Don't try to be first in line for new CPPT

Started by dwb, February 18, 2015, 02:29:17 AM

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Майор Хаткевич

Oh, that I saw. I'm wondering about the online cadet version of CPP

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2015, 02:56:19 AM
Also, is it really that hard at the national level to find video that >doesn't< contain improper uniform wear and policy violations?
Or has it just gotten so bad that it's not worth trying?

I didn't see anything that really raised my hackles.  Did you have some specific concern?

(I mean, there was the usual "plastered on drill team/color guard uniform" and maybe some minor collar insignia positioning, but nothing I saw really hit my "if it looks wrong it is wrong" filter. )
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

PHall

Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on February 21, 2015, 02:46:57 AM
How does one get into it? The online system won't let SMs in.


DWB has powers and abilities that you don't have. We'll leave it at that. >:D

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: PHall on February 22, 2015, 05:41:16 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on February 21, 2015, 02:46:57 AM
How does one get into it? The online system won't let SMs in.


DWB has powers and abilities that you don't have. We'll leave it at that. >:D

Fair enough, but as a CP officer, maybe I should...

PHall

Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on February 22, 2015, 06:04:10 PM
Quote from: PHall on February 22, 2015, 05:41:16 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on February 21, 2015, 02:46:57 AM
How does one get into it? The online system won't let SMs in.


DWB has powers and abilities that you don't have. We'll leave it at that. >:D

Fair enough, but as a CP officer, maybe I should...

You're at what level, squadron?  He ain't.

dwb

You're going to blow my cover, Phil! :P

I'm a Region DCS/CP, but I don't think that has anything to do with it. Here are direct links to the new training --

Basic Course:
https://www.capnhq.gov/CAP.LMS.Web/Course/course_start.aspx?c=72

Advanced Course:
https://www.capnhq.gov/CAP.LMS.Web/Course/course_start.aspx?c=73

All the kinks should be worked out now. I was able to get in to the basic course, complete it, talked with my Region CC then he approved, then I did the advanced course and CC approved. All pretty frictionless, really.

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

#47
Quote from: NIN on February 22, 2015, 02:34:25 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2015, 02:56:19 AM
Also, is it really that hard at the national level to find video that >doesn't< contain improper uniform wear and policy violations?
Or has it just gotten so bad that it's not worth trying?

I didn't see anything that really raised my hackles.  Did you have some specific concern?

Several senior members clearly too heavy for BDUs, and cadets in the field with either no vest or a patrol-boy belt instead of a vest.

"Meh, what's the big deal?"

Videos like this get into the zeitgeist and the overall attitude of "whatever" is propagated.  NHQ videos should strive to be the textbook example of the way CAP should look for everyone, not just "whatever we can find that is close".

Also, there's no way that other video is legal.  You can't take a chunk of somebody's IP, edit and repurpose it, and
not, at a minimum, include credit and copyright notifications.

"That Others May Zoom"

ProdigalJim

Quote from: Eclipse on February 23, 2015, 02:14:03 AM

Also, there's no way that other video is legal.  You can't take a chunk of somebody's IP, edit and repurpose it, and
not, at a minimum, include credit and copyright notifications.

Actually, the courts have held that a teacher or instructor can copy a small snippet of a copyrighted work to include in a lesson under the Commentary & Criticism portion of the Fair Use doctrine; it's even easier when the lesson involved is being distributed free of charge and inures no benefit to the publisher.

Parody is the other use, and I suppose we could make the parody case for this particular video...but I digress... >:D
Jim Mathews, Lt. Col., CAP
VAWG/XP
My Mitchell Has Four Digits...

ProdigalJim

Quote from: PHall on February 22, 2015, 05:41:16 PM
DWB has powers and abilities that you don't have. We'll leave it at that. >:D

Having been in the reflected glow of dwb's Presence on a few occasions, I can confirm this to be true. We recently got him to stop levitating, however; it was scaring cadets...
Jim Mathews, Lt. Col., CAP
VAWG/XP
My Mitchell Has Four Digits...

JeffDG

I wish folks would proofread announcements before posting them and see that they acutally match other regs...like this:

http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/cadet_protection/
QuoteMembers must complete Cadet Protection Advanced Course before being assigned to the following positions: commanders, deputy commanders, vice commander (group or higher), chief of staff (wing or higher), director of cadet programs (group or higher), and inspector general. Further, encampment commanders, commandants of cadets, and NCSA directors and deputies are also required to complete the course.

Vice Commanders are Wing or higher (Groups have Deputy Commanders...I know, I is one), and same with "director of cadet programs"

Eclipse

^ noted previously.

It is somewhat flabbergasting how many members not assigned to wing level refer to themselves
as "Vice", "Director", "Chief", etc.

"That Others May Zoom"

arajca

Quote from: Eclipse on February 23, 2015, 08:02:27 PM
^ noted previously.

It is somewhat flabbergasting how many members not assigned to wing level refer to themselves
as "Vice", "Director", "Chief", etc.
Part of that is ego and part is that Eservices let's them be assigned as Director of Operations at the squadron level.

LSThiker


Eclipse

Quote from: LSThiker on February 23, 2015, 09:46:43 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on February 23, 2015, 07:57:26 PM
http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/cadet_protection/[/url]

Holy Crikey.  There are two C/Amn that have the Curry and Encampment Ribbons mixed around on that page.

Wow - missed that.  Nice that a mosquito has already been to encampment, not so nice that no one locally, or at NHQ bothered
to notice.

"That Others May Zoom"

Luis R. Ramos

#55
Prodigal-

You are right in that the courts agree that teachers can copy a snippet for face-to-face instruction. However, the copy cannot be kept seculora seculorum. (Sorry if I mangled that phrase, it was supposed to mean forever and ever.)

In the 1980's a school system in Indiana, Ivy Tech requested the Library record and keep videos of programs transmitted  by TV in the case that teachers wanted to use them for their curriculum. The company producing the program sued, and Ivy Tech lost. They had to erase all their programs so recorded. I think that Ivy Tech was also obligated to buy the programs so recorded by the court.

In the 1990s Kinko's, a national photocopy company was sued and lost. They would collect magazine articles, book chapters, and others from teachers, and photocopy those and sell them to students of said teachers. Both Kinkos and professors were doing it as a "Fair Use doctrine, protected by the Copyright Law." Several book publishers sued Kinkos. Kinkos lost.

This issue affects me in my regular job.

I am a school librarian, and used to work inb several college libraries. Many times, teachers would request college librarians to place copies of a particular article for their class reserve. So we have to tell teachers "we cannot do this for ever and ever."

Basically Fair Use says this: A. Purpose and Character. How will it impact the commercial aspect. B. Ammount of copyrighted work. What is the length of the material so copied? C. Nature of the copyrighted work. What is it? The comparison is made of a painting and a book. A painting can be so unique that copying it will not fall under Fair Use, but several photos of a book could be copied.  D. Effect on the market.

Although as a Librarian I have been asked by teachers to interpret it, I am not a lawyer. Before an institution tries to use copyrighted material, their lawyers must be consulted. Real lawyers, not the "armchair lawyers" that are in here.  >:D

So I will not say that CAP is violating the Copyright Law. Nor will I say it is not.

This is really more so in the realm of Ned.
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

JeffDG

Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on February 23, 2015, 09:59:28 PM
Although as a Librarian I have been asked by teachers to interpret it, I am not a lawyer. Before an institution tries to use copyrighted material, their lawyers must be consulted. Real lawyers, not the "armchair lawyers" that are in here.  >:D

So I will not say that CAP is violating the Copyright Law. Nor will I say it is not.

This is really more so in the realm of Ned.

"Fair Use" is just about the definition of a "Dog's Breakfast" in law if there ever was one.  I'm not a lawyer either, but do a fair amount of work with respect to intellectual property law for my profession (IT software licensing) and I've probably read more than your general-purpose family lawyer on Title 17 USC, but no way in he-double-hockey-sticks would I offer any kind of fair-use opinion on anything not blindingly obvious (for example, my quoting your post in this reply is clearly fair-use!)

Garibaldi

When I was in journalism school, I had to take a couple of law courses dealing with media and such. Fair Use, as it applied to our educational purposes, was defined to us students in Broadcast classes, in short, as "You may use copyrighted material as part of your coursework as long as you are not using the material for personal or financial gain." That covered our butts when it came to using music and video materials for a PR spot for our university television and radio stations and in class projects.
Since we are NOT an educational institution as such, that leads me to believe ANY use of copyrighted materials, even though we are not using them for the above said reasons, can have the copyright holders on us faster than Walt Flanagan's dog. I suppose it could loosely be argued that our mandate includes education but that's a fine line. We are not paid professionals.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

Eclipse

Quote from: Garibaldi on February 23, 2015, 10:45:53 PMWe are not paid professionals.

Wait, what?...

...that explains soooooo much...

Fair Use would probably allow for the "public" showing of the parts of the movies needed for SLS/CLC classes (though honestly having the clips
captured for those classes is probably a no-no, convenient or otherwise.

Posting an unattributed clip on the publicly-accessible side of the website of a national organization seems to me that it would be a problem.
If for no other reason then the lack of credits or attribution.

"That Others May Zoom"

Ned

If you will forgive the observation, but this is sadly typical of CAPTalk. 

In a thread devoted to resolving some important technical issues with a new training program designed to protect cadets (which has apparently been resolved), the usual suspects would rather nitpick and sharpshoot photographs of actual cadets and engage in a legal debate by non-lawyers.

This forum has such potential to be a useful resource for the membership and our stakeholders.

It can even serve the same sort of social component as the conversations we all have in the squadron parking lot (or local coffee shop) after our meetings.  A mixture of camaraderie and professional development.

But no, we are going to further dilute the signal to noise ratio endlessly playing "Uniform Gotcha" and listening to legal trivia contests.

Move along folks, nothing to see here.