Great News! The 2015 Cadet Encampment Assistance Program

[Ned]

We are very pleased to announce that our Air Force colleagues have provided a significant amount of special funding to help cover encampment fees, transportation, uniforms, and other costs associated with encampment with an emphasis on serving financially disadvantaged cadets attending their first encampment in 2015.

But time is short!    Encampment season is already upon us.

Cadets, parents, and seniors supporting the cadet program are urged to visit the CEAP Page on the NHQ site for details.  Then eligible cadets should apply via the CEAP module in e-Services, with an answer due within a week.

Please do everything in your power to get the word out to cadets and parents.  Spread the word via social media, email lists, phone trees, and carrier pigeon!

The amount of support is substantial.  Depending on the popularity of the program, almost the entire cost of the encampment (including transportation and perhaps even a uniform) may be covered. 

Hey, you don't have to believe me, here's a memo from Gen Vasquez giving the command perspective on the program.

Please, help us get the word out.  We don't want to leave money on the table that could have been spent getting a first time cadet to encampment.


Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Programs Manager

[edit - spelling]

[CAPDCCMOM]

Where is the CAPF to requisition the carrier pigeon, I am concerned about the EPA, PETA, and the Girl Scouts protesting my use of Pigeon. And do I ned an ORM for Pigeon borne Bird Flu Safety.

Now to be serious, THANK YOU for this program. I am trying to get the word out.

[AirAux]

Ned, I am seriously worried about the time frame.  If the cadets have to order name tapes, uniforms, etc from Vanguard, will there be enough time to get it done?  Are the forms overly complicated or intrusive into family funding?  Thanks

[CAPDCCMOM]

^ If I read it correctly, can't it also be a reimbursement? If so, then items already purchased and ordered will be covered. Correct?

[Tim Day]

Ned, I am seriously worried about the time frame.  If the cadets have to order name tapes, uniforms, etc from Vanguard, will there be enough time to get it done?  Are the forms overly complicated or intrusive into family funding?  Thanks

There are no forms, AirAux. All Cadets who have not attended encampment, Encampment Commanders, and Directors of Cadet Programs have received an email with instructions. Cadets apply through e-services with their parents and, on their honor, state their need category. Squadron Commanders endorse the application. Funds for tuition are sent to the encampment and Vanguard vouchers for uniforms are emailed to the Cadet.

You're right about nametapes - time is short. Reimbursement is only for tuition, not purchased uniform items.

[FW]

This is welcome news for many.  I hope it is taken advantage of by all who are in need!

[AirAux]

I hope there is enough to go around.  There is nothing worse than getting a cadets hopes up and then dashing them at the last minute.. It would be nice if this would turn out to be something we could count on each summer. 

[jeders]

When I saw the email on this, I was blown away. This is truly a great thing that CAP is doing. But I do have some serious questions for you Ned. Is this just a one-time deal, or are we going to be able to count on this in the future; or is this a pilot program to see if it's worth doing every year? If the funding doesn't get used up for summer encampments, will it be available for winter encampments? If this does continue as a yearly item, will the funding be released earlier in the year to help with spring encampments?

[AirAux]

If one applies for the encampment assistance enrollment fees and not the uniform assistance fees, can they subsequesntly apply for the uniform fees if they are awarded the encampment enrolment fees, or do both have to be sent in at the same time?? 

[Ned]

But I do have some serious questions for you Ned. Is this just a one-time deal, or are we going to be able to count on this in the future;

At this point there are no guarantees that this discretionary AF funding will be renewed.  We hope to be able to show our colleagues that encampment attendance measurably increases retention and that we were able to direct the funds to cadets with financial needs.

If the funding doesn't get used up for summer encampments, will it be available for winter encampments?

Our immediate goal is to ensure the money is spent as directed by the donor  -- on summer encampments.  If money is left on the table, we will of course ask that it roll over to the winter encampment cycle.  But there are no promises, and the reality is that the winter cycle is in a different AF fiscal year suggesting that it may be difficult to make that happen out of this particular allocation.

If this does continue as a yearly item, will the funding be released earlier in the year to help with spring encampments?

That obviously would be our preference - cover all encampments with substantial funding, allow sufficient planning and implementation time, and some predictability for the out years.  But even if none of that occurs, this is still an outstanding opportunity and we are very, very grateful for even a one-time allocation.

Our immediate challenge is to be good guardians of the taxpayers' dollars and spend the money as wisely and carefully as we can.

[CAPDCCMOM]

Ned,

I have several parents already applying for this program. What is the turn around?

Thanks

[Ned]

Ned,

I have several parents already applying for this program. What is the turn around?

Thanks

Our service goal is one week.

[CAPs1]

This is great news!
Thanks

[sarmed1]

The PAWG DCP this weekend at the NER/PA conf had a lot of good information on this.
The biggest thing sounded like its pretty much first come first served, and dont let the money go unused,


MK

[Ned]

Wow, the word is certainly out.

As of Tuesday, over 700 cadets have applied for assistance, of which over 500 are already approved!  (The others are pending approvals)

This means we have obligated over 75% of the USAF funding, roughly $400k at this point.

But there is still a significant amount of money on the table, simply waiting for cadets to apply.

So continue to spread the word! This is such a terrific opportunity for our cadets.



Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Programs Manager

[lordmonar]

We are giving them $800 each?

That can't be right.

[jdh]

After doing some quick math, if you were to send an Airman Basic male cadet to encampment with one set of BDUs and one set of Class B uniforms it doesnt take long for it to add up. Just those two uniforms (not counting tax or shipping) are $320, then you add in cost of encampment which for TXWG is approx $150 for a basic cadet, followed by other gear that's needed on the packing list and then transportation costs.

[Tim Day]

cost of encampment which for TXWG is approx $150 for a basic cadet, followed by other gear that's needed on the packing list and then transportation costs.

There's no such thing as a basic cadet anymore. They are students.

It's my understanding that CEAP doesn't reimburse the cost of encampment, it reimburses at the federal M&IE per diem rate plus the cost of lodging. VAWG Encampment costs the student $175; the M&IE rate for our location is $42 per day or so. Travel days count as 3/4 of a day. 7.5 days x $42 = $315. Our lodging costs about $2.38 per student so that's another $16.66 each for a total (unless my math or assumptions are wrong) of $332 per assisted student.

Additionally, since there is funding available for travel and safety vests, there may not be a 1:1 correlation of how much funding the AF has spent.

