The Spaatz Award - is it worth it?

[C/CMSgt]

I was recently talking to my parents about my goal was to get the Spaatz award. I was talking about how it will take at least another two years to get it. They brought up the subject on whether it was worth it or not. Their big question is was if it will help me get anywhere in life when I start my career in the military. They also wanted to know, that in the event I didn't do the military and slected a civilian career, if it would actually help me in get anywhere.

Help?

[coudano]

The award is worth points in Academy admissions.

Other than that there are no direct "rewards" of the Spaatz.

However, the process of earning it, and the experiences that you (should) have to integrate, on the way to getting there, will make you a more mature and capable leader, which will help you in general in your pursuits in life.

Additionally, there is something to be said for the tenacity required to earn the Spaatz award.  Many cadets are /capable/ of meeting the requirements and passing the tests.  Few stay focused and on target long enough to actually reach it.  They get distracted and/or re-prioritize for various other reasons.  Having the ability to set a goal like that, and the self-discipline to stay on it through completion is another character trait which will serve you will for the rest of your life, whatever you do.

[Eclipse]

^+10

[Salty]

One of the biggest regrets I have in my CAP cadet career is the fact I only got one shot at the Spaatz Award and didn't earn it before I was forced to switch to Senior Member due to going to USAF BMT.  My motivation was the fact that I wanted to be the best and I wanted to finish what I started.

As was stated above, the lessons you learn while striving to achieve that goal are important.  In fact, those lessons are more important than the award itself in my opinion.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I was talking about how it will take at least another two years to get it.

Are you planning on doing something else before then?

They brought up the subject on whether it was worth it or not. Their big question is was if it will help me get anywhere in life when I start my career in the military.

It depends, are you planning on applying to a service academy? It should prepare you to be a better leader as said, so it has benefits, just not something you can put down on paper per se.

They also wanted to know, that in the event I didn't do the military and slected a civilian career, if it would actually help me in get anywhere.

See above.


As other said, pretty much everyone is able to get it done, but for some reason only 1/200 cadets do. I wouldn't make the cut because my PT wasn't up to par. I think I would have managed the actual knowledge part. A lot of cadets move to college. Others move on to other interests. Some get stuck at bottlenecks like C/CMSgt or 2d Lt and just give up.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Civil Air Patrol - Spaatz Award (earned only by 2.7% of cadets in the nation)...
With some explanation of the volunteer and ES aspects of the program would look really good on you college applications.

The lessons in leadership, both book and real life, carry over into every aspect of life.

General rule of goal setting is aim high, if you miss you'll still have done more than those who did not try.

So you aim for Spaatz and "only" get Eaker. You've still accomplished something over 90% cadets will not.

I made 1 try for the Spaatz and missed by 1 point on the Leadership Exam. I wish I had tried again.

[Майор Хаткевич]

2.7% is way off.

The typical breakdown is:
27% for Wright Brothers
15% for Mitchell
5% for Earhart
2% for Eaker
.5% for Spaatz.

Get your Mitchell, and the "benefits" of CAP are completed. You are now where only 15% of cadets have been. Stop here, it's your choice, but why did you join CAP? To get E-3 in the Air Force or to learn some great skills and have fun?

[Extremepredjudice]

You can always put the Spaatz on your resume... Not many people get to say they were a C/Col.

[Ned]

Is it worth the time and effort?

A great question!  It shows that you and your folks understand how important it is to focus your limited time towards activities that will help you in the future.

And I suspect you already know that it is not an easy question to answer.  Mostly because it depends on what your plans are, and what you think is important to help get you there.

But I know a couple of people in the civilian world you can ask - to see if it helped them.

You might want to start with NASA Astronaut Eric Boe, Spaatz #648.  (Although to be fair, he is also a USAF colonel, so you might not consider him a "civilian" when talking with your folks.)

I know a physician that credited the Spaatz Award  with helping her into medical school - and more importantly - with the discipline necessary to see it through.  Dr. Kay McLaughlin (internal medicine - somewhere in Michigan), Spaatz #526.

Of course, you can also speak to Delegate Rich Anderson #193, currently representing the 51st District in Virgnia.

Similarly, you can talk to David Simmons #447, a successful attorney in the Denver area.

I can't put her name in a public place, but I can also put you in touch with a senior FBI official who told me her Spaatz Award and CAP experience were the key to her career.




I know that you weren't really talking about military careers in your original question, but I have spoken with some distinguished flag officers, including Lt Gen Ted Bowlds #290, who credited his Spaatz Award with giving him a solid start in his AF career.  And Rear Admiral (ret) Deberah Loewer, #285, who recently retired after a distinguished Navy career.

These are just the people I personally know or have spoken to.  We have a lot of other distinguished Spaatz cadets serving their community, state, and nation.

Please PM and I can share phone nubemers and contact info.

Ned Lee
Spaatz #356

[Major Lord]

BTW, What Spaatz number are we up to now? There have not been many. My son ( Staff Sgt Ian Lord, USAF) and his Wife ( Megan Cleary Lord, 2nd Lt, USAF/ Medical Student) are both Spaatzen, and I know that CAP and the Spaatz "track" were the singe most positive and formative things in their education. In many ways, the Spaatz goal puts you into positions of responsibility in CAP faster than you may think you want advance. You might be facilitating things instead of riding the water slide, but I have never met a Spaatz Cadet who was a failure in life. ( okay except those two at the Academy, but I never met them....) Ned and his lovely wife are also Spaatzen, and remarkable and admirable human beings in every sense of the word.

Major Lord

[SarDragon]

1768+. That's as of August 2010 on The Spaatz Association site. Looks like they are behind a bit. It might be up to 1800 by now.

[davidsinn]

1768+. That's as of August 2010 on The Spaatz Association site. Looks like they are behind a bit. It might be up to 1800 by now.

1817 was the last one.

[DBlair]

You should absolutely go for your Spaatz.

Consider my story... I was a C/Lt Col by the time I was 15 and so I had plenty of time to go for it, not to mention my running times were far better than required and had a solid command of the material (including many perfect scores on previous tests, and I could actually recite portions of the materials by memory), and so I was confident that passing would not be an issue.

I casually put it off as not being a rush, eventually getting too comfortable as a C/Lt Col (as so many do) and was distracted with extensive CAP involvement at various echelons and command/staff roles, and then off to college I went, nonchalantly forgetting the Spaatz, and creating a big regret that I still have today, years and years later.

Without going down my resume, I have an extensive resume/CV filled with all sorts of grand accomplishments (everything from becoming an Eagle Scout at 13 to countless awards at the local, state, and national level and various personal and professional accomplishments), and yet the one thing that still irks me, is that I let myself get so distracted and didn't go for the Spaatz.

Don't allow yourself such a mistake that will (to at least some degree) be a disappointment and a regret.


Will the Spaatz put you on the fast track to life?

Not really, as most people don't even know what it is, with Eagle Scout gaining much much much more recognition/esteem. If applying for an Academy, the Spaatz can be helpful, and when you transition to a SM, you will be a Captain (instead of a 1st Lt, promotable to Capt in 18 months due to Eaker Award), automatically have credit for SLS, ECI-13, Tech and Senior Ratings in Cadet Programs, and automatically get your Yeager Award.

Otherwise, there aren't really any 'benefits' to the Spaatz, other than knowing you did with most never do, and that you successfully went all the way, start to finish at the highest point possible, and feeling pride and accomplishment in knowing that you succeeded with this goal.

My Advice: Go for the Spaatz. You'll be glad you did.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I first tested for the Spaatz at age 15, after fast-burning the cadet program (which I would never advise). The wing commander, LO, LNCO and a few others got stars in their eyes about having a young, young Spaatz recipient.

Guess what? 15's too young to take it. And I didn't pass.

So I waited until I was older, maybe a bit more mature. I passed two parts and narrowly failed two. On the second retest, I missed ONE QUESTION TOO MANY on one exam. Just one. So I'm as close as one can possibly get without grabbing that third diamond.

Would the Spaatz have done anything for me? The answer will land with a dull thud: No. Bragging rights, captain at 21, that's about it. Had I gone to West Virginia University, I'd have had an extra $1,000 scholarship from West Virginia Wing. But I went to a small, private college in Ohio, not a large diploma mill in what some arguably still consider the Third World.

I don't say it to discourage anyone. In fact, I think it's a lofty goal to snag Diamond No. 3. But you have to be realistic about what you want to do with it. If you want to go to USAFA or get a leg up in AFROTC, bango. If you decide that a bachelor's in journalism and a career in the media is what you want (which is what I did, needless to say), it doesn't do anything. If you stay in CAP, it adds credibility and knowledge you can apply in all sorts of places. Hey, Spaatz recipients put their pants on the same way the rest of us do. And an Earhart or Eaker can grease the skids in AFROTC probably as much as the Spaatz, anyway.

I say, take the exam. Prepare diligently and aim high. See the cadet program through. If you made it through all 16 achievements, it doesn't make sense not to stay the course and finish the race. Don't shy away from it, then regret it later. Go out there and kick its tail. And if it's beneficial in your career path after the cadet program, great. If not, great, too. Consider it, at the least, a point of pride.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

2.7% is way off.

.5% for Spaatz.

I meant to note the # was a  wild guess. My bad

[Major Lord]

2.7% is way off.

.5% for Spaatz.

I meant to note the # was a  wild guess. My bad

So only about .001 % of Spaatzen are convicted murderers? Excellent! 25% of all successful American presidential assassins have been CAP cadets!

Major Lord

[EMT-83]

How I love statistics!

[Spaceman3750]

You know, I could ask this same question about the GRW - is it worth it?

[Tim Medeiros]

You know, I could ask this same question about the GRW - is it worth it?

The question I pose in response to this and the original question, what do you gain by not getting it?

[Extremepredjudice]

How I love statistics!

87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[SarDragon]

How I love statistics!

87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

And 43.7% of them are at least partly incorrect.

[JeffDG]

You know, I could ask this same question about the GRW - is it worth it?

The question I pose in response to this and the original question, what do you gain by not getting it?

Two weeks of pay from work (RSC and NSC) and with your family.

[JeffDG]

How I love statistics!

87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

And 43.7% of them are at least partly incorrect.

14% of people know that!

[RogueLeader]

How I love statistics!

87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

And 43.7% of them are at least partly incorrect.

14% of people know that!

12% care.

[crisptheyounger]

To the OP,

"The road of life twists and turns and no two directions are ever the same. Yet our lessons come from the journey, not the destination."
- Don Williams, Jr.

That is how I personally view my time in CAP and my goal of earning the Spaatz award. As a C/Lt Col with a little over 5 years in the program, I have done practically everything I wanted to do in CAP, with the exception of one activity. Even now, I am eligible to attend that activity without getting the Spaatz. So, what's the point outside of having already caused myself stress over studying for the exams and now pushing myself in intense workouts to finally earn the award (Passed everything but the Physical Fitness test on my 1st attempt)? To me, it's about completing the journey.

However, if I was turning 21 tomorrow rather than in early 2013, I would be a somewhat unsettled over not being able to earn the Spaatz award, but I would never regret going for it. Through it, I have developed lasting friendships. I was able to go to Cadet Officer School, Hong Kong on International Air Cadet Exchange, and Washington, D.C. for a week during Civic Leadership Academy. I was able to serve on my wing's Cadet Advisory Council as recorder and later chair. Now, I am the region chair and serving on the National Cadet Advisory Council. This summer, I was Cadet Commander for an encampment. None of this would have happened if I had not stuck with the program.

I do not think I would be the person I am today if I was not going for the Spaatz award. I do not think high school would have turned out as well as it did if I had not being going for it. I do not think college would be turning out as well as it has been if I was not going for the Spaatz. If you want more specific examples on any of this, feel free to PM me.

I take it from your user name that you are a C/CMSgt. That said, most of what I listed above was from after I earned the Mitchell award. While it is not something everyone is able to earn, the Spaatz award is definitely something to go for. While you might not be able to earn, as other as mentioned how life can get in the way, you will learn and grow a lot just by continuing to promote towards earning the award. My advice would be to go for it.

[C/CMSgt]

To the OP,

"The road of life twists and turns and no two directions are ever the same. Yet our lessons come from the journey, not the destination."
- Don Williams, Jr.

That is how I personally view my time in CAP and my goal of earning the Spaatz award. As a C/Lt Col with a little over 5 years in the program, I have done practically everything I wanted to do in CAP, with the exception of one activity. Even now, I am eligible to attend that activity without getting the Spaatz. So, what's the point outside of having already caused myself stress over studying for the exams and now pushing myself in intense workouts to finally earn the award (Passed everything but the Physical Fitness test on my 1st attempt)? To me, it's about completing the journey.

However, if I was turning 21 tomorrow rather than in early 2013, I would be a somewhat unsettled over not being able to earn the Spaatz award, but I would never regret going for it. Through it, I have developed lasting friendships. I was able to go to Cadet Officer School, Hong Kong on International Air Cadet Exchange, and Washington, D.C. for a week during Civic Leadership Academy. I was able to serve on my wing's Cadet Advisory Council as recorder and later chair. Now, I am the region chair and serving on the National Cadet Advisory Council. This summer, I was Cadet Commander for an encampment. None of this would have happened if I had not stuck with the program.

I do not think I would be the person I am today if I was not going for the Spaatz award. I do not think high school would have turned out as well as it did if I had not being going for it. I do not think college would be turning out as well as it has been if I was not going for the Spaatz. If you want more specific examples on any of this, feel free to PM me.

I take it from your user name that you are a C/CMSgt. That said, most of what I listed above was from after I earned the Mitchell award. While it is not something everyone is able to earn, the Spaatz award is definitely something to go for. While you might not be able to earn, as other as mentioned how life can get in the way, you will learn and grow a lot just by continuing to promote towards earning the award. My advice would be to go for it.

I actually recently promoted to C/2d Lt. I should probably change my username... Anyways, awesome. Thank you for the insight, everyone! I really want to get my Spaatz now. All I have to do is convince my parental unit...

[sandman]

How I love statistics!

87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

And 43.7% of them are at least partly incorrect.

14% of people know that!

12% care.

(looks up z table in the back of the book...was the z greater than z critical value?)

So, we fail to reject the null hypothesis in favor of the alternate?

[jimmydeanno]

To the OP,

"The road of life twists and turns and no two directions are ever the same. Yet our lessons come from the journey, not the destination."
- Don Williams, Jr.

That is how I personally view my time in CAP and my goal of earning the Spaatz award. As a C/Lt Col with a little over 5 years in the program, I have done practically everything I wanted to do in CAP, with the exception of one activity. Even now, I am eligible to attend that activity without getting the Spaatz. So, what's the point outside of having already caused myself stress over studying for the exams and now pushing myself in intense workouts to finally earn the award (Passed everything but the Physical Fitness test on my 1st attempt)? To me, it's about completing the journey.

However, if I was turning 21 tomorrow rather than in early 2013, I would be a somewhat unsettled over not being able to earn the Spaatz award, but I would never regret going for it. Through it, I have developed lasting friendships. I was able to go to Cadet Officer School, Hong Kong on International Air Cadet Exchange, and Washington, D.C. for a week during Civic Leadership Academy. I was able to serve on my wing's Cadet Advisory Council as recorder and later chair. Now, I am the region chair and serving on the National Cadet Advisory Council. This summer, I was Cadet Commander for an encampment. None of this would have happened if I had not stuck with the program.

I do not think I would be the person I am today if I was not going for the Spaatz award. I do not think high school would have turned out as well as it did if I had not being going for it. I do not think college would be turning out as well as it has been if I was not going for the Spaatz. If you want more specific examples on any of this, feel free to PM me.

I take it from your user name that you are a C/CMSgt. That said, most of what I listed above was from after I earned the Mitchell award. While it is not something everyone is able to earn, the Spaatz award is definitely something to go for. While you might not be able to earn, as other as mentioned how life can get in the way, you will learn and grow a lot just by continuing to promote towards earning the award. My advice would be to go for it.

I actually recently promoted to C/2d Lt. I should probably change my username... Anyways, awesome. Thank you for the insight, everyone! I really want to get my Spaatz now. All I have to do is convince my parental unit...

Just remind them that one of the things that you learned in CAP is following through on your commitments to the end and that it's not about jumping ship once you get the tangible benefits.

[crisptheyounger]

To the OP,

"The road of life twists and turns and no two directions are ever the same. Yet our lessons come from the journey, not the destination."
- Don Williams, Jr.

That is how I personally view my time in CAP and my goal of earning the Spaatz award. As a C/Lt Col with a little over 5 years in the program, I have done practically everything I wanted to do in CAP, with the exception of one activity. Even now, I am eligible to attend that activity without getting the Spaatz. So, what's the point outside of having already caused myself stress over studying for the exams and now pushing myself in intense workouts to finally earn the award (Passed everything but the Physical Fitness test on my 1st attempt)? To me, it's about completing the journey.

However, if I was turning 21 tomorrow rather than in early 2013, I would be a somewhat unsettled over not being able to earn the Spaatz award, but I would never regret going for it. Through it, I have developed lasting friendships. I was able to go to Cadet Officer School, Hong Kong on International Air Cadet Exchange, and Washington, D.C. for a week during Civic Leadership Academy. I was able to serve on my wing's Cadet Advisory Council as recorder and later chair. Now, I am the region chair and serving on the National Cadet Advisory Council. This summer, I was Cadet Commander for an encampment. None of this would have happened if I had not stuck with the program.

I do not think I would be the person I am today if I was not going for the Spaatz award. I do not think high school would have turned out as well as it did if I had not being going for it. I do not think college would be turning out as well as it has been if I was not going for the Spaatz. If you want more specific examples on any of this, feel free to PM me.

I take it from your user name that you are a C/CMSgt. That said, most of what I listed above was from after I earned the Mitchell award. While it is not something everyone is able to earn, the Spaatz award is definitely something to go for. While you might not be able to earn, as other as mentioned how life can get in the way, you will learn and grow a lot just by continuing to promote towards earning the award. My advice would be to go for it.

I actually recently promoted to C/2d Lt. I should probably change my username... Anyways, awesome. Thank you for the insight, everyone! I really want to get my Spaatz now. All I have to do is convince my parental unit...

Well then, congratulations! And good luck!

[DBlair]

To the OP,

"The road of life twists and turns and no two directions are ever the same. Yet our lessons come from the journey, not the destination."
- Don Williams, Jr.

That is how I personally view my time in CAP and my goal of earning the Spaatz award. As a C/Lt Col with a little over 5 years in the program, I have done practically everything I wanted to do in CAP, with the exception of one activity. Even now, I am eligible to attend that activity without getting the Spaatz. So, what's the point outside of having already caused myself stress over studying for the exams and now pushing myself in intense workouts to finally earn the award (Passed everything but the Physical Fitness test on my 1st attempt)? To me, it's about completing the journey.

However, if I was turning 21 tomorrow rather than in early 2013, I would be a somewhat unsettled over not being able to earn the Spaatz award, but I would never regret going for it. Through it, I have developed lasting friendships. I was able to go to Cadet Officer School, Hong Kong on International Air Cadet Exchange, and Washington, D.C. for a week during Civic Leadership Academy. I was able to serