Promoting 2 mos

[ilovecap]

 I want to promote every 2 month but my squadron has a hard time of doing that. This is because our weekly meetings are always packed we barely have enough time for review boards, and the newly required drill tests. I always work hard to finish the all the required AE and leadership tests, PT, etc but review boards that have been delayed again and again hold me back. I really want to challenge myself promoting every 2 mos but i cant. Other squadrons are able to promote their cadets every 2 mos but not my squadron. Any advice on this? And advice on promoting every 2 mos?

[PHall]

Why do you feel the need to promote every two months?  It's not a race you know.

[Danger]

Fun Fact- you can promote every 8 weeks.

Don't worry about promoting mega-fast. It's good to challenge yourself, so keep on working on your goals. But be cautious not to promote too fast. Understand your leadership capabilities and if you think you don't have what it takes to be, say, a master sergeant, don't promote. Talk to your cadet chain of command and they can help you out a lot.

My biggest tip would be to get everything done early. So that every 8th week, you have all your stuff done and all that is left is your oath and review board. Then you don't need to waste their time or any other cadets promotion time and you can get straight to it.

Good luck

[Майор Хаткевич]

Review boards are only required for Milestones. If the unit is unable to have them for every promotion, then they shouldn't have them. The SM staff can make the call without them.

[Spaceman3750]

Drill tests have existed since at least 2005 when I was a cadet.

[Майор Хаткевич]

2005? Didn't the new curriculum come in around 2008-09?

[Spaceman3750]

2005? Didn't the new curriculum come in around 2008-09?

Yeah, but its my recollection that they existed before then. Maybe it was just a review board thing. Either way, they're not new.

[jeders]

2005? Didn't the new curriculum come in around 2008-09?

Yeah, but its my recollection that they existed before then. Maybe it was just a review board thing. Either way, they're not new.

IIRC, there was a drill test for Curry (doing) and Wright Brothers (commanding), but that was it. With the new curriculum which was implemented in 2010-11 time frame, there is now a drill test for every enlisted achievement.

[abdsp51]

Review boards are only required for Milestones. If the unit is unable to have them for every promotion, then they shouldn't have them. The SM staff can make the call without them.

Boards are not required for promotions in any capacity ISW CAPR52-16 5.2.d

[lordmonar]

I want to promote every 2 month but my squadron has a hard time of doing that. This is because our weekly meetings are always packed we barely have enough time for review boards, and the newly required drill tests. I always work hard to finish the all the required AE and leadership tests, PT, etc but review boards that have been delayed again and again hold me back. I really want to challenge myself promoting every 2 mos but i cant. Other squadrons are able to promote their cadets every 2 mos but not my squadron. Any advice on this? And advice on promoting every 2 mos?

This is a question you need to address to your local leadership.

[NC Hokie]

Boards are not required for promotions in any capacity ISW CAPR52-16 5.2.d

No, but they are allowed, so any argument that they should be done away with in this particular case will likely fall on deaf ears.  Unfortunately, this seems to be yet another case of unnecessary delay caused by the lack of any regulatory requirement that promotion boards be held regularly or that they make decisions in a timely manner.

[Pylon]

Boards are not required for promotions in any capacity ISW CAPR52-16 5.2.d

Boards are never required, but a CAPF 50 review is required once per phase, at some point during the phase.  Since a board is required to use CAPF 50 as a basis for their review, many units accomplish the CAPF 50 by using the board format.  However, you're right in that boards are not required (I used to accomplish CAPF 50 reviews as a DCC by my own knowledge and talking to that cadet's cadet supervisors). 

If the unit is having trouble fitting in boards in a timely manner, and that alone is causing cadets to be held up for promotion, then the unit should absolutely dispense with the review boards.

The drill tests can be administered by a senior-ranking cadet (with the supervision of a senior member/testing officer), so even a SM with no knowledge of cadet programs could help adminster the drill tests by using a knowledgeable cadet officer, for example, if the unit is having a hard time scheduling administration of those as well.

