Routine Vehicle Maintenance

Started by Stonewall, July 17, 2020, 01:22:42 AM

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Stonewall

You're a vehicle custodian. It's time for routine maintenance (oil change, tire rotation, and inspection), what the next step?

Do you have the latitude to simply schedule and get the work done and use the fleet credit card thing?

Or do you have to first get an estimate for the routine maintenance, submit that estimate to wing, wait for approval, then schedule the service?

What's your wing's operating procedure for this type of maintenance?
Serving since 1987.

arajca

Routine maintenance, as long as it's below $200, does not need to be approved to use the EFS card.

National is pretty good about approving maintenance as needed.

My wing - get it done as needed, subject to the $200 limit.

Make sure to upload the receipt to ORMS under the vehicle's Maintenance tab. Your wing may have some staff personnel who need to receive copies of the receipt as well. Mine - the wing administrator and transportation officer.

kcebnaes

Well, as you probably know, we get an estimate for any and ALL expense, regardless of the amount; send to wing/LGT; then wing/LGT then approves it, and then we can use the EFS card.

I really like that $200 limit rule that arajca mentioned. That makes total sense for things like oil changes, wipers, etc.
Sean Beck, Maj, CAP
Great Lakes Region sUAS Officer
Various Other Things™

arajca

The $200 limit is built into the card from National.

Has the wing/LGT refused a sub-$200 repair/service?

kcebnaes

Nope. We just HAVE to get an estimate and approval before ANY work is completed.. (Stonewall and I are the same wing.)
Sean Beck, Maj, CAP
Great Lakes Region sUAS Officer
Various Other Things™

NIN

Quote from: kcebnaes on July 17, 2020, 12:10:28 PMWell, as you probably know, we get an estimate for any and ALL expense, regardless of the amount; send to wing/LGT; then wing/LGT then approves it, and then we can use the EFS card.

I really like that $200 limit rule that arajca mentioned. That makes total sense for things like oil changes, wipers, etc.

I could be wrong (I have been in the past), but I think we're limited to $500, except for tires.
 
My Wing LGT wouldn't stand for that much rigamarole on something like an oil change or wiper blades. Nor would my units.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
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Stonewall

Quote from: kcebnaes on July 17, 2020, 01:39:15 PMNope. We just HAVE to get an estimate and approval before ANY work is completed.. (Stonewall and I are the same wing.)

Right, so I am looking for some best practices in an effort to propose a better and more streamlined way of doing business in this area within our wing.

I know one wing has a $500 threshold before requiring "approval" and several wings have $200. I had to get a cost estimate for a stand oil change and tire rotation that totaled $57 before I could schedule the appointment for such work.

Last year, a squadron van required a new battery. Instead of me grabbing a battery at AutoZone and putting it in myself (or with their help, because they offer that), I had to take the van to the dealership, drop it off, have them run a diagnostic to identify what everyone already knew, then have the dealer forward an OFFICIAL estimate to wing, BEFORE they could replace the battery. In all, it took WAY TOO LONG to get the approval from Wing LG and then cost WAY TOO MUCH for a job that my 12 year old son knows how to do.
Serving since 1987.

TheSkyHornet

The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.

kcebnaes

I fully agree. There's like two layers of extra work we have to do, that I thought was normal.It clearly isn't..

Stonewall-same thing for me with WIPERS a year or so ago. Needed wipers, couldn't change myself, had to get an estimate. 
Sean Beck, Maj, CAP
Great Lakes Region sUAS Officer
Various Other Things™

Stonewall

Can someone point to the reg that states the cost threshold for approval? Some say NHQ allows anything under $200 does not require pre-approval.

Looking for the official guidance.
Serving since 1987.

arajca

I could be wrong about the standard card limit. I do usually get a quote for tires and haven't had a problem.

jeders

In Texas, things like oil change, tire rotation, etc are considered minor mx and can be paid with the NHQ card up to $250.00 without any preapproval. Anything that is major mx (which includes batteries for some reason) requires preapproval from wing, which can take anywhere from hours to weeks.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Stonewall on July 17, 2020, 05:25:55 PMCan someone point to the reg that states the cost threshold for approval? Some say NHQ allows anything under $200 does not require pre-approval.

Looking for the official guidance.

The official guidance is that the burden is on the WINGS to prove why a procedure isn't a burden to the membership.

CAPR 1-2:

5. Relevance, Efficiency and Sustainability. All directive publications or revisions thereof, to include prescribed forms, should be mindful of any additional administrative burden to CAP volunteers or employees. Therefore, OPRs must consider relevance, efficiency and sustainability of directive requirements when developing regulations, supplements and OIs.

