National Must be Joking, Right?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

From CAP Safety Newsletter, "The Safety Beacon"
During the Winter National Board of Civil Air Patrol held in February 2010, at Washington D.C., a safety summit was held where commanders of CAP were asked in an open floor forum, "Where is the next mishap going to occur in CAP?" The responses were:
Prediction
Number of Occurrences since the prediction Cadet Injury - Unsupervised Physical Activity >1
CPFT Injury (3X)
10+ Cadet Injury at Basic Encampment (3X) 10+
Cadet Injury at a Cadet Activity (2X)
10+ Cadet Fall on Ice >2
Bodily Injury at this Activity (SM) (2X)
1 SM Fall on Ice >1
Cadet Blisters
10+ If
We Do our Job - ZERO Still waiting

Does the NB really think that putting a safety committee together and ask them to make predictions is going to stop accidents or injuries? What they fail to see, is that no matter what there is always the potential for injury and accidents to happen. It is just the nature of being human. However, we should still remain safety conscious at all times, That does prevent most injuries and accidents. However No matter what if you are safety conscious 100% of the time you will not be able to prevent ALL accidents and injuries. It is just not possible. It doesn't matter if it is at the regular CAP weekly meeting taking a test. A chair could have a structural failure and the cadet could bash his/her head on the concrete floor, it doesn't matter where, injury has the potential to happen no matter how safety conscious you are.
PVT MURPHY'S LAW!

[tsrup]

It's not a bad idea.  I mean the content for our safety briefings has to come from somewhere.  If they get together and figure out what our biggest or next safety concern is they should address it. 
If one person avoids slipping on the ice as a direct relation to something that was covered in a safety briefing then it's done it's job. 

I don't think anyone is asking National to be oracles and predict the future, just make an educated guess of what is likely to happen.

It's a proactive response to a topic that in the past has been largely reactive.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

But to say that if they make these predictions, and they do their job, then we will have ZERO accidents is going way too far. There is no way to prevent all accidents short of not letting any members off the couch for the whole year. Oh, wait then we get bed sores, well there went the ZERO accident goal. I agree we should shoot for zero, but to say that if there is one, ONE accident then no one is doing their job is insulting.

[bosshawk]

Being of a mind to present blunt facts, I would suggest that if we are serious about eliminating at least 75% of our safety incidents, we should shut down the cadet program.  That is where we have the most safety incidents.

[BillB]

The safety briefings must be working. Florida Wing has never had an accident of a cadet or senior slipping on ice.

[James Shaw]

Does the NB really think that putting a safety committee together and ask them to make predictions is going to stop accidents or injuries?

As someone who has worked in Environmetal Safety & Health for the past 25 years I would have to say Yes!!

There are always certain trends that can be identified through these types of groups. This of course will depend on the group and some of there backgrounds. It is not a prediciton persay but a statistical probability that an event will occur based on the inputed data. It is a very good way to try and be proactive in keeping people safe. Can it stop accidents "No" but it can help identify the probability of where some of them can be prevented. Nothing can stop an accident as long as "humans" are involved.

I think it is a great thing to do and would be interested in seeing the info myself. I have done these types of things for many years and the return far outweighs the cost. I would have to commend National about this. When I get emails from Gen Courter the first thing that is in her signature is "Keep Safety First". They set the expectation and bar high and we work towards it.

It's a proactive response to a topic that in the past has been largely reactive.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

The safety briefings must be working. Florida Wing has never had an accident of a cadet or senior slipping on ice.

Ok I have had my limit I am coming to Florida and hitting you with a block of ice. 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Does the NB really think that putting a safety committee together and ask them to make predictions is going to stop accidents or injuries?

As someone who has worked in Environmetal Safety & Health for the past 25 years I would have to say Yes!!

So your saying that if we are doing our jobs then no one will get hurt. While at the same time if ONE person gets hurt then we aren't doing our jobs?

Who in their right mind would want to get rid of the Cadet Program? If you don't want to worry about the cadets and work with them, then you should either get out of CAP completely, or transfer to an all Senior Squadron! So long as humans are involved, you are right, so long as humans are involved there will be accidents and injuries. So how can they say that if we are doing our job no one will get hurt? There will always be at least one person hurt a year. If there ever goes a year where there are no injuries reported, it is because no one reported them.

[Flying Pig]

I just fell out of my chair reading all of this.  Does that count as an injury?

