resources and much less funding and no pay.  A USAF officer is a professional Airman (Vandenberg's words) that makes the Defense of his nation his work.

Non-Prior Military CAP officers can't fully understand the "USAF lifestyle angle" which is full time Defense of Civilians and career USAF officers can't fully grasp the "CAP Lifestyle angle"(lest, of course, they are in CAP dating back before their USAF service) which is  part time Civil Defense.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Rob:

While it may seem that way, I think everybody has got at least one idea on how to improve CAP.  I like, for example, Dragoon's plan of making everybody Flight Officers, but I don't think that idea will last as long as a snowball in Hell with the membership unless the AF throws us a bone, like REAL warrants.

I thought about the idea of yo-yo officers, wearing LTC rank for your command tour and dropping back to F/O afterwards, but that also sounds like a real tough sell.

I'm still unconvinced that a CAP NCO career track is a good idea, but I'll admit the idea that former cadets could be brought in as NCO's if they are not qualified for officer rank may be a good idea, especially if we establish that they are to be leaders in the cadet program only.  Sort of like CAP T.I.'s. 

John,

I'm still not sure what you mean by a "real" warrant.....what would it mean, exactly? Wouldn't it be, in large measure, an honorary thing? 

As a former cadet officer myself, while I have no problem letting former cadets who did not earn Mitchell have some advanced grade (Sr A, or maybe SSgt), I caution against using them as TIs.....if they lacked the motivation or ability to earn a Mitchell, then they may not be best role modelks or instructors for fledgling cadets....anyway, if they are seniors who recently transitioned from cadet program, they need to be weaned from cadet end of things, introduced to staff work & senior prof dev.

That's a good point, Zig.  You're right.

What I mean by real warrants is exactly that.  The Air Force does not currently avail itself of the authority of the service secretary to appoint warrant officers.  IF we were to abandon the use of commissioned grades, and at the same time create higher standards for CAP officer membership, one of the alternatives is to award everyone warrant rank.  Backicng that up with an appointment as an Air Force warrant officer would give the USAF direct control of the officer appointment process, expanded supervisory authority over CAP, and at the same time create a vehicle by which serious mission augmentation could take place.

DNall pointed out that the AF does not issue warrants because they would count against their authorized officer totals, but I THINK that consideration would only apply to officers on the payroll.