Draft 52-18 (Cadet Physical Fitness Program) Posted

[ranger0305]

Why?   What does being a faster runner, able to do more push ups or curl ups have to do with being a better leader?

Directly perhaps it doesn't, in my opinion however achieving a challenging physical test shows commitment.

Does anyone know why they changed the form of curl-ups? Is it supposed to be some back saver thing also? The new form seems extremely easy to me, which goes back to my point above. So perhaps they geared this new program toward your thinking Lordmonar. I am sure in many cases you are right on your point about PT not having do do anything with leadership, its just my opinion. One thing we do that does require somewhat good physical condition is ground team. Without having a fitness test for the first rank will we be putting cadets who cant walk a mile or two on a ground team?
I am not trying to bash the new program just trying to understand it better.

Thanks,
Ranger.

[lordmonar]

A.  Not my program
B. The current CFPT is putting cadets who can't walk a mile or two on ground teams. And since there is no similar test for seniors your point is null and void.
C. Sticking with the cadet program and the time in grade requirement shows commitment.

To Arajca:  I have seen that too but that was either the old arbitrary percentile standards.   This new standard seems much more sensible and achievable. 

[winnipegbarley]

And part of that is basing our standards on the documented results of thousands of assessments administered to millions of young people in the CAP cadet age-group.  Not old standards and test from decades before videogames, mobile devices, and ubiquitous fast food, but real measurements of middle and high school students today.

Physical fitness standards need to be lowered because the general population has adopted a lot of unhealthy habits? That doesn't sound right...

[LSThiker]

Does anyone know why they changed the form of curl-ups?

CAP changed the curl-ups in order to meet the standards presented in the Presidential Youth Fitness Program.  If the current method of performing the curl-ups was used, then the standards used in the PYFP could not be applied since the forms are different. 

Now if you are asking why the PYFP is using this form as opposed to other forms, then the answer is there:

The curl-up
with knees flexed and feet unanchored has been
selected because individually these elements have
been shown to a) decrease movement of the fifth
lumbar vertebra over the sacral vertebrae, b) minimize
the activation of the hip flexors, c) increase the
activation of the external and internal obliques and
transverse abdominals, and d) maximize abdominal
muscle activation of the lower and upper rectus
abdominals relative to disc compression (load)
when compared with a variety of sit-ups.
Few results are available on the consistency and
accuracy of the curl-up. Reliability is higher for college
students than for children but the values are
acceptable for this type of assessment. Determination
of validity has been hampered by the lack of an
established criterion measure. Anatomical analysis
and electromyographical documentation provide
the primary support for the use of the curl-up test
to determine abdominal strength and endurance.

[arajca]

IRT the 2+run, I have had several cadets with long legs who could not pass the sit-&-reach. These cadet were typically bean-poles with very little fat. Their physiology made it impossible for them to pass. We made them attempt it, of course, but no one expected them to pass. Should they have been denied promotion because they were physically incapable of meeting the standard? Or should they been put in a CPFT Category III status?

Were they able to pass the Sit and Reach and Push Ups, in addition to the mile (or shuttle run)?

The were able to pass the curl-up, push-up and shuttle run.

[Ned]

Physical fitness standards need to be lowered because the general population has adopted a lot of unhealthy habits? That doesn't sound right...

The original standards were based on "contemporary" measurements made in the '70s and '80's if I recall correctly.  The PYFP simply stopped making assessments at that point and relied on increasingly older data for their program.  Countless CAP members complained that the CPFT baseline data was based on "old" data and unfairly punished cadets in the 21st Century.

And about five years ago, the PYFP significantly changed its focus and assessments.

But much more importantly, the new standards are based on the science of health.  Restated, the experts are able to determine when a given level of fitness supports good health.  Individuals below that level are much more likely to suffer from chronic conditions that require professional intervention and adversely affect lifestyles.

We are in the business of developing lifelong habits of regular activity and fitness for our cadets.   

[jeders]

Does anyone know why they changed the form of curl-ups?

CAP changed the curl-ups in order to meet the standards presented in the Presidential Youth Fitness Program.  If the current method of performing the curl-ups was used, then the standards used in the PYFP could not be applied since the forms are different. 

I'm not so sure that's true since what you quote below states that there's very little data on curl-ups being any good period (emphasis mine). However, the safety benefits of the new form over the old form are worth the changes. And since the new form requires the head to touch the surface for every rep, it's good that it is slowed down. If I tried to bang out 50 curl ups in a minute while being required to touch my head to the ground each time, I'd be severely injured even with a mat.

Now if you are asking why the PYFP is using this form as opposed to other forms, then the answer is there:

The curl-up
with knees flexed and feet unanchored has been
selected because individually these elements have
been shown to a) decrease movement of the fifth
lumbar vertebra over the sacral vertebrae, b) minimize
the activation of the hip flexors, c) increase the
activation of the external and internal obliques and
transverse abdominals, and d) maximize abdominal
muscle activation of the lower and upper rectus
abdominals relative to disc compression (load)
when compared with a variety of sit-ups.
Few results are available on the consistency and
accuracy of the curl-up. Reliability is higher for college
students than for children but the values are
acceptable for this type of assessment. Determination
of validity has been hampered by the lack of an
established criterion measure. Anatomical analysis
and electromyographical documentation provide
the primary support for the use of the curl-up test
to determine abdominal strength and endurance.

All of that said, the new curl up form is going to require quite additional equipment that most squadron don't have or don't have room for (mats). Is national going to provide mats of some sort, or will this be another unfunded mandate for the squadrons?

[jeders]

61 push-ups for the Spaatz?  That is going to get a lot of cadets. 

I have found that when you do as many push-ups as possible in a set time, you usually end up doing more than you can doing them by cadence. I've seen cadets that can only do 15 cadence push-ups easily bust out 30+ non-cadence push-ups.

[LSThiker]

I'm not so sure that's true since what you quote below states that there's very little data on curl-ups being any good period (emphasis mine).

That is not my point.  My point is that you cannot use the current CAP grading standards and apply those to the PYFP grading standards.  Otherwise, you will be comparing apples and oranges as the current grading standards created by the PYFP is using the PYFP form.  To use the CAP form, you would need to create the grading data based on that form, which is what the current form did with the PCPFS did.  Therefore, the PCPFS form and the PYFP form are not interchangeable.   

In those lines that you bolded, what the authors are stating is that the consistency and/or accuracy of measuring the abdominal strength and endurance cannot be determined for the curl-up in general.  Meaning, does the curl-up test consistently measure the abdominal strength in children?  The answer is not sufficient evidence because no criteria have been established.  They are not comparing methods. 

[LSThiker]

61 push-ups for the Spaatz?  That is going to get a lot of cadets. 

I have found that when you do as many push-ups as possible in a set time, you usually end up doing more than you can doing them by cadence. I've seen cadets that can only do 15 cadence push-ups easily bust out 30+ non-cadence push-ups.

Agreed.  When I do the APFT, I was able to knock out way more push-ups than I could do with CAP's cadence form.  Nevertheless, 61 push-ups will be difficult for some cadets as it is difficult for even some Service Members. 

It must be noted that I am not saying it should be changed, modified, or otherwise lowered.  Just simply stating an observation.

[avguy]

Here's my comment I left at the CP blog:

"For the sake of all the new cadets in northern climate squadrons who are not conditioned to run a passing mile, and do not have access to an indoor training facility to allow safe daily indoor running workouts to get into passing condition, please issue an ICL ASAP waiving the mile run for Phase I cadets. If PT standards for Phase I are going to be waived for Phase I cadets anyways, now (the onset of winter) is the time to ensure that northern squadrons don't lose a significant number of our new recruits over the next 6 months."

[CAPs1]

Less than two secs per Spaatz push-up is ridiculous (61 in 2mins).

[abdsp51]

Here's my comment I left at the CP blog:

"For the sake of all the new cadets in northern climate squadrons who are not conditioned to run a passing mile, and do not have access to an indoor training facility to allow safe daily indoor running workouts to get into passing condition, please issue an ICL ASAP waiving the mile run for Phase I cadets. If PT standards for Phase I are going to be waived for Phase I cadets anyways, now (the onset of winter) is the time to ensure that northern squadrons don't lose a significant number of our new recruits over the next 6 months."