[HGjunkie]

I just fell out of my chair reading all of this.  Does that count as an injury?

Only if you got rugburn...  :angel:

[EMT-83]

The safety briefings must be working. Florida Wing has never had an accident of a cadet or senior slipping on ice.

Not even when frozen adult beverages were involved? Are you sure?

[James Shaw]

Never said to eliminate anything especially Cadet Programs.

Most root cause analysis indicate that 95% of incidents and accidents are "personal accountability".

The focus has to be the people, the system is there as a guide to support the people.

If one of my co-workers gets injured I feel like I have failed in my job. If the root cause comes back to them then I feel they have failed at theirs.

I personally feel that anyone in the safety track should be in the safety field outside of CAP.

[Chappie]

Suggesting that NHQ increase its budget to supply each unit with adequate rolls of bubble wrap to encase the membership to prevent bodily injuries. 

[bosshawk]

Chappy: maybe NHQ could pay for rubber rooms for everyone, like most of CA seems to favor.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Safety is a really big issue, especially in CAP with the ES mission, we all know that. The only problem is that some people think that safety is the answer to everything or they think it should be our only mission. I am definitely all in favor of the idea of putting a cadet in each squadron into the safety officer assistant role, that makes it to where the cadets get a better view of the aspects of safety and how it pertains to CAP. The thing that we don't need is National telling us that we aren't doing our job. Everyone that I have come across in CAP is very safety conscious and on the lookout for things that are unsafe and hazardous. National seems to think that if we are doing our job then no one would get hurt, but because there are people getting hurt then that means that no one is doing their job. We face safety every day in CAP, for some reason National doesn't realize that we face it at every meeting and activity and that we do everything we can to mitigate hazards and potential safety threats, and that we really do everything that we can to keep everyone safe and healthy. There are just some things that cannot be avoided.

[JC004]

Cadet blisters?  Seriously?  If they do their jobs, nobody will get blisters? 

This is the same rubbish as that which spawned the thread about the cadet who was attacked by the tree root.  Accidents...will...happen.  Their job is to reduce them as much as possible and to minimize their impact. 

People will not take the safety mandates, newsletters, memos and such seriously if they aren't in sync with reality. 

Nobody thinks (except maybe National?) that they'll be able to prevent every blister nationwide.  So people will read this sort of thing and think "yeah, whatever..."

[JeffDG]

So long as people accept that zero accidents is not possible, accidents will occur.  A change in attitude is necessary where people accept that zero is not only possible, but the only acceptable situation.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

So long as people accept that zero accidents is not possible, accidents will occur.  A change in attitude is necessary where people accept that zero is not only possible, but the only acceptable situation.

Those who think that ALL accidents can be prevented needs to check back into reality. So i take it you have never had a cut or broken bone or rash sprained ankle twisted ankle sore knees or any thing? Not even a paper cut?

[FlyTiger77]

So long as people accept that zero accidents is not possible, accidents will occur.  A change in attitude is necessary where people accept that zero is not only possible, but the only acceptable situation.

Those who think that ALL accidents can be prevented needs to check back into reality. So i take it you have never had a cut or broken bone or rash sprained ankle twisted ankle sore knees or any thing? Not even a paper cut?

As one who is firmly rooted in reality, I think the point would be better stated as: "With proper forethought, the circumstances leading to the cut, broken bone, rash (is that really a safety issue?), sprained ankle, twisted ankle, etc,. may have been avoided and it is worth the effort to learn to avoid those circumstances as much as possible."

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Yes, avoid them as much as possible, yet no matter how hard you try to avoid them, there is still the possibility that it will happen.

[SarDragon]

NJ DMV used to (and still may) put a sentence on the back of the inspection stickers, visible and readable from the inside - "Accidents don't happen; they are caused."

I believed that to be true then; I still do. Weather events happen. Earthquakes happen. Neither are preventable. Almost all accidents have a determined, preventable cause. Somewhere along the way, something could have been done differently to prevent the accident.

CAP, and other organizations, practice ORM in an effort to improve safety and prevent accidents. Almost everything we do has risk involved. Evaluating that risk, and taking measures to reduce it, improve our ability to operate safely.

Cadet trips on tree root - he needs to pay better attention to where he's putting his feet. Senior member gets stung by a bee - he needs to stay farther from the bees, and not annoy them. Big-ass geese fly into your engines and cause both to flame out - that's a tough one to figure out. But, I think most accidents are preventable.

YMMV.