Now let's look at your wing to see what procedure they created in OHWG:

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/publications/approved-supplements-and-ois-by-region/great-lakes-region-supplements-and-ois

Hmm. Nothing there that I can see on this subject.

So where is this process defined? Why isn't it in a supplement?

Stonewall

I just called and spoke to a program manager at NHQ who handles this stuff - her name and number is on the slide deck so I decided to ask.

"Routine maintenance like oil changes and tire rotations don't need prior approval and the threshold for prior approval is $500."

Also, "why would you need to get an estimate approved for something as simple as an oil change?"

Good question, ma'am.
Serving since 1987.

PHall

Quote from: Stonewall on July 17, 2020, 07:00:55 PMI just called and spoke to a program manager at NHQ who handles this stuff - her name and number is on the slide deck so I decided to ask.

"Routine maintenance like oil changes and tire rotations don't need prior approval and the threshold for prior approval is $500."

Also, "why would you need to get an estimate approved for something as simple as an oil change?"

Good question, ma'am.

Call her back and ask if she could arrange to have an email sent to ALL wings reminding them that prior approval is not required for routine maintenance.

Stonewall

Okay, my intent is NOT to complain here, but to work on a better practice in my wing when it comes to routine vehicle maintenance.

Following a back and forth email dialogue with the LGT for my wing, he sent this email out.

QuoteWe are making some adjustments to the process you follow in requesting an approval for regular maintenance visits of less than $100.

To avoid the necessity of a trip to the auto service facility to obtain a formal estimate, you may:

1. Phone the facility for an email estimate and send that to us.
2. Scan an ad and send that to us.
3. Email us, and request the dollar amount needed, based on your previous experience.

When using this type of estimate, please provide the name, address and phone number of the facility you intend to use.  Be sure to provide a list of the work you intend to have completed.

This does not change any other part of the maintenance procedure.  If you have any questions, please let us know.

We are in hopes that this adjustment will make your job of caring for a vehicle a bit easier.

I'm trying to collect data and maybe some feedback from other wings to see what works best, because this process, in my opinion, is far too convoluted and unnecessary for routine maintenance such as oil changes, battery replacement, and wiper blades.
Serving since 1987.

Eclipse

Quote from: PHall on July 17, 2020, 07:07:20 PMprior approval is not required for routine maintenance.

This is only relevent where prior approval by the Wing is not required.

"That Others May Zoom"

arajca

Quote from: Stonewall on July 18, 2020, 05:40:39 PMOkay, my intent is NOT to complain here, but to work on a better practice in my wing when it comes to routine vehicle maintenance.

Following a back and forth email dialogue with the LGT for my wing, he sent this email out.

QuoteWe are making some adjustments to the process you follow in requesting an approval for regular maintenance visits of less than $100.

To avoid the necessity of a trip to the auto service facility to obtain a formal estimate, you may:

1. Phone the facility for an email estimate and send that to us.
2. Scan an ad and send that to us.
3. Email us, and request the dollar amount needed, based on your previous experience.

When using this type of estimate, please provide the name, address and phone number of the facility you intend to use.  Be sure to provide a list of the work you intend to have completed.

This does not change any other part of the maintenance procedure.  If you have any questions, please let us know.

We are in hopes that this adjustment will make your job of caring for a vehicle a bit easier.

I'm trying to collect data and maybe some feedback from other wings to see what works best, because this process, in my opinion, is far too convoluted and unnecessary for routine maintenance such as oil changes, battery replacement, and wiper blades.
The term "micromanager" springs front and center. While I understand and appreciate trying to keep maintenance costs under control (I work for a fleet maintenance facility at a resort), this kind of crap is ridiculous, especially when the folks paying the bills specifically say they don't care about preapproving maintenance costs under $500.

PHall

Quote from: Eclipse on July 18, 2020, 05:53:24 PM
Quote from: PHall on July 17, 2020, 07:07:20 PMprior approval is not required for routine maintenance.

This is only relevent where prior approval by the Wing is not required.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 18, 2020, 05:53:24 PM
Quote from: PHall on July 17, 2020, 07:07:20 PMprior approval is not required for routine maintenance.

This is only relevent where prior approval by the Wing is not required.

But is it required in this wing? According to the poster and a quick look at the approved supplements page, there is no written requirement for a pre-approval. Matter of fact there is nothing at all. If the wing is going to require a pre-approval then they're going to have to put out some kind of instruction saying that it's required.

Eclipse

^Kinda missed the point.

No one in this thread is new enough not to know of Wing staff who simply make up
policies on the fly, which then couple with uninformed members who simply do
what seems "must be right" even if it isn't.

In some cases the staffer themselves are operating under a wive's tale that predated them
and will live until some cracks a regs or says "no".


"That Others May Zoom"