Why should only northern tier be exempt?  It's cold plenty of places and hot as well. 

[thebeggerpie]

I can beat out +35 Pushups without a cadence. When I do it with a cadence, I dropped to around 17 pushups. It sucks. I think timed is far better, imho...

The new Curl-Ups look super-easy, compared to a full Sit-Up.

New Sit-N-Reach looks handy, but I still question the point of having a stretch among a bunch of exercises. I support Pull-Ups as an option. 

[vorteks]

Here's my comment I left at the CP blog:

"For the sake of all the new cadets in northern climate squadrons who are not conditioned to run a passing mile, and do not have access to an indoor training facility to allow safe daily indoor running workouts to get into passing condition, please issue an ICL ASAP waiving the mile run for Phase I cadets. If PT standards for Phase I are going to be waived for Phase I cadets anyways, now (the onset of winter) is the time to ensure that northern squadrons don't lose a significant number of our new recruits over the next 6 months."

Why should only northern tier be exempt?  It's cold plenty of places and hot as well.

Perhaps you misread that. He said "please issue an ICL ASAP waiving the mile run for Phase I cadets."

[LSThiker]

Here's my comment I left at the CP blog:

"For the sake of all the new cadets in northern climate squadrons who are not conditioned to run a passing mile, and do not have access to an indoor training facility to allow safe daily indoor running workouts to get into passing condition, please issue an ICL ASAP waiving the mile run for Phase I cadets. If PT standards for Phase I are going to be waived for Phase I cadets anyways, now (the onset of winter) is the time to ensure that northern squadrons don't lose a significant number of our new recruits over the next 6 months."

Why should only northern tier be exempt?  It's cold plenty of places and hot as well.

Perhaps you misread that. He said "please issue an ICL ASAP waiving the mile run for Phase I cadets."

Northern was stated 10 words from the beginning and 16 words from the ending.  I bolded it for you in the above quote.

[abdsp51]

Here's my comment I left at the CP blog:

"For the sake of all the new cadets in northern climate squadrons who are not conditioned to run a passing mile, and do not have access to an indoor training facility to allow safe daily indoor running workouts to get into passing condition, please issue an ICL ASAP waiving the mile run for Phase I cadets. If PT standards for Phase I are going to be waived for Phase I cadets anyways, now (the onset of winter) is the time to ensure that northern squadrons don't lose a significant number of our new recruits over the next 6 months."

Why should only northern tier be exempt?  It's cold plenty of places and hot as well.

Perhaps you misread that. He said "please issue an ICL ASAP waiving the mile run for Phase I cadets."

Didn't misread anything.  Legit question...

[avguy]

Why should only northern tier be exempt?  It's cold plenty of places and hot as well.

I didn't recommend that only the northern tier should be exempt.  I cited the effect of the current program requirements on the northern tier cadet members.

[vorteks]

Here's my comment I left at the CP blog:

"For the sake of all the new cadets in northern climate squadrons who are not conditioned to run a passing mile, and do not have access to an indoor training facility to allow safe daily indoor running workouts to get into passing condition, please issue an ICL ASAP waiving the mile run for Phase I cadets. If PT standards for Phase I are going to be waived for Phase I cadets anyways, now (the onset of winter) is the time to ensure that northern squadrons don't lose a significant number of our new recruits over the next 6 months."

Why should only northern tier be exempt?  It's cold plenty of places and hot as well.

Perhaps you misread that. He said "please issue an ICL ASAP waiving the mile run for Phase I cadets."

Northern was stated 10 words from the beginning and 16 words from the ending.  I bolded it for you in the above quote.

Yep, the word "northern" appears in the post. Yet nowhere did he say that only northern climates should be exempt.

[sarmed1]

61 push-ups for the Spaatz?  That is going to get a lot of cadets. 

Keep up the good work, Ned.

I dont know my last USAF PT test I did 55 non cadenced, and I am in no way some kind of PT stud.  I am 43, mildly overweight and only go to the gym 3 times a week for about an hour between strength training and cardio.  I am sure a 17-21 year old that is working out plays sports and has a naturally low body fat could pull it off

mk