Member Requested Demotion

[TheDoctor]

Hello all, has anyone ever heard of a situation where a senior member has requested that they themselves be demoted in grade?

[Fubar]

Nope. I would only expect someone who doesn't understand our rank/grade structure to make such a request.

[PHall]

Yep, I've not only heard of it I actually saw it done. There's even a box on the CAP Form 2 to do it.
Just check the box and provide a reason in the comments block and you're good to go.

[TheSkyHornet]

I've only heard of it/seen it when someone requests to go from officer to NCO, which isn't really a demotion in a CAP sense.

Frankly, a demotion is really only when someone is removed from command or a primary staff role.

[PHall]

I've only heard of it/seen it when someone requests to go from officer to NCO, which isn't really a demotion in a CAP sense.

Frankly, a demotion is really only when someone is removed from command or a primary staff role.

The instance I saw it happen was a gentleman who didn't want to be promoted to 2d Lt but his squadron commander promoted him anyway (because everybody wants to be promoted). Guy was ready to quit until he was informed that he didn't have to accept it if he didn't want it.

[TheDoctor]

Thanks for the input.  I have received promotions but starting to feel that I don't need to carry an officers grade just to continue doing my work.  Debating on asking to be demoted from my current grade, just not sure how well it would go over with people.

[SarDragon]

Thanks for the input.  I have received promotions but starting to feel that I don't need to carry an officers grade just to continue doing my work.  Debating on asking to be demoted from my current grade, just not sure how well it would go over with people.

Hang with what you have and move on. Once you get to 1st LT, you have to actually make an effort to do things to advance, so if you don't complete the requirements, you don't promote. I'm perfectly content to remain a Major, and if I hadn't had a persuasive CC, I would still be a Captain.

[TheDoctor]

I'm actually already past 1st LT.  I've just come to belief that I no longer need the wear an officer's grade.  I enjoy what I'm doing but don't need the "perk" of the grade I've earned.  Just trying to get an idea of how things could go down if I end up sending in the F2 requesting I be demoted to SM. 

I'm also giving very few exact details as there are people here on CAPTalk who know me IRL.

[RiverAux]

Seems like a waste of your time to do.  It won't change your CAP life in much way, but will just cause hassle for the folks doing the paperwork and you having to change your uniforms.  Just stick with what you are and save the work. 

[Eclipse]

Seems like a waste of your time to do.  It won't change your CAP life in much way, but will just cause hassle for the folks doing the paperwork and you having to change your uniforms.  Just stick with what you are and save the work. 

This.

Consider also the statement you are making to those who keep their grade.

It'll be heard loud and clear.

[TheSkyHornet]

Seems like a waste of your time to do.  It won't change your CAP life in much way, but will just cause hassle for the folks doing the paperwork and you having to change your uniforms.  Just stick with what you are and save the work. 

This.

Consider also the statement you are making to those who keep their grade.

It'll be heard loud and clear.

I'll add that it creates work for others to request to be demoted. Not only is it paperwork for your admin/personnel team and/or commander, but for NHQ as well.

I guess I'm just not understanding what energy is being exerted to make this an issue at all. You don't want your current grade...? I'm honestly totally confused. Why does it matter? Just don't advance. "I just want to do my job" doesn't require a demotion.

Maybe this is more of a discussion as to whether you want to be in CAP......?

[TheDoctor]

I don't see how the statement that I'm not sure I want to wear an officer's grade any more for my own personal reasons sends any negative issue to others.

As to the energy exerted yes I've earned a specific grade (I had pushed to get it once upon a time) but now yeah I'm thinking I don't want my current grade or any officer's grade, just be a basic SM.

And yes I still want to be an active participant in the program, just not sure if I really need an officer's grade to do that.

[HandsomeWalt_USMC]

I'm gonna be the mean guy here. You're making a big deal out of nothing and creating headaches for something stupid.

If you don't want to wear grade then why not just wear the polo and grey slacks? There's no requirement for you to wear a uniform requiring grade insignia for the majority of CAP activities.

I see no detriment to retaining your grade beyond some (I think) silly personal desire not to wear it. I do see detriments to forcing through a demotion. You asked what negative message it would send. My take is the message would be: your entire system and organizational culture is pointless to me. Look how good I am without wearing grade. You shouldn't want that recognition and outward display of your accomplishments and I am far more humble than you.

If you don't see the need to wear an officer's grade, that's fine. Wear the polo combo and go by your first name. There are plenty of members who do exactly that.

If grade doesn't matter to you then why do you care if Capt/Maj/LtCol are printed on your ID or pop up on eservices? Just don't wear it or use it. Don't create work for others or make a stink about giving up your grade for no good reason. The word will get around about it and it will have negative effects on others both in how they view you and for many others in how they perceive themselves and your opinion of them.

If you were in my squadron I'd tell you that you're being petulant and selfish. You can participate fully without wearing rank and you'd be making everyone's CAP life harder by insisting on this idiocy. If you insist on going through with it then I'd advise you to find another avenue of service. My staff and I have better things to do than deal with one senior member making a stink over something stupid.

Edited for grammar and spelling.

[TheDoctor]

So I think my decision is made.  If the thoughts here hold true with others even though I want to stay part of this organization I'm going to let my membership lapse come March.

[CAP9907]

So I think my decision is made.  If the thoughts here hold true with others even though I want to stay part of this organization I'm going to let my membership lapse come March.

Turns out you were really looking for a way out. And you've found it.

[TheDoctor]

So I think my decision is made.  If the thoughts here hold true with others even though I want to stay part of this organization I'm going to let my membership lapse come March.

Turns out you were really looking for a way out. And you've found it.

I would have been happy and quite content to stay in the program doing my work as SM.  But it seems it's full of too many people who value Grade and Title over the actual work and mission. If that's what this program has become I don't need it.  If I want to deal with politics and personalities like that I'll stick with the Masons. At least there you know to expect stuff like that.

[Angus]

So I think my decision is made.  If the thoughts here hold true with others even though I want to stay part of this organization I'm going to let my membership lapse come March.

Turns out you were really looking for a way out. And you've found it.

I would have been happy and quite content to stay in the program doing my work as SM.  But it seems it's full of too many people who value Grade and Title over the actual work and mission. If that's what this program has become I don't need it.  If I want to deal with politics and personalities like that I'll stick with the Masons. At least there you know to expect stuff like that.

Dude you're still making no sense.  It sounds like you're pretty wishy washy and never fully understood the rank structure of the program.  You also sound like you're really being  hypocrite about it too.  You think you're making yourself look all modest but what you're really saying is "Look at me, I'm better than the rest of you."  Think of what asking for a demotion will say to not only the new seniors joining your unit, but it also says something to the cadets as well. 

[HandsomeWalt_USMC]

So I think my decision is made.  If the thoughts here hold true with others even though I want to stay part of this organization I'm going to let my membership lapse come March.

Well, bye.

[NIN]

I'm locking this one because its going nowhere good in a huge hurry.

Grade/Rank (whichever term you prefer most) amongst senior members is like... , well, if you've been around me you've heard me say this joke.

Grade is a reflection of completion of aspects of our adult training program and a member's potential to assume duties at a higher level. Until you get to colonel, that is.  Then its a reflection of office.

But the point here is: 2nd Lt is emblematic of a member who has received the first bit of training in basic member subjects.  In most cases, a 2nd Lt can spell CAP and might be able to wear the right uniform at the right time.

Do you have to be promoted?  No.  If you don't want to be, then don't be.  "Hey, sir, don't put me in for 1st Lt, mmmkay?"

You can do great things as a 2nd Lt.  But you'll also be possibly seen as someone who is not experienced/trained/familiar with how CAP works until you prove otherwise.  You might be a Level IV-complete 2nd Lt and that's OK: then you might then be the most CAP-savvy 2nd Lt in the organization.  People might not realize that, but whatever. Their loss.

But if you're a pilot and all you wanna do is drive those planes like Tom Cruise, then great: 2nd Lt is just fine. Put you polo shirt on and go to town.

At the same time, don't be that person who is Level 1 complete, never took another bit of CAP-oriented education & training, and then is constantly complaining that "CAP should do X" or "the AF doesn't do Y" when those are things you'd know neither org can do if you had more training in "the ways of CAP."

I won't be quite so dismissive of a member who doesn't want a promotion, but CAP isn't going to bend to the ways of the individual so much as require the individual to bend.