[abdsp51]

We actually revamped our board process from every achievement to every phase.  And yes while it's not required but a CAPF50 is there is a couple different ways to approach it.

[lordmonar]

I'm not a big fan of boards....but I will not argue their use.

HOWEVER.......any thing that is just bureaucratic  none sense that slows down cadet's progression needs to be dumped or stream lined.

IF.....I SAY AGAIN.....IF a cadet has completed ALL the requirements for promotion...then he needs to be promoted ASAP.

"we only do PRBs every other month....and if you miss it you have to wait two more months" is NOT an acceptable answer in my book.

I understand that we need a schedule and there are a lot of things going on that need to be done....and we have to manage our time.   However....we also need to keep our cadets promoting rapidly.  If they are on the ball and kicking butt and getting everything done....and meeting the subjective promotion requirements......then we need to promote them.

To the OP.

Talk to your chain of command about this.   It sounds like you have a very busy squadron...that's a good thing.....let them know how this is effecting you and your needs to progress.

[PHall]

IF.....I SAY AGAIN.....IF a cadet has completed ALL the requirements for promotion...then he needs to be promoted ASAP.

The cadet gets promoted when and only when the Squadron Commander approves it.
The cadet can fill all the squares, but if the Squadron Commander doesn't feel that the cadet is ready, then they don't approve it.
No approval, no promotion, it's as simple as that.

Some units do use promotion review boards. But their function is to provide the Commander the infomation they need to decide if the cadet is ready for promotion.
At least that's how it's supposed to happen.

[ol'fido]

As I said in a different thread, the two month rule is to provide a MINIMUM time between promotions. It is not a requirement by any means. If your only goal is to promote every two months, you are probably not taking the time to REALLY learn the material. If you study it with the goal of passing the test only, it will not sink in. If you set down and take the time to really learn the material without the two month "deadline", the tests will come a lot easier and things will start to click in your brain. To try and promote every two months is fine if you can absorb the material. If the two month deadline is more important than actually learning the material, you need to check priorities.

We have the same problem in ES with people who learn the tasks and retain it just long enough to get evaluated. Or they learn just enough to get qualified, and then go "Done" and never learn another thing.

Qualified does NOT equal competent.

[NC Hokie]

IF.....I SAY AGAIN.....IF a cadet has completed ALL the requirements for promotion...then he needs to be promoted ASAP.

The cadet gets promoted when and only when the Squadron Commander approves it.
The cadet can fill all the squares, but if the Squadron Commander doesn't feel that the cadet is ready, then they don't approve it.
No approval, no promotion, it's as simple as that.

Yeah, it may have been better to have said that the promotion decision needs to be made ASAP.

[a2capt]

Drill tests have existed since at least 2005 when I was a cadet.

Leadership 2000 has two Drill Tests. For Achievement 1 and 2.

The Wright Brothers test is the same drill test in both Leadership 2000 and Learn to Lead.

Learn to Lead added a Drill related test to each of it's achievements.

[lordmonar]

IF.....I SAY AGAIN.....IF a cadet has completed ALL the requirements for promotion...then he needs to be promoted ASAP.

The cadet gets promoted when and only when the Squadron Commander approves it.
The cadet can fill all the squares, but if the Squadron Commander doesn't feel that the cadet is ready, then they don't approve it.
No approval, no promotion, it's as simple as that.

Some units do use promotion review boards. But their function is to provide the Commander the infomation they need to decide if the cadet is ready for promotion.
At least that's how it's supposed to happen.

Re-read what I said.

If the cadet has completed all the requirements including the subjective ones (i.e. the cadet is "ready" to promote) then he needs to be promoted.
I hate boards because there is no way that a 15-30 minute board is going to make or break a cadet's readiness to be promoted.

As a commander or DCC I don't need a board to give me a recommendation.  I ask the cadet's supervisors...his flight commander and flight sergeant for their recommendation.

IMHO most PRB's are simply a waste of time. 

