Squadron names vs numbers

[flyguy06]

I dont know if this question has been asked before or not.

But why is it in the last five years or so, when people refer to their squadrons, they ivee numbers instead of the actual name of the squadron? We didnt used to do this and I dont really like it.

I wanted to visit this members unit onetime and I asked him what unit he was in. He told me GA-129. I had no idea if that was in Atlanta or if it was in Savannah which is 300 miles away.

Isnt it easier just to say Savannah Composite Squadron. that way the person knows exactly what and where you are talking about. I understand the purpose for having numbers but in conversation I think its easier to tell the person the name of your unit to help them out.

[isuhawkeye]

How would you prefer to refer to a squadron


1. the 91st
2. Central Iowa Composite Squadron (proper name)
3.  The Ames Composite Squadron (not the proper name)
4. The Doug Jansen memorial Squadron (also not the proper name)
5.  Those meddling kids...

The city the squadron is housed does not necessarily reflect the name

[MIKE]

I dont know if this question has been asked before or not.

It has... Kinda.

Isnt it easier just to say Savannah Composite Squadron. that way the person knows exactly what and where you are talking about. I understand the purpose for having numbers but in conversation I think its easier to tell the person the name of your unit to help them out.

Not all units use that naming convention, although that would appear to be the preferred method per CAPR 20-3.

5. c. A proposed name for the unit. Unit names must include the following elements:
1) Identifying prefix - a short identifier, preferably associated with location (example: Shamrock, Dayton, Hot Springs, Midville, etc.). DO NOT use names such as "Black Sheep," "Flying Tigers," etc., or terms descriptive of major functions such as "Communications," "Jeep," or "Rescue," etc.
2) Type of unit (group, cadet squadron, senior squadron, composite squadron, or flight).
...

My preference would be for a standardized and assigned named/numbered units.  I like numbered units for portability purposes... but you could still have a city or town to associate with the unit, but it would not be officially part of the designator.

[RiverAux]

Most squadrons use geographic names though they all also have the state-numeric identifier as well. 

[mikeylikey]

Well anyone here remember when SQD's used 5 numbers.  The first two indicated wing, the last three were charter.  MUCH harder then.  At least nowthey give you the state the unit is located in.

However, I do agree we should use 2 digit identifiers for SQD's.  Say " 21st Georgia SQD".

[SarDragon]

And then we have the CAWG version - I'm in Sq 57, but the charter number is CA 256. At least we don't use the charter numbers for normal discussion. I prefer real names, since that's what I grew up with, and it's easier for me to make associations between names and locations that way.

[Eclipse]

Well anyone here remember when SQD's used 5 numbers.  The first two indicated wing, the last three were charter.  MUCH harder then.  At least nowthey give you the state the unit is located in.

However, I do agree we should use 2 digit identifiers for SQD's.  Say " 21st Georgia SQD".

Some were not as hard as others - IL, for example, was "11", so on most typewriters of the period it looked the same letter or number.

[Stonewall]

All 3 of the squadrons I've been a member of have all been named after the city or county.

Jacksonville Composite Squadron
Fairfax Composite Squadron
Mount Vernon Composite Squadron

In National Capital Wing, all of the Virginia and Maryland located squadrons followed suit.  Only in DC did they stray from this standard.  Tuskegee and Challenger Squadrons.  But of course, there is now only one squadron left in DC propper.  Surprised NATCAP wing didn't get sucked into MD and VA wings.

[flyguy06]

Well anyone here remember when SQD's used 5 numbers.  The first two indicated wing, the last three were charter.  MUCH harder then.  At least nowthey give you the state the unit is located in.

However, I do agree we should use 2 digit identifiers for SQD's.  Say " 21st Georgia SQD".

I remember that. GA was 09 and AL was 08. It was easy for me. But that wasnt the name of the unit. It was the unit ID. Nowadays people introduce their unit by a number and that is confusing to me.

[flyguy06]

All 3 of the squadrons I've been a member of have all been named after the city or county.

Jacksonville Composite Squadron
Fairfax Composite Squadron
Mount Vernon Composite Squadron

In National Capital Wing, all of the Virginia and Maryland located squadrons followed suit.  Only in DC did they stray from this standard.  Tuskegee and Challenger Squadrons.  But of course, there is now only one squadron left in DC propper.  Surprised NATCAP wing didn't get sucked into MD and VA wings.