[stitchmom]

Ned, I am seriously worried about the time frame.  If the cadets have to order name tapes, uniforms, etc from Vanguard, will there be enough time to get it done?  Are the forms overly complicated or intrusive into family funding?  Thanks

I applied for this and seriously I had tears in my eyes when I was done because it was so not complicated.

I was expecting the usual Exercise In How Well A Tired Parent Can Manage Red Tape you know spending your last $12  faxing, copying, and then the days of frustration, headaches, and wasted phone minutes Trying To Prove You Did Turn Something In to get nowhere.

[xray328]

We applied around the third week of May.  I emailed HQ and was told that we would most likely not be getting any assistance because a majority of the money had already been used for priority 1 requests. Not sure when the final deision will be made, but we're running out of time.

Wing requires 3 sets of BDU's.  We have two kids that just started out and have no BDU's at all.  We figured the BDU requirement was going to be over $600 alone (before sewing everything on), not to mention the usual misc expenses...7 pairs of boot socks (14 for two cadets) , 8 t-shirts (again 16 for 2), etc.  It's been a struggle for sure.  We ended up going to Army/Navy Surplus stores while on vacation and did our best to get 6 decent looking/matching sets (only partially successful).  We figured uniform items, just for the BDU's (after tapes/patches/socks/shirts/hat/belt/boots) is going to be over $800 had we bought new.  That's not including anything for the blues (waiting for Curry voucher).  Encampment fees were $270 for both kids.  So were looking at well over $1000 to send the kids.

Local unit has been doing their best to help, it's just a lot for a new cadet.

[Spam]

Wing requires 3 sets of BDU's.  We have two kids that just started out and have no BDU's at all. 

---

Local unit has been doing their best to help, it's just a lot for a new cadet.

This, honestly, is part of why I don't approve cadets to go to encampment who join less than four or five months or so out. It is unfair to the encampment staff, and stressful to the cadets, unit and parents, to expect to take a raw recruit off the street, rush them through their first stripe, and push them into the encampment environment.  We see some of these every year from inexperienced or outright lazy/careless unit staff who send nearly brand new cadets off, where their inability to march and ignorance about CAP prove training obstacles, their marginal uniforms and grooming and painful new boots not broken in, and their uncertainty and inexperience magnify the chances for an adaptation failure to military style training. In some cases, they can be safety risks as well, given that they're "drinking from the fire hose".


Encampment is not, emphasis NOT, basic training.


If your cadets don't have even one set of BDUs and blues each, and thus haven't earned the stripe to wear on them (note, that promotion is mandatory to attend), then they should wait until next year, and spend the time preparing (financially, as well as personally) for what will be a far more rewarding investment of time and effort.


V/R,
Spam

[Ned]

We applied around the third week of May.  I emailed HQ and was told that we would most likely not be getting any assistance because a majority of the money had already been used for priority 1 requests. Not sure when the final deision will be made, but we're running out of time.

And we have more Great News!  Although it looks like we have obligated almost all of the original $490,000 on Priority 1 cadets, we have been able to identify some new funding, and it appears that we should be able to fulfill all requests for assistance this year.  I can't make promises quite yet, but we should have an update in the next day or two.

(And yes, we know that encampments are starting all over the country . . ..  But government money is tricky to move around at times.)

We once again thank our AF colleagues for making this special funding available to help our cadets and their families.


Ned Lee
National Cadet Program Manager

[Luis R. Ramos]

Honestly!

Some people in here complain that cadets go to Encampment to unlearn what they learned on their units.

Others state that Encampments are for cadets to learn what to do on their home units.

Now we have someone saying that new cadets should learn on their home units.

Is it not better for a cadet to learn what they should correctly, how to do things, without any previous baggage?

Is it not having to unlearn what they learned at home, a greater barrier? [Edited, typo. Meant Is it not having to unlearn what they learned at home, best for them to learn properly?]

Is the view of most posting here that maybe NHQ should set a prerequisite that those cadets with Curry should not attend Encampments?

[edited to add]
I agree there may be cadets who are too inexperienced to participate in an encampment. But that is not just CAP achievement level, it includes their age and motivation. And parental involvement!

[xray328]

Wing requires 3 sets of BDU's.  We have two kids that just started out and have no BDU's at all. 

---

Local unit has been doing their best to help, it's just a lot for a new cadet.

This, honestly, is part of why I don't approve cadets to go to encampment who join less than four or five months or so out. It is unfair to the encampment staff, and stressful to the cadets, unit and parents, to expect to take a raw recruit off the street, rush them through their first stripe, and push them into the encampment environment.  We see some of these every year from inexperienced or outright lazy/careless unit staff who send nearly brand new cadets off, where their inability to march and ignorance about CAP prove training obstacles, their marginal uniforms and grooming and painful new boots not broken in, and their uncertainty and inexperience magnify the chances for an adaptation failure to military style training. In some cases, they can be safety risks as well, given that they're "drinking from the fire hose".


Encampment is not, emphasis NOT, basic training.


If your cadets don't have even one set of BDUs and blues each, and thus haven't earned the stripe to wear on them (note, that promotion is mandatory to attend), then they should wait until next year, and spend the time preparing (financially, as well as personally) for what will be a far more rewarding investment of time and effort.


V/R,
Spam

While I'm sure that happens all the time, that's not the case here. I'm a former Mitchell cadet myself, mom and I are both prior USAF enlisted, the kids are more than ready.  They really aren't being "rushed" through their first stripe, they have a join date of 28 May, encampment's 25 July.  They are attending summer encampment at my request so they are leadership ready for the next one. Our son is targeting the USAFA but is already 15 and needs those leadership roles, so if anything I'm the one pushing for them to attend.  But I'm also taking the responsibility and personally preparing them for it.

Let's assume they already had their one set of BDU's, and one set of blues (that's all I had through probably C/TSgt).  That's still 4 sets that would need to be ready. Ok, so now I'm at $640 in BDU's and $270 in encampment fees.  Still over $1000.  The advice has always been to seek out local resources through the unit, and then if need be, try the Army/Navy surplus stores.  I've had very limited luck there, most of what you find is a step away from the bin, or cheap Chinese knock offs.

The point of my post wasn't to complain but to illustrate how expensive special activities can be, especially to parents of new cadets.

[xray328]

Honestly!

Some people in here complain that cadets go to Encampment to unlearn what they learned on their units.

Others state that Encampments are for cadets to learn what to do on their home units.

Now we have someone saying that new cadets should learn on their home units.

Is it not better for a cadet to learn what they should correctly, how to do things, without any previous baggage?

Is it not having to unlearn what they learned at home, a greater barrier?

Is the view of most posting here that maybe NHQ should set a prerequisite that those cadets with Curry should not attend Encampments?

Very much agreed.  Our units cadet leadership consists of two cadet officers (1st/2nd LT) and the rest are enlisted ranks.  Great kids, great unit.  But I think the encampment is an excellent opportunity to learn from some very experienced/outstanding cadet staff outside of the home unit. My hope is that the kids not only benefit from the training, but also get a better understanding of what goes on outside the squadron.  Up until now their exposure to CAP has been the weekly meetings with only a handful of cadets. As we all know, the weekly meetings aren't what makes this fun for cadets, its the state/national acitivites they look forward to all year.

[Eaker Guy]

Honestly!

Some people in here complain that cadets go to Encampment to unlearn what they learned on their units.

Others state that Encampments are for cadets to learn what to do on their home units.

Now we have someone saying that new cadets should learn on their home units.

Is it not better for a cadet to learn what they should correctly, how to do things, without any previous baggage?

Is it not having to unlearn what they learned at home, a greater barrier?

Is the view of most posting here that maybe NHQ should set a prerequisite that those cadets with Curry should not attend Encampments?

Very much agreed.  Our units cadet leadership consists of two cadet officers (1st/2nd LT) and the rest are enlisted ranks.  Great kids, great unit.  But I think the encampment is an excellent opportunity to learn from some very experienced/outstanding cadet staff outside of the home unit. My hope is that the kids not only benefit from the training, but also get a better understanding of what goes on outside the squadron.  Up until now their exposure to CAP has been the weekly meetings with only a handful of cadets. As we all know, the weekly meetings aren't what makes this fun for cadets, its the state/national acitivites they look forward to all year.

+1

[Offutteer]

CAP is a bargain as compared to some other camps. 

http://www.nationalflightacademy.com/    $1,250 (though they do offer scholarships)

http://www.spacecamp.com/http://www.spacecamp.com/  Space Academy 12 -14 year old, $939

The kid would get a t-shirt or two, rather than full sets of uniforms.

[xray328]

CAP is a bargain as compared to some other camps. 

http://www.nationalflightacademy.com/    $1,250 (though they do offer scholarships)

http://www.spacecamp.com/http://www.spacecamp.com/  Space Academy 12 -14 year old, $939

The kid would get a t-shirt or two, rather than full sets of uniforms.

CAP has always been a bargain in my opinion.  There's very few groups out there that offer as much as it does, and not just in regards to special activities. 

That being said, I'm not sure that either one of those are really an apples to apples comparison to a wing encampment....

MER Powered Flight Academy, $1200

http://www.ncsas.com/?mer_powered_flight_academy&show=career_fair&careerFairID=15

Space Command Fam Course, $450

http://www.ncsas.com/?space_command_fam_course&show=career_fair&careerFairID=7

Those prices are on top of whatever you'd need to spend on uniforms to attend them.

CAP is still the better bang for the buck in my opinion though (if that's what it came down to - and of course it doesn't).

Both the Nation Flight Academy and Space Camp are 1 week camps that you attend, come home and really don't take a whole lot away from. CAP provided me with so much more than just a "summer camp" experience. It forced me to grow up, take personal responsibility, and to be accountable.  Then theres integrity, perseverance, service above self, courtesy, etc.  I'll glady put my time, money and effort into what CAP gives our kids over some corporate run "money maker" summer camp any day of the week (and twice on sunday of course)     

[Spam]

Honestly!

Some people in here complain that cadets go to Encampment to unlearn what they learned on their units.

Others state that Encampments are for cadets to learn what to do on their home units.

Now we have someone saying that new cadets should learn on their home units.

"Honestly", Luis, I don't understand your point in all your words. The program requires a valid Curry Achievement with all that entails prior to encampment, period. That's not "someone" saying it, that's the requirement. Beyond that, the pace of and level of intensity of training should fit the student, which it does not at encampment for most teen agers who have joined 60 to 90 days prior.

... Good luck to your guys, Xray.

... Nice work, Ned!

V/R,
Spam

[lordmonar]

Spam,

yes....an encampment requires a Curry.....but a Curry does not require what it used to.  However, it seems that what some encampments expect from first time attendees has not changed.

If new cadets with only 2-3 months in the program at struggling at encampment......maybe your curriculum need to be adjusted.

JMHO and YMMV.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Spam,

Lordmonar replied for me. That is my entire point.

If you think those cadets are not ready, do not approve their application.

If you think that cadets 60-90 days should not attend, ask through channels that as part of the requirements something like cadets should have at least 100 days of CAP membership. But where do you stop? 100? 105? 200? 365?!!!

However it seems the problem is... Your expectations, as Lordmonar put it nicely!

[Eaker Guy]

The Curry Blues program doesn't help with keeping the standards for the Curry Achievement high. It's like national wants to rush them in to their first stripe as quickly as possible.

Great Start does this as well. It isn't as bad, because the cadets actually do get an education before earning their first stripe. Those that don't have orientation programs just let the cadets figure it out themselves(like my squadron). In my squadron, I could definitely see some of the cadets that have the Curry struggling at encampment.

[xray328]

I don't think you'll ever be able to put a blanket policy out there. What works for a mature 12 year old may not work for an immature 15 year old. Some put in the effort, some don't. Some squadrons have excellent cadet programs, some don't. Some parents drop off their kids and run, some are more actively involved.

I think getting the kids through the Curry gives them a very basic foundation for what can be expanded upon at the encampment. Our wing has a "basic" encampment along with an "advanced" portion for cadets that have been to one in the past. I think that might be the best approach.

And I also agree with Luis that these decisions need to be made by the squadron commander. If they're sending cadets that clearly aren't ready, that falls back on them.

[Al Sayre]

The Curry Blues program doesn't help with keeping the standards for the Curry Achievement high. It's like national wants to rush them in to their first stripe as quickly as possible.

Great Start does this as well. It isn't as bad, because the cadets actually do get an education before earning their first stripe. Those that don't have orientation programs just let the cadets figure it out themselves(like my squadron). In my squadron, I could definitely see some of the cadets that have the Curry struggling at encampment.

So as the Cadet Commander, what are you doing about it?

