OKWG Cadets at Tomb of Unknown replica

[a2capt]

Did the FB thread vanish? It's being elusive to locate..

[lordmonar]

Whoever is running it, they're probably the most arrogant people in CAP judging by the facebook thread which unraveled after this came out. It's sad that such a performance would be overshadowed by the blatant uniform violations, but the face they were arguing and being condescending towards AD military types about it was over the line.

Not seeing the FB thread.....but just to play devil's advocate......imagine you pull off a demonstration of drill and ceremony that, for the little bit I did see, was very impressive....and then instead of anyone saying "good job", "That was cool" or anything positive you get "Why the hell is that cadet wearing full size medals?!"  "How dare you wear the Tomb Guard Badge!" etc, et al.

Now....I'm not saying they should be wearing those things.......I'm just saying that we sometimes attack something way out or proportion to the violation.   

So it is not unreasonable to think that the officers involved may get defensive and they may come across as arrogant.

This happens all the time here on CT (I know I'm guilty of it, on both the attack side and the defensive side).

As I suggested before.....this is a chain of command issue.   If you got problems with it....then report it to the appropriate level and be done with it.

OKWG  CC says he's got a waiver.....good enough for me.  Region and National can take care of it if that is not true.  Beyond that we are just trashing a bunch of cadets who put on a pretty impressive display.  Looked sharp in their uniforms (violations and all).

[/rant]

[Майор Хаткевич]

The Cadet Oath
I pledge that I will serve faithfully in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program, and that I will attend meetings regularly, participate actively in unit activities, obey my officers, wear my uniform properly, and advance my education and training rapidly to prepare myself to be of service to my community, state, and nation.

Don't even need to "bust out" the regs. What would have been lost, had they done this in proper CAP uniform? By the way, the pictures show them standing with feet closed = Honor Guard drill. Semantics sure. We have an Honor Guard Uniform, they could have worn it. 

[NIN]

Did the FB thread vanish? It's being elusive to locate..

A black van rolled up and ....

[lordmonar]

Not really the issue.

Sure nothing would be lost if they just did it with normal CAP uniform....or even the Honor Guard Uniform. 

On the other hand.....what is lost by what they did?

No really......what is the REAL problem as presented?

Lots of special teams wear uniforms that are not in the regs.....I submit to you the real tomb guards break the normal army uniform regs.....what would be lost if they just wore their normal uniforms?

Making command decisions is part of being a commander....you or I may disagree with what a commander decides....but it is not up to us if that is a "good decision" or not....it is up the commander's chain of command.

So....again....if anyone has a problem...then contact the commander's chain of command and voice your concerns.

[SilentPhantom]

Not really the issue.

Sure nothing would be lost if they just did it with normal CAP uniform....or even the Honor Guard Uniform. 

On the other hand.....what is lost by what they did?

No really......what is the REAL problem as presented?

Lots of special teams wear uniforms that are not in the regs.....I submit to you the real tomb guards break the normal army uniform regs.....what would be lost if they just wore their normal uniforms?

Making command decisions is part of being a commander....you or I may disagree with what a commander decides....but it is not up to us if that is a "good decision" or not....it is up the commander's chain of command.

So....again....if anyone has a problem...then contact the commander's chain of command and voice your concerns.

^+1

[Panzerbjorn]

My presumption is that these cadets had to jump through a lot of hoops in order to do this.  So my question is this....

Does anyone know if the powers that granted permission to CAP to perform this ceremony put on any caveats such as "You will use M1s with bayonets, you will wear HG badges, etc.", as a condition of approval being given to perform this ceremony?

If NHQ doesn't have a problem with it, and the OKWG CC doesn't have a problem with it, it would seem to me that that would be the end of the issue.

[Alaric]

The OKWG CC does not answer to any of us.....if we doubt his word...then we contact the region commander and let them handle it.

I concur, Col Cavett doesn't need to show or explain to the internet any justification for how his Wing's program is run.

CHAPTER 3 – CIVIL AIR PATROL HONOR GUARD UNIFORM
3-1. General. This chapter prescribes the standardized uniform worn by Civil Air Patrol Honor Guards. This uniform is approved for wear during Honor Guard duties and performances only. National Cadet Competition Drill Teams, Color Guards or other CAP special teams will not wear this uniform. The Honor Guard Uniform consists of the service dress uniform coat with epaulets and slacks/trousers, male service cap with cadet officer cap device, white ascot with Honor Guard patch, metallic silver shoulder cord, white pistol belt, white gloves, and a brown non-operating parade rifle with white leather sling.

Eclipse, the uniform regulation regarding the Honor Guard uniform is specific to the Honor Guard uniform. No Ascot, so it must be one of those other "special teams" that the chapter doesn't apply to.

It's a lot of getting riled up about Cadets doing a good thing, and doing it well. Your interpretation of the regulation is not a problem for the OKWG, who has done this for years, done it well, and done it with the same safety guidance as the rest of the organization.

Now, a chapter of the uniform manual only applying to one activity is stupid... Why would the uniform be different for a specific activity and not the same for everyone.... I'm looking at you, NESA Mission Aircrew School... 

Gotta love the T-shirt and Khaki shorts combination

NESA MAS Student 2010, 2013
NESA MAS Staff 2011, 2012