I was actually going to make a thread asking that question. You dont really here much about the DC wing. i am in DC now visiting relatives. I wondered how many units were in DCWG

[Stonewall]

3 in Virginia
1 in Maryland
1 in DC

2 Middle School programs (which I don't count)

When I first got to DC Wing in late 1992, there were 3 in VA, 3 in MD and 3 in DC.  Looks like the 3 on the VA side (my side) is doing well.

http://natcapwg.cap.gov/units

[flyguy06]

Wow. Seven Squadrons in the entire Wing. I have never heard of a wing that small bt I am sure RI and DE arent very far behind. That beckons another question unrelated to this thread.

The CAWG CC and the DCWG CC are the same rank yet have very differant commands

[Cecil DP]

3 in Virginia
1 in Maryland
1 in DC

2 Middle School programs (which I don't count)

When I first got to DC Wing in late 1992, there were 3 in VA, 3 in MD and 3 in DC.  Looks like the 3 on the VA side (my side) is doing well.

http://natcapwg.cap.gov/units

[lordmonar]

I was commander of the 113th Cadet Squadron, Misawa.  NHQ-OS-113.

I could care less one way of the other.

However, geographical names are good sometimes....The Nellis Senior Squadron....does not meet on Nellis AFB...but they still maintain offices there.  But so does the Clark County Senior Squadron.

I really hate "named" squadrons.  I mean it is all well and good you want to honor some person or idea....but 1/2 the time the squadron has little or no real connection with the honoree or no one outside of the squadron know who they are.

Numbers are more portable.  If the unit moves 5 miles to the next town it is easier to change the letter head.

[Psicorp]

It does get confusing, doesn't it?

The squadron where I spent my Cadet career was unit 08435.  For years it didn't have an official name.  We met on Tyndall AFB, so we started calling ourselves the "435th TCTS" (Tyndall Cadet Training Squadron).   

Now of course I'm in MI where we're the Scott M. Burgess Composite Squadron and GLR-MI-257.   It used to be called the "Capital Squadron", just to add to the confusion.

[lordmonar]

It does get confusing, doesn't it?

The squadron where I spent my Cadet career was unit 08435.  For years it didn't have an official name.  We met on Tyndall AFB, so we started calling ourselves the "435th TCTS" (Tyndall Cadet Training Squadron).   

Now of course I'm in MI where we're the Scott M. Burgess Composite Squadron and GLR-MI-257.   It used to be called the "Capital Squadron", just to add to the confusion.

Question 1.  Who is Scot M. Burgess?
Question 2.  Why was it the "Capitol Squadron"?

Unless you know the capitols of all 50 states.....I would not know what city you were in.

[stillamarine]

IMHO I like the idea of having charter number for admin purposes, but to designate squadron's I like the charter number plus the type of unit type.

ie.

charter number SER-FL-425
Unit Name 425th Composite Squadron

Like I said I think it sounds good

Technically we are Pensacola Composite Squadron though

[SarDragon]

I was commander of the 113th Cadet Squadron, Misawa.  NHQ-OS-113.

But when it was my squadron, it was the Misawa Cadet Squadron, charter # 99113. Somebody got frisky with a CAPF 27.

As for the Q on people's names, vice location names, most of the units here in CAWG that have non-location names make perfect sense, usually honoring a former member of the unit, as do a couple of the numbers - 1986 and 6750.

[Cobra1597]

Would you like to always say "Lt Col Frank Pocher Minute Man Squadron"? 

Then again, I usually say "Minute Man", and half of the wing staff that knew Lt Col Pocher just call us "Frank Pocher".

[jimmydeanno]

3 in Virginia
1 in Maryland
1 in DC

2 Middle School programs (which I don't count)

When I first got to DC Wing in late 1992, there were 3 in VA, 3 in MD and 3 in DC.  Looks like the 3 on the VA side (my side) is doing well.

http://natcapwg.cap.gov/units

Boy...sounds like that wing shouldn't even exist.  There is only 1 squadron in the geographical boundaries of DC?  Using that logic there is better justification for a New York State Wing and a New York City Wing.

[off topic]
Brings up an interesting point of discussion though...what about ditching the "geographical limits" approach to wings.  For example, say RI only has 3 squadrons - really it should be a group, so you'd have some Lt Col running the three squadrons in RI who reported to a Wing CC that was in command of RI, Eastern MA, NH and ME...

This would then help with the selection of better Wing CCs/corporate officers because you wouldn't feel obligated to select from 2 1st Lts from RI as your next Wing CC.[/off topic]