[Eaker Guy]

The Curry Blues program doesn't help with keeping the standards for the Curry Achievement high. It's like national wants to rush them in to their first stripe as quickly as possible.

Great Start does this as well. It isn't as bad, because the cadets actually do get an education before earning their first stripe. Those that don't have orientation programs just let the cadets figure it out themselves(like my squadron). In my squadron, I could definitely see some of the cadets that have the Curry struggling at encampment.

So as the Cadet Commander, what are you doing about it?

Haha. I knew I would get myself into trouble!

I plan on talking with the CDC about setting up a recruiting and retention/orientation plan to be implemented early August.

Fortunately, none of the cadets that I think would struggle are going to encampment, so no problems there. Until we set the orientation program up, we'll just take it on a case by case basis.
We definitely rely on the trickle in method of recruiting, and we just recently placed a "Cadet Training Officer" to handle orientation. I know the position isn't in the 20-1, but I feel it's necessary for our current state. Still working through the kinks in the system, but we'll be running smoothly soon. I might pull some materials from Great Start for those that trickle in.

Have any suggestions? PM me if you do.

Thanks!

[Eaker Guy]

I don't think you'll ever be able to put a blanket policy out there. What works for a mature 12 year old may not work for an immature 15 year old. Some put in the effort, some don't. Some squadrons have excellent cadet programs, some don't. Some parents drop off their kids and run, some are more actively involved.

I think getting the kids through the Curry gives them a very basic foundation for what can be expanded upon at the encampment. Our wing has a "basic" encampment along with an "advanced" portion for cadets that have been to one in the past. I think that might be the best approach.

And I also agree with Luis that these decisions need to be made by the squadron commander. If they're sending cadets that clearly aren't ready, that falls back on them.

In your opinion, who bears the burden of basic cadet orientation? Squadrons or encampments?

[xray328]

Squadrons without a doubt. Which is why I believe that the squadron commander/deputy commander of cadets (with the help of cadet commanders) shouldn't send any cadet that isn't ready to go.

I might go as far as even saying that a cadet that isn't encampment ready shouldn't be given the Curry.  That being said, there needs to be established expectations on what "encampment ready" means.

[Eaker Guy]

Squadrons without a doubt. Which is why I believe that the squadron commander/deputy commander of cadets (with the help of cadet commanders) shouldn't send any cadet that isn't ready to go.

I might go as far as even saying that a cadet that isn't encampment ready shouldn't be given the Curry.  That being said, there needs to be established expectations on what "encampment ready" means.

Thanks for the response.

[Eaker Guy]

Squadrons without a doubt. Which is why I believe that the squadron commander/deputy commander of cadets (with the help of cadet commanders) shouldn't send any cadet that isn't ready to go.

I might go as far as even saying that a cadet that isn't encampment ready shouldn't be given the Curry.  That being said, there needs to be established expectations on what "encampment ready" means.

Thanks for the response. For the most part, I agree. Not sure about holding back the Curry if they aren't encampment ready. I think that cadets should go to encampment around the grade of C/SSgt-C/SMSgt. That way, they know what the CAP is all about, and they leave for encampment prepared. Sometimes, this is a luxury, and the 17 year old who wants to push for his/her Mitchell must go to encampment as soon as possible. However, these cadets are motivated and prepared to go to encampment when he/she has the Curry. We shouldn't ship off our cadets to encampment as  soon as they earn the Curry.

[xray328]

Again, it's all about the individual. No two cadets are going to the same despite age, or rank which is why the decision should be left up to their squadron commanders. Like you said, there are some highly motivated individuals out there. There are also cadets that only go because their parents need a break from them for a week [emoji5]️

[Rafka]

Having gone to encampment when I was a C/CMSgt and 17 years old. I would suggest that going to late is not for the better. I believe the Airman to Senior Airman grades are for the best. You are also limited to almost no other NCSAs until you complete encampment. Not everyone joins when they're 12.

[Airplane girl]

In a way, the Great Start program makes sure that cadets don't get their Curry really early. From what I know about it, cadets get their Curry 5 weeks after joining with the Great Start program. In my squadron, I got mine 3 weeks after joining and two other cadets got theirs 2 weeks after joining.

I think that waiting until cadets promote to C/SSgt-C/SMSgt is kind of waiting too long.  When I went to encampment last winter (as a 13 year old C/SrA), I was fine. I didn't really struggle at encampment. And I knew some 18 year old cadet senior NCOs that did. I found out a few months after encampment that a lot of people thought I was 16. But I think that encampment emphasizes learning how to be a good follower more than being a good leader, so the skills learned at encampment would be more useful to a C/Amn, a C/A1C, or a C/SrA. Someone who is a C/SSgt-C/SMSgt might learn things that are more relevant to their position at their home squadron at a NCOLS. Although, if a certain cadet does not have the maturity to go to an encampment until they are a C/SSgt-C/SMSgt, then they should definitely wait until then.

[Rafka]

If a cadet doesn't have the maturity to go to encampment until they are a C/SMSgt. Then somebody failed in training that cadet along the way.

[LSThiker]

If a cadet doesn't have the maturity to go to encampment until they are a C/SMSgt. Then somebody failed in training that cadet along the way.

No. There could be a number of reasons.  Such as money, work, family/family vacations, etc.

[Rafka]

If a cadet doesn't have the maturity to go to encampment until they are a C/SMSgt. Then somebody failed in training that cadet along the way.

No. There could be a number of reasons.  Such as money, work, family/family vacations, etc.

I said maturity. I'm well aware of the other reasons they might have to wait.

[Eaker Guy]

If a cadet doesn't have the maturity to go to encampment until they are a C/SMSgt. Then somebody failed in training that cadet along the way.

True. The grades I threw out were just suggestions off the top of my head.

[Eaker Guy]

In a way, the Great Start program makes sure that cadets don't get their Curry really early. From what I know about it, cadets get their Curry 5 weeks after joining with the Great Start program. In my squadron, I got mine 3 weeks after joining and two other cadets got theirs 2 weeks after joining.

I think that waiting until cadets promote to C/SSgt-C/SMSgt is kind of waiting too long.  When I went to encampment last winter (as a 13 year old C/SrA), I was fine. I didn't really struggle at encampment. And I knew some 18 year old cadet senior NCOs that did. I found out a few months after encampment that a lot of people thought I was 16. But I think that encampment emphasizes learning how to be a good follower more than being a good leader, so the skills learned at encampment would be more useful to a C/Amn, a C/A1C, or a C/SrA. Someone who is a C/SSgt-C/SMSgt might learn things that are more relevant to their position at their home squadron at a NCOLS. Although, if a certain cadet does not have the maturity to go to an encampment until they are a C/SSgt-C/SMSgt, then they should definitely wait until then.

Depends on how you look at it. 90% or so of recruits will most likely be able to graduate in five weeks. However, the ones that don't will be demoralized, and will have to go through additional training/mentoring. That's one of the drawbacks. I think Great Start is, well, great(no pun intended).

[LSThiker]

If a cadet doesn't have the maturity to go to encampment until they are a C/SMSgt. Then somebody failed in training that cadet along the way.

No. There could be a number of reasons.  Such as money, work, family/family vacations, etc.

I said maturity. I'm well aware of the other reasons they might have to wait.

My apologies.  I read maturity in a different context.  As in personal maturity to want to go to encampment.

[lordmonar]

Guys......NHQ has already set the standard.  If they got their Curry they are ready to go.  If encampment is too hard.... You adjust your encampment not the other way around.

[xray328]

Squadron commander still has to sign off,  no?

[lordmonar]

Squadron commander still has to sign off,  no?

Yes.  But why would he not?

The point I am making is.....we have had complaints in this thread about cadets not being ready for Encampment because they don't know how to march or that they don't know enough about CAP because they have only been in CAP for a few weeks and only just got their Curry.

That is not a valid complaint IMHO.

The Pre-Req for encampment has always been Curry.    So....you need to make sure that you are gearing your encampment to accommodate 12 year olds who have only been in CAP for a month.

If your program is too hard for 12 year olds with only a few weeks in CAP and only know how to do stationary drill and only have their one set of BDUs......then you need to re-look at what 52-16 says.

Now.....if you don't think Encampment should be that low-bar lowest common denominator.....then you need to challenge it up to NHQ CP types to make some changes.    But if you make the minimum grade say Wright Brothers.....then how many people are not going to be able to attend encampment at all?  If you make the minimum time in CAP six months or one year....then how many people are not going to be able to attend encampment?   If you make the minimum age 13 or 14...then again how many CAP members are not going to be able to attend?

Sure...the commander has the right and duty to deny a cadet the opportunity to go to encampment.   Little Johnny can't even go on an over night with out mommy or daddy.....sure maybe he needs to wait a year.   Little Timmy does not work and play well with other....sure no encampment for you.

But if Billy joins in April gets his Curry at the end of May he most certainly should be allowed to go to encampment in June. 

[xray328]

Agreed, very valid points.

But what part of 52-16 are you referring to?  I just read part 9 "Encampments", it specifically says that some cadets would best be served by waiting for their second eligibility period (under 14)

Eligibility. To participate, cadets must have completed Achievement 1 and receive permission from their parent or guardian and unit commander via the online encampment application in eServices or a CAPF 31. Encampments may require cadets' parents to sign additional legal releases, if mandated by the host facility. Squadron commanders shall discuss the encampment environment with parents of their cadets, especially parents of cadets under age 14. It is conceivable that some of the youngest and newest CAP cadets will be best served if they attend encampment during their second cycle of eligibility.

[Spam]

That is one of the wisest sections in the reg, often overlooked by units pushing to flush new students through encampment before they're ready.

I'll take crap from anyone gladly (with all the bold face expostulations and exclamations(!!!!) you'd like to add) for adhering to standards on this, and for maintaining not a lower standard but a higher set of expecations. Am I "complaining"? Negative. I'm simply stating that when making a command decision as to whether a new cadet is ready to attend encampment, in my experience very few of them (with a few exceptions) are ready with that little time in as a cadet, Curry Achievement or not. (And yes, I've approved the rare 16 or 17 year old, one of whom went on to West Point, USMA).

Lord, you're right; the standard is the Curry, as dumbed down as it seems these days, and I never would entertain raising that bar to Wright Bros. A Curry should be a Curry, should be a Curry... and yet, even with the lowered standards, I still see people busting it in an attempt to lower the bar to improve retention, or make cadets feel good, or something.  When I see someone at encampment (and my experience on this spans five Wings over three Regions, since '83, and three command tours plus my last job as a DCP) who can't perform basic drill to standards, I have to question if their home unit has "relaxed" the LL1 practical drill test to push them through. When I visit a unit on PT night or an encampment and see cadets miserably fail to meet standards for their current grade, I suspect someone hasn't been administering the CPFT to standards (and in some cases, I've documented that they haven't for inspections). When I find that many of these cadets haven't the foggiest what our Core Values are and can't recite the Cadet Oath from memory (the latter of which is a Curry promotion requirement), my conclusion is that we have units pushing Johnny through, which is a failure of ethical leadership and an integrity bust.

Dumbing down encampments is absolutely the wrong route to take, especially since DoD components continue to view Mitchell cadets as having achieved the equivalent of some degree of advanced standing.  Ensuring that our prospective trainees are ready absolutely IS the correct approach, and that means making a judgment call, as I've done, as I (don't) get paid to do (grin).

Go ahead, teammates. Tell me how your units push and succeed with the Curry-in-a-weekend package. I'm happy some of you earned the Curry in two weeks, and I wish you well and hope it all works out for you.


I know whose units will regularly have "issues" at encampment, though.


V/R,
Spam

[lordmonar]

Agreed, very valid points.

But what part of 52-16 are you referring to?  I just read part 9 "Encampments", it specifically says that some cadets would best be served by waiting for their second eligibility period (under 14)

Eligibility. To participate, cadets must have completed Achievement 1 and receive permission from their parent or guardian and unit commander via the online encampment application in eServices or a CAPF 31. Encampments may require cadets' parents to sign additional legal releases, if mandated by the host facility. Squadron commanders shall discuss the encampment environment with parents of their cadets, especially parents of cadets under age 14. It is conceivable that some of the youngest and newest CAP cadets will be best served if they attend encampment during their second cycle of eligibility.

The part of 52-16 that says what a Curry is, what they are supposed to know and how much drill they are supposed to know.

I agree that if the cadet is not mature enough to go at 12......i.e. home sickness, able to sleep in open bays, and share bathroom/shower facilities etc. then sure...maybe have that cadet wait a year or two.   

But a Curry is a Curry....and nothing but a Curry...and unless we make the minimum Write Brothers....then you WILL get cadets who do not know how to march.   Because Curry's don't need to know how to march.

Spam,

I think you and are are talking apples and oranges.   