I don't hate them enough to make a big stink about them....but have them or not.......I stand by what I said.   We are doing a disservice to our cadets if we delay their promotions one minute longer then they need to be.

[lordmonar]

As I said in a different thread, the two month rule is to provide a MINIMUM time between promotions. It is not a requirement by any means. If your only goal is to promote every two months, you are probably not taking the time to REALLY learn the material.

As a goal...or as a minimum.  I hate when people tell a cadet to slow down.  It is contrary to the Cadet Oath to slow down.   NOW......if you want to talk to his leadership about promoting cadets too soon......go for it.  But don't tell cadets to slow down.

If you study it with the goal of passing the test only, it will not sink in.

So?  It will only sink in through the leadership lab.

If you set down and take the time to really learn the material without the two month "deadline", the tests will come a lot easier and things will start to click in your brain.

Are you suggesting that if you study with out a dead line.......you learn easier?  This makes no sense.

To try and promote every two months is fine if you can absorb the material. If the two month deadline is more important than actually learning the material, you need to check priorities.

  You can't promote if you don't learn the material.......ergo your hang up with those who strive to promote quickly....is misguided.   

We have the same problem in ES with people who learn the tasks and retain it just long enough to get evaluated. Or they learn just enough to get qualified, and then go "Done" and never learn another thing.

Qualified does NOT equal competent.

WRONG   qualified does mean competent.......if not then you need to fire your trainers and evaluators.
But you are talking apple and oranges here.

Bottom line......COMMANDERS and Deputy Commanders for Cadets are responsible for promoting cadets when.....and only when they are "ready" for promotion.  If they are ready in 8 weeks.....then they need to be promoted.   NO ONE........I SAY AGAIN....NO ONE should be telling cadets that they need not "advance rapidly" in the cadet program.

The need to study and take their tests, they need to work on their PT, they need to attend their CD and AE briefs and participate in squadron activities.  They need to participate in the leadership lab portions of the CP......and they need to do that every day with out delay.   And we as CP leaders need to be observing, guiding and mentoring our cadets.....and we need to promote THE DAY that they complete all the requirements.

[ol'fido]

As I said in a different thread, the two month rule is to provide a MINIMUM time between promotions. It is not a requirement by any means. If your only goal is to promote every two months, you are probably not taking the time to REALLY learn the material.

As a goal...or as a minimum.  I hate when people tell a cadet to slow down.  It is contrary to the Cadet Oath to slow down.   NOW......if you want to talk to his leadership about promoting cadets too soon......go for it.  But don't tell cadets to slow down.

If you study it with the goal of passing the test only, it will not sink in.

So?  It will only sink in through the leadership lab.

If you set down and take the time to really learn the material without the two month "deadline", the tests will come a lot easier and things will start to click in your brain.

Are you suggesting that if you study with out a dead line.......you learn easier?  This makes no sense.

To try and promote every two months is fine if you can absorb the material. If the two month deadline is more important than actually learning the material, you need to check priorities.

  You can't promote if you don't learn the material.......ergo your hang up with those who strive to promote quickly....is misguided.   

We have the same problem in ES with people who learn the tasks and retain it just long enough to get evaluated. Or they learn just enough to get qualified, and then go "Done" and never learn another thing.

Qualified does NOT equal competent.

WRONG   qualified does mean competent.......if not then you need to fire your trainers and evaluators.
But you are talking apple and oranges here.

Bottom line......COMMANDERS and Deputy Commanders for Cadets are responsible for promoting cadets when.....and only when they are "ready" for promotion.  If they are ready in 8 weeks.....then they need to be promoted.   NO ONE........I SAY AGAIN....NO ONE should be telling cadets that they need not "advance rapidly" in the cadet program.

The need to study and take their tests, they need to work on their PT, they need to attend their CD and AE briefs and participate in squadron activities.  They need to participate in the leadership lab portions of the CP......and they need to do that every day with out delay.   And we as CP leaders need to be observing, guiding and mentoring our cadets.....and we need to promote THE DAY that they complete all the requirements.

1. It is my understanding from when this came out that the two month promotion schedule was at the request of the AF. It was explained at the time that the AF was giving E-3 to Mitchell cadets. They were getting before that cadets that had only a few months in the program who were testing and promoting about once a month and getting their Mitchell in 6-9 months. These cadets would show up at Lackland and many of them would be barely more competent than recruits that cam in off the street. As I said the 2 month rule was supposed to be a minimum and not a requirement. It can be a goal if the cadet is that locked in, BUT IT SHOULD NOT BE THE ONLY GOAL. I AM NOT TELLING ANYBODY TO SLOW DOWN. I AM TELLING THEM TO MAKE SURE THEY LEARN THE MATERIAL BEFORE THEY PROMOTE.

2. We have nearly all of us crammed for a test and then promptly forgotten the material.  If you have done this and retained everything, then you have a photographic memory. Good for you. But the rest of us aren't so blessed. The leadership lab is part of the promotion process not an afterthought. "OK, YOU HAVE PASSED THE TEST. YOUR'RE QUALIFIED. NOW GO LEARN WHAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BEFORE YOU "QUALIFIED". "

3. What I am suggesting is that they set down and learn the material. If they can do it in an hour that's fine. If they can do it in 6 mos. that's fine. I am suggesting that they take the time they need whatever that is to learn the material. AND THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

4. I have no problem with cadets who want to promote quickly. I have a problem with cadets who want to promote before they are ready and with seniors that push them to do so. HOW IS THAT MISGUIDED. I have seen cadets who were not pushed hard enough and I have seen cadets that were promoted way beyond their knowledge and maturity. Both are wrong.

5. I have seen plenty of people in this organization who were "QUALIFIED" according to the the notations in their file who weren't the least bit COMPETENT.  Competence means more than just knowing the provided materials and going through the motions of training. It means having a deeper understanding of why things work the way they do, of knowing the materials not just intellectually but almost instinctively, of being able to make decisions and perform the correct actions when something happens that is not covered in the manuals and regs. THAT IS COMPETENT. Are we going to get that and promote a cadet every two months. Probably not. But we can instill that mindset of learning our craft to that level.

6. So bottom line, I am not telling cadets to slow down. I'm telling cadets to learn the program to the best of their ability. I am telling seniors to teach, challenge, and encourage their cadets. I am telling seniors to look and see if they know the material or are they just wanting the bling as fast as they can get it.  DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU.

[NorCal21]

2005? Didn't the new curriculum come in around 2008-09?

Yeah, but its my recollection that they existed before then. Maybe it was just a review board thing. Either way, they're not new.

IIRC, there was a drill test for Curry (doing) and Wright Brothers (commanding), but that was it. With the new curriculum which was implemented in 2010-11 time frame, there is now a drill test for every enlisted achievement.

I remember there being drill tests for promotion when I was a cadet back around 1990.

[kirbahashi]

1. It is my understanding from when this came out that the two month promotion schedule was at the request of the AF. It was explained at the time that the AF was giving E-3 to Mitchell cadets. They were getting before that cadets that had only a few months in the program who were testing and promoting about once a month and getting their Mitchell in 6-9 months. These cadets would show up at Lackland and many of them would be barely more competent than recruits that cam in off the street....

I think the thread (as is usually the case here on this site) has gone off OP.  I do want to add a few things to this comment however.  2 months per promotion was a rule when I was a cadet (1989-1992).  And to be technical, someone pointed out 8 weeks/56 days is the current minimum.  SMF February!   I remember this quite well because I did not work toward my promotions as well as I should.  Luckily I received my Mitchell about 2 months before heading to basic.  And because of that, I was an A1C, and I was able to graduate USAF BMT at DOT 17.  They stopped that part after CY 1992.  And if the USAF did provide input to the amount of time, it probably was not because of the competence of "shake & bake" Mitchell Cadets.

You receive E3 in the USAF upon enlistment for the following:  Receiving the Mitchell Award, So many years of JROTC(don't know how many and don't care), 6 year enlistee, OR 60 semester hours of college.  Regardless, neither of the four areas pits one person over the straight up civilian.  It serves as an incentive to join.  That extra $93 a month is worth it!  It has nothing to do with leadership ability or the like.  You're an A1C.  The only thing you lead is the line at the DFAC.

Going back to the OP, the cadet asked what could be done.  And from the sounds of it, some of us answered, and some of us got into semantics with one another (as I am doing now  )  As I read his post, the meetings were not affording the board time to the members.  Then this is a fail on the unit leadership.  If the cadet is meeting the boards and board deems not ready for promotion, then the cadet needs to work on it. If it is a scheduling issue, then the cadet needs to tactfully address it with his chain of command.  If it is the board saying not ready, that cadet needs to learn more.  Maybe they could shadow an older more experienced cadet.

I am not a big fan of boards myself (I have seen too many people, too many times, use it to further their own misguided view of CAP and the world onto subordinates).  We will do them for milestones + 1 more in Phase II and Phase III.  Using the Form 50 as a basis.  And it never gets to the point where a cadet is waiting on the board to promote, unless that cadet just is not ready.  But you could bring up the fact that a C/CMSgt is not really a CMSgt.  So the level of expectation shouldn't be there... But that is another post.

[abdsp51]

You receive E3 in the USAF upon enlistment for the following:  Receiving the Mitchell Award, So many years of JROTC(don't know how many and don't care), 6 year enlistee, OR 60 semester hours of college.  Regardless, neither of the four areas pits one person over the straight up civilian.  It serves as an incentive to join.  That extra $93 a month is worth it!  It has nothing to do with leadership ability or the like.  You're an A1C.  The only thing you lead is the line at the DFAC.

Anyone with this in their contract will be promoted upon completion of technical training and not upon enlistment.  College, Mitchell and 3 years of JROTC will land A1C upon initial entry into the AF regardless of enlistment duration.

[lordmonar]

The point being......it is not really a big deal for the USAF on how much a CAP cadet actually knows going into BMTS.

There is no PA anymore.....so they still have to do the full BMTS course....just like the "civilian" with 60 credit hours......and JROTC has no real standards.....you just have complete 3 years....they may not know their left foot from their right.

[TexasCadet]

Just some advice. I'm a 13-year-old C/SMSgt. I am not immature, and I have the qualities for the rank. I do regret, however, that I promoted too fast. Enjoy the time as an enlisted person, because when your an officer, you are more of a planner than a doer. Not promoting every 2 months is not the end of the world.

[Storm Chaser]

Just some advice. I'm a 13-year-old C/SMSgt. I am not immature, and I have the qualities for the rank.

Advice taken. I'm sure you have the level of maturity expected of a 13 year old cadet. 

[abdsp51]

Just some advice. I'm a 13-year-old C/SMSgt. I am not immature, and I have the qualities for the rank. I do regret, however, that I promoted too fast. Enjoy the time as an enlisted person, because when your an officer, you are more of a planner than a doer. Not promoting every 2 months is not the end of the world.

Are you mentoring your junior NCOs and airmen?  Do you know the required regs, manuals and publications like the back of your hand?  Are you providing solid training for your people with valid sources?  Are you providing sound guidance to your senior cadet leadership?

[Eclipse]

The issue of progression is a double-edged sword because cadets "expire", and there are far too many who age-out under grade or quit
once their initiative intersects with the calendar and Spaatz was no longer an option (even if they could still have productive years in the program).

No cadet should ever be promoted ahead of their abilities, but delaying things artificially, especially just to make a misguided point about
what is "too fast", enjoy the "Chief experience", or any of the other 100 excuses we've heard is a bad idea as well.

NHQ has set the standard as written, why isn't relevent to those in the current channel, and commanders should respect that and allow
their cadets the opportunities as the curriculum indicates.