Seniority

Daniel · July 06, 2009, 08:35:02 PM

I was wondering (i mean nothing by this.) but.. how is a cadet supposed to deal with new senoir members?

MIKE · July 06, 2009, 08:53:40 PM

As a C/A1C you are not senior to even the most junior senior member. That being said, Senior Members without grade are not officers either.

Daniel · July 06, 2009, 08:56:02 PM

Quote from: MIKE on July 06, 2009, 08:53:40 PM
As a C/A1C you are not senior to even the most junior senior member. That being said, Senior Members without grade are not officers either.

Sure, I see that but I have something bothering me right now its just hard to formulate words when I'm worked up.

capchiro · July 06, 2009, 08:58:04 PM

With all due respect. All senior members outrank any cadet member. Your question is very vague. What do you really mean by your question?

BrandonKea · July 06, 2009, 08:59:52 PM

This isn't what it seems.

Cadet, what is the problem. Keep it vague, and remember your comments are in a public forum.

Daniel · July 06, 2009, 09:00:24 PM

You know I just... don't wanna talk about it. Close this thread please
(delete if you can.)

Camas · July 06, 2009, 09:11:53 PM

Quote from: Daniel L on July 06, 2009, 08:35:02 PM
I was wondering (i mean nothing by this.) but.. how is a cadet supposed to deal with new senoir members?

The same way you deal with any senior member. My guess is that your contact with most senior members will be somewhat limited unless they're directly involved with cadet programs and, even then, you should be going through the chain-of-command unless you're the cadet commander or hold another leadership position within your unit.

Quote from: MIKE on July 06, 2009, 08:53:40 PM
As a C/A1C you are not senior to even the most junior senior member. That being said, Senior Members without grade are not officers either.

You're technically not required to salute a new member unless he or she is a flight officer or holds the grade of 2nd lieutenant or higher though I know in some squadrons in my wing cadets salute all seniors regardless.

Quote from: Daniel L on July 06, 2009, 09:00:24 PM
You know I just... don't wanna talk about it. Close this thread please
(delete if you can.)

You're the one who brought it up. And you bring up a good point as I'm sure many cadets may have the same concern. It's simply a case of respect towards all senior members by all cadets regardless of grade. And, of course, you'll receive and earn the respect of seniors in return when they acknowledge your salutes and your accomplishments within CAP. It's a two-way street, isn't it?

LtCol Hooligan · July 06, 2009, 09:58:55 PM

Daniel- give them time to learn about the program. Perhaps you can even offer help if the situation presents itself. Most senior members who are new to the program are just as scared of you as you are of them. They are afraid you will salute them and they will not know what to do. They are afraid they are not wearing their uniform right and you are laughing at them. Now, approach the situation delicately as you are a teenager approaching an adult and you should give that person respect. You never know they may appreciate it.

I cannot end without saying that yes, there are some senior members who thrive off getting the salutes and going full metal jacket on cadets and they think they are right. This should immediately be brought up to your commander so it stops as soon as possible. CAP should have discipline and enthusiasm in it, but no one should EVER be hazed or harassed by any other member- period. If this is happening, don't go be afraid to take it directly to your commander so he/she can help you. Your commander may be able to decrease this senior members enthusiasm and help them to become a valuable member of the unit.

capchiro · July 06, 2009, 10:17:02 PM

Daniel, you can contact me by e-mail if you would like. Obviously there is a problem you need to discuss. If I can't help you, I will refer you to my wife. She is the Wing legal officer if you need legal info. If you're just frustrated, contact me and we will talk. I am pro cadet and will help you.

Major Lord · July 06, 2009, 11:16:45 PM

Daniel,

Remain calm, all of us have problems with new S/M's, Ordinarily, you just treat a non-cadet program senior member with the ordinary respect you treat any S/M. Your post has us worried, since it could be any kind of problem, and you don't want to discuss it further, which makes us worry even more! If your SQ has a Chaplain, you can talk to them in virtually complete confidence. If you are having problems with a new S/M, help us work it out before it grows out of control. CAP makes mistakes in taking on new Seniors all the time, and if one is a problem for you, they will probably be a problem for someone else too. You can contact CapChiro, and I am sure he will help or be able to point you in the right direction. You can PM me or e-mail me ( www.alordnapa@aol.com) and I will treat our contact as totally off the record.

Major Lord

LtCol057 · July 07, 2009, 03:19:22 AM

Daniel, for what it's worth, some of us senior members wonder how to deal with new senior members ourselves. If we give them too much info all at one time, they might go screaming into the night, never to be seen again. Granted, I've seen some that I wished would go screaming into the night because I would NOT start a mission to find them. I don't need a find ribbon that bad.

Everyone here is willing to help you. Like some of the suggestions say, speak to your commander (going thru your chain of command first) or your chaplain. Their job is to help you with any problems you have. If that doesn't work, feel free to PM any of the members on this thread.

Ozzy · July 07, 2009, 04:32:47 AM

And Daniel, if you want to talk to another cadet, you can PM or send me an email (saxtonkid@yahoo.com). Sometimes it's hard to talk to Senior Members because it can feel like it'd be hard for them to relate, but a cadet could be easier to talk with. I'm here if you need me.

DBlair · July 07, 2009, 07:43:58 PM

Daniel-

As a former Cadet in a Composite Squadron and now the Leadership Officer of a Cadet Squadron, I've encountered some 'interesting' and sometimes-difficult members (both Cadets & SMs) and have had to deal with these situations.

If you'd like to discuss the situation with me, perhaps I can offer some guidance as to how to deal with whatever it is that may be happening. As a young SM who was a former Cadet, my Cadets find that I can relate to them as I've been there and have experienced things from both (Cadet/SM) sides- and am still young enough to remember what it was like to be a Cadet. The Cadet Program is very important to me and I'd like to help however I can.

On this site, you'll find a lot of great members who can certainly help you with whatever the problem may be. Regardless of whether you discuss it with me or any other members of this site, I do urge you to speak to someone as it seems to be something that upset/frustrated you and so it should be addressed.

EMT-83 · July 07, 2009, 10:45:09 PM

Back to the original question, a C/A1C shouldn't really have to deal with new senior members. Unless a new SM is made DCC, even contact with cadet staff should be minimal.

Obviously we don't know the details, but that's what the chain of command is all about.

Flying Pig · July 08, 2009, 12:01:57 PM

Ill take it at face value from what your post said. It sounds as if you were of the belief that cadets had seniority over newer Senior Members. They dont. If you hav an issue with a new Senior Member, go through your chain, or contact one of these members on the board who offered to assist you via PM. But I would think its something you shold address with your unit leadership.

Good Luck. And remember, CAP is supossed to be fun!

Major Lord · July 08, 2009, 03:22:56 PM

I think that most of us who have been around the Cadet Program for a while have seen brand-new Senior Members ( especially former military) get a bit, shall we say, heavy handed when they are assigned to the cadet program. These problems can include things like bypassing the cadet chain of command, odd or innapropriate terms of art from other branches of the service ( and who among us has not heard a Senior Member call the floor the "deck" or refer to the service dress uniform as the "class A" ?) and otherwise startle, baffle, and bewilder our little badgers? I don't think its fair to assess the Cadets' post as an assertion of his "Seniority" over a S/M, but if that is what he did mean, than letting the post drop as requested and answered (in volume) is the right thing to do. If he meant that an overzealous S/M is going Gunny Hartman, it would be nice to know before it turns to bloodshed.....

Major Lord

CadetPrograms074 · July 09, 2009, 08:24:17 PM

C/A1C Lewis,

It looks like this is an important issue for you, and must be addressed as soon as possible. Take the members' advice and PM or e-mail them for further assistance. I am no stranger to the Cadet Program. I was a Cadet Captain and Cadet Commander of my Squadron and of my Wing's Encampment. If you need anything, just let me know.

Semper Vigilans,

Lt. Provost