Yep...lots of squadrons don't hold up their standards.   But most do.
But that does not have anything to do with the level of knowledge 52-16 says a cadet is supposed to have going into encampment.
As long as that is the minimum....then that is the bar and we need to adjust our encampments to meet that bar.

And it is not Dumbing Down the encampment.....it is the standards already established by CAP with DoD's concurrence. 

Now....let's say that you are correct and a new cadet with say 5 weeks in the program (the time it takes to run the Great Start Program) are not ready for encampment.....then we need to communicate that up the chain to the CP shop and fix  that disconnect.

If you know that units are not running their program to standards....then you need to let the wing DCP and the Wing CC know and fix it.

Sorry but that is just the way it is.

If you are running an encampment where the average 12 year old with only 5 weeks in is struggling then you are running your encampment outside the established standards.

YMMV.

[xray328]

Can you please link me to the section of the current 52-16 (2014 edition) that outlines what they are supposed to know for the Curry? I'm not seeing it.  Not challenging you here...I'm just trying to find it so I know.

[xray328]

If this is what's required for the Curry,  and the Curry is what we base a cadets "encampment readiness" on, for drill in this case, it's seriously lacking.  These are all stationary movements.

[Tim Medeiros]

If this is what's required for the Curry,  and the Curry is what we base a cadets "encampment readiness" on, for drill in this case, it's seriously lacking.  These are all stationary movements.

Yes, yes they are.  This is because you don't run without walking, and you don't walk without crawling.  Each of the drill tests build upon the other.  This is drill of the element, the basic of the basic stuff anyone should know.  It should be noted that of the drill tests that don't involve control of someone else, this and the Arnold Achievement have the highest number of items that must be satisfactorily completed at 15.  The test with the highest number of items to be completed is drill of the flight at 21, followed closely by having a cadet diagram a higher level formation AND a ceremony which is worth 20 points total.


Simply put, Achievements 1 and 2 is where we place a good deal of demand on cadets to learn drill, something that they probably just learned wasn't a tool in their parents garage or shed.  Compared to the learning curve there, all the other drill tests are a cake walk.  We don't want to overload these new cadets, we're already requiring more of them now than when I was new to the program nearly 16 years ago.  Back then I didn't have a drill test, I didn't have a safety requirement, all I had to do was read a chapter in the leadership book and do the point based PT test, I didn't even have event minimums for that.  There might have been a moral leadership thing, I don't recall, it was 1999, if there was it was during the meeting and nothing special.  These days we require 1) leadership test, 2) drill test, 3) PT test with event minimums, 4) Wingman Course (now incorporating Intro to Safety with Character Development), 5) OPSEC, I think that's everything.


Additionally, all this attention is being placed on cadets who just joined, got their Curry and are off to encampment.  Does anyone have any HARD numbers (such as a datamine of CAPWATCH data for a wing or region) on how many annually actually do this?  The newest cadet heading to encampment today from my unit is from near the end of February and just got his Arnold, that's at least 12 weeks of lead time.  Please, someone, mine the data, I'd really like to know how prevalent a short time cadet going to encampment is.  By short time I'm thinking less than 8 weeks.

EDIT: The results for SWR, 61 out of 2191 cadets currently listed in the CAPWATCH DownLoad that have encampment.  That is 2.78411684162483%.  This is including an obvious error in entry, there is a member with an original join date 297 days after their date of encampment.  If you figure that was a "fat finger" mistake, that would be 60 out of 2191 which is 2.73847558192606% of cadets.  Your cadets have a higher chance of being an Earhart cadet than going to encampment within 56 days of joining.  NOTE: I used a date range of 63 days to account for the encampment completion date generally being the graduation day.

Food for thought.

[stitchmom]

Kids today aren't required to memorize things like we had to 100 years ago. Even Sunday School has changed in that regard. They may not have had a lot of experience in memorizing information independently or reviewing what they learned before.

Why not spend twenty minutes with them helping them memorize or teach them how to spend 5 minutes reviewing each day. It may not be an ethics violation on leadership but more from kids not having the skills yet. Maybe they said it once but they didn't look at it after that.

[LSThiker]

We don't want to overload these new cadets, we're already requiring more of them now than when I was new to the program nearly 16 years ago.  Back then I didn't have a drill test, I didn't have a safety requirement, all I had to do was read a chapter in the leadership book and do the point based PT test, I didn't even have event minimums for that.  There might have been a moral leadership thing, I don't recall, it was 1999, if there was it was during the meeting and nothing special.  These days we require 1) leadership test, 2) drill test, 3) PT test with event minimums, 4) Wingman Course (now incorporating Intro to Safety with Character Development), 5) OPSEC, I think that's everything.

Tim, back then we did have a drill test.  It just was not enforced all that well.  It was part of the leadership test for every test up to the Goddard Achievement.

For the Curry award from 1999, a cadet needed to:

Pass CPFT with 90 points
Pass Leadership 2000 and Beyond Test Chapter 1
Participate in 50% of Moral Leadership Discussions
Unit Activity


So the only new requirements are the Wingman Course and OPSEC.  Although really the wingman course is just a more formal extension of the moral leadership requirement from 1999.

[xray328]

I understand the reason why drill instruction is setup like it is. But you can't say in place movements are all you need for the Curry, the Curry prepares you for encampment, now show up knowing how to march in formation.

Seems like there's a lot of debate on what a cadet should show up with. The consensus seems to be that it's not cadet basic training, but if the kid can't march then that's what it becomes. Since the Curry isn't changing and NHQ says that's what's required to attend, I agree then that encampments have to be prepared to accept kids that are going to need that "cadet basic training".

And yes, 2% is a small percentage...unless your kids in that 2% (raises hand).

[abdsp51]

I understand the reason why drill instruction is setup like it is. But you can't say in place movements are all you need for the Curry, the Curry prepares you for encampment, now show up knowing how to march in formation.

Seems like there's a lot of debate on what a cadet should show up with. The consensus seems to be that it's not cadet basic training, but if the kid can't march then that's what it becomes. Since the Curry isn't changing and NHQ says that's what's required to attend, I agree then that encampments have to be prepared to accept kids that are going to need that "cadet basic training".

And yes, 2% is a small percentage...unless your kids in that 2% (raises hand).

You are misinformed about encampment then. 

[Mitchell 1969]

CAP is a bargain as compared to some other camps. 

http://www.nationalflightacademy.com/    $1,250 (though they do offer scholarships)

http://www.spacecamp.com/http://www.spacecamp.com/  Space Academy 12 -14 year old, $939

The kid would get a t-shirt or two, rather than full sets of uniforms.

"Bargain" is relative. Bargain it may be, but that doesn't reduce the actual cash amount.

A $750,000 house for $500,000 would also be a bargain. But you still need the half million.

My parents sent me and my brother to encampment in 1969. Other parents thought "great price, compared to Boy Scout camp" (once they grasped that "the Air Force" was charging cadets to go to an Army base). But, my parents - every fee and uniform it was always followed by "times two." I know they struggled and went without in order to send us.

[Mitchell 1969]

I understand the reason why drill instruction is setup like it is. But you can't say in place movements are all you need for the Curry, the Curry prepares you for encampment, now show up knowing how to march in formation.

Seems like there's a lot of debate on what a cadet should show up with. The consensus seems to be that it's not cadet basic training, but if the kid can't march then that's what it becomes. Since the Curry isn't changing and NHQ says that's what's required to attend, I agree then that encampments have to be prepared to accept kids that are going to need that "cadet basic training".

And yes, 2% is a small percentage...unless your kids in that 2% (raises hand).

If every non-staff cadet at encampment showed up able to perform Curry mandated in-place drill movements, a competent staff would be able to herd them from place to place, in step, within an hour of falling in to their flights. Heck, 50 of us were doing that at the Ft. Polk reception station on our way to our first breakfast, led by a prior service NG Specialist and a former CAP cadet (this guy).

Flanks, columns, all the rest can build on itself. Throw in some element leaders who are already cadet NCOs. 

This isn't the problem it seems to be. Individual and element level is where the learning curve is. Flight level gets picked up at encampment on the fly. Squadron and higher level drill impacts cadre, with students only needing to "keep on keeping on" for the most part. If flights dont have it down by 2-3 days in, look closer at the cadre.

[xray328]

Sounds like cadet basic training 

I agree with you though, as long as that's what the cadre are expecting that's fine.

[Eaker Guy]

Sounds like cadet basic training 

I agree with you though, as long as that's what the cadre are expecting that's fine.

yup!

[abdsp51]

Sounds like cadet basic training 

I agree with you though, as long as that's what the cadre are expecting that's fine.

yup!

No it's not. I highly recommend you both go and read the curriculum either for the first time or again.

[xray328]

We're beating a dead horse here. What it comes down to is that not every cadets going to be at the same level because they all come from different backgrounds, vary in maturity, and level of motivation. Achieving the Curry is what gets them there. The cadre are going to do their very best to get those lacking up to speed as quickly as possible and everyone will leave at the end of the week all that much better for it, both those that were trained and those that did the training. 

[abdsp51]

We're beating a dead horse here. What it comes down to is that not every cadets going to be at the same level because they all come from different backgrounds, vary in maturity, and level of motivation. Achieving the Curry is what gets them there. The cadre are going to do their very best to get those lacking up to speed as quickly as possible and everyone will leave at the end of the week all that much better for it, both those that were trained and those that did the training.

You miss the point or don't care.  Read the reference i have pointed out to you.  What you have stated is not the goal or foundation of encampment. 

[xray328]

Stepping out of the thread at this point.

[LSThiker]

What's not the goal? Teaching them to march in formation? Never said it was.

Here is the reference:

a. Mission. The purpose of the cadet encampment is for cadets to develop leadership skills, investigate the aerospace sciences and related careers, commit to a habit of regular exercise, and reinforce their moral character.
b. Vision. The vision for the cadet encampment is "an immersion into the full challenges and opportunities of cadet life."

Further guidance from CAPP 52-24:

d. Goal Areas. Encampments aim to serve multiple constituencies. There are more people who have a stake in the program than simply the first-year cadet- students. In fulfilling its purposes and realizing its vision, the encampment pursues goals in five different areas simultaneously.

The overall encampment program sets goals for each cadet-student as an individual – what CAP hopes that cadet will know, do, or value as a result of encampment.

Second, encampment is a learning experience for each member of the cadet cadre, so the program sets goals for those advanced cadets.

Third, it is not enough that each cadet succeed individually; encampments aim to foster teamwork, so the program sets collective goals for the flights as teams.

Fourth, encampment is a venue for adult CAP members to grow as leaders of cadets, so the program sets goals for those individuals.
And finally, the encampment is the centerpiece of the wing-level Cadet Program, providing the wing with an opportunity to boost the capabilities of its hometown cadet and composite squadrons and to standardize cadet training within the wing, so the encampment program pursues goals for the wing's overall Cadet Program.

5.2 Leadership Block
a. Goals. The leadership block is designed to fulfill the following goals:
• To infuse the cadets with the "warrior spirit" – an attitude of self-determination backed-up by the
discipline needed to achieve one's goals.
• To consistently demonstrate proper wear of the uniform, drill and ceremonies, and military customs and courtesies.
• To impress upon the cadets the team's potential to accomplish more than the individual.
• To educate cadets on leadership's academic foundations so that they begin to conceive of leadership as an activity requiring thoughtful reflection.

Goals. The aerospace block is designed to fulfill the following goals:
• To spark enthusiasm for aerospace topics among cadets, through hands-on activities and exper- iential learning.
• To introduce cadets to aerospace career oppor- tunities, especially those relating to science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM), and Air Force careers in general.
• To comprehend basic scientific principles in
the aerospace field, and to enable cadets to visualize how professionals apply that knowledge in the real world.
• To begin to comprehend airpower's unique capabilities and to develop a sense of what the Air Force calls "airmindedness."

5.4 Fitness Block
a. Goals. The fitness block is designed to fulfill the following goals:
• To motivate cadets to regard regular exercise as a duty of the cadet lifestyle.
• To train cadets in safe ways to exercise properly.
• To comprehend how basic nutrition, proper hydration, and regular exercise affect a cadet's personal energy levels and the ability to achieve his or her goals.
• To use fitness activities, games, drills, sports, etc., as vehicles for teamwork and camaraderie.

5.5 Character Block
a. Goals. The character block is designed to fulfill the following goals:
• To solidify cadets' knowledge of the Core Values – the vocabulary, their need as guideposts, and
examples of how the Core Values apply to real life scenarios.
• To equip cadets with practical skills for becoming a Core Values leader in their daily lives.
• To demonstrate to cadets that heroes they respect live according to a personal code of honor, and to inspire cadets to commit to the Core Values as a way of life.
• To promote the habit of self-reflection as a tool for character development and maintenance.

So no, it is not a cadet basic training.

[xray328]

That's not, this is, which is what my comment was in regards to.

I understand the reason why drill instruction is setup like it is. But you can't say in place movements are all you need for the Curry, the Curry prepares you for encampment, now show up knowing how to march in formation.

Seems like there's a lot of debate on what a cadet should show up with. The consensus seems to be that it's not cadet basic training, but if the kid can't march then that's what it becomes. Since the Curry isn't changing and NHQ says that's what's required to attend, I agree then that encampments have to be prepared to accept kids that are going to need that "cadet basic training".

And yes, 2% is a small percentage...unless your kids in that 2% (raises hand).

If every non-staff cadet at encampment showed up able to perform Curry mandated in-place drill movements, a competent staff would be able to herd them from place to place, in step, within an hour of falling in to their flights. Heck, 50 of us were doing that at the Ft. Polk reception station on our way to our first breakfast, led by a prior service NG Specialist and a former CAP cadet (this guy).

Flanks, columns, all the rest can build on itself. Throw in some element leaders who are already cadet NCOs. 

This isn't the problem it seems to be. Individual and element level is where the learning curve is. Flight level gets picked up at encampment on the fly. Squadron and higher level drill impacts cadre, with students only needing to "keep on keeping on" for the most part. If flights dont have it down by 2-3 days in, look closer at the cadre.

[Mitchell 1969]

Sounds like cadet basic training 

Your words. Not mine.

My words are:

The Curry standards are a necessary foundation. The rest is built on that. "Basic training" implies arriving with no foundation.

[xray328]

Call it what you want, teaching cadets to march in formation is something that should be taught at home and not something the cadre should have to do.  There are "basic" skills every cadet should show up to encampment with, and the ability to march in formation is one of them. If you have to teach that skill you are teaching them CAP basics.  The encampment is not "basic training", per say, all I'm saying is that it is training the cadets in some very basic areas, again, which they should have already been taught at home. That skill only is what I'm referring to, certainly not the encampment as a whole. Training cadets in some basic areas does not make it "basic training".

On the flip side, because the Curry is the standard, and marching in formation isn't included, it needs to be something the cadre are prepared to teach. It still goes back to what the expectation is. If encampment leaders expect that they should be able to have these skills upon arrival this needs to be looked at and the encampment adjusted accordingly.

A big deal either way? Not at all.

[NC Hokie]

The encampment is not "basic training", per say, all I'm saying is that it is training the cadets in some very basic areas, again, which they should have already been taught at home.

This x 1000!

If you look at the Cadet Encampment Handbook, more than half of the leadership material covers topics from the first chapter of the leadership book.  If your squadron is doing things the way NHQ wants them done, encampment is the third time that cadets are exposed to that material after Great Start and their own reading.

[lordmonar]

Yes X-ray you are correct. But that knowledge is not required for Curry and Curry is all that is required for Encampment.   Ergo if the cadre wants the students to march in formation they got to be prepared to teach it.

[Luis R. Ramos]

X, National seems to think otherwise. Marching is not a basic thing anymore.

Stick to the basics as presented by NHQ.

[xray328]

Yes X-ray you are correct. But that knowledge is not required for Curry and Curry is all that is required for Encampment.   Ergo if the cadre wants the students to march in formation they got to be prepared to teach it.

My point exactly, thanks Lordsmonar.

Sorry if I didn't explain myself better in previous posts, I didn't mean to offend anyone.

[xray328]

X, National seems to think otherwise. Marching is not a basic thing anymore.

Stick to the basics as presented by NHQ.

And that's totally fine. Like I keep saying, if cadre know and expect that it's obviously a moot point.

I see drill and ceremonies in the curriculum, I assume it's being addressed there.

[Mitchell 1969]

Yes X-ray you are correct. But that knowledge is not required for Curry and Curry is all that is required for Encampment.   Ergo if the cadre wants the students to march in formation they got to be prepared to teach it.

Indeed.

But I just had a scary thought:

People aren't teaching/testing the Curru D&C requirements, awarding the ribbon and STOPPING, are they?

Curry is the minimum requirement. Testing is to those standards. But there's nothing stopping anyone from progressing to element and flight D&C. It's quite possible to have Curry cadets show up at encampment knowing how to step off, halt, double time, flank, column...in which case their adaptation to the encampment environment is enhanced. Meanwhile, the ones with only Curry knowledge have the foundation to adapt to emcpmemt while giving them a leg up on squadron D&C.

[stitchmom]

I'll eat crow!     Spam is right about the stress. Trying to acquire proper uniforms, and figuring out the packing list as you go is very stressful.  There are only so many things you have time to invent the wheel with - figure out what the item is, buy it and then exchange it for different one, acquire from the unit, exchange it from the unit, order from vanguard, figure out how to deal with it not fitting right, etc. And we have wonderful leaders bending over backwards to help.

IMO a packing list that is more specific for some of the items would help.  Like have another page listing what the item is used for or specific details.  If items are optional should be listed as optional. If there is something helpful but not required, that would be good to list too, hearing it word of mouth last minute isn't enough time.

A mom's cheat sheet of where the item is at Walmart or local dept store and price would be helpful too. For example I found a twin XL blanket in green and gray for $4.88 at Walmart.


BTW Spam I printed out the cadet oath & values and made sure he knows them..sure enough he said he knew the oath but forgot. 

[abdsp51]

I'll eat crow!     Spam is right about the stress. Trying to acquire proper uniforms, and figuring out the packing list as you go is very stressful.  There are only so many things you have time to invent the wheel with - figure out what the item is, buy it and then exchange it for different one, acquire from the unit, exchange it from the unit, order from vanguard, figure out how to deal with it not fitting right, etc. And we have wonderful leaders bending over backwards to help.

IMO a packing list that is more specific for some of the items would help.  Like have another page listing what the item is used for or specific details.  If items are optional should be listed as optional. If there is something helpful but not required, that would be good to list too, hearing it word of mouth last minute isn't enough time.

A mom's cheat sheet of where the item is at Walmart or local dept store and price would be helpful too. For example I found a twin XL blanket in green and gray for $4.88 at Walmart.


BTW Spam I printed out the cadet oath & values and made sure he knows them..sure enough he said he knew the oath but forgot. 

Most if not all wings will have a web page devoted to encampment.  This will have the information for check in and the packing list as well.  Pack only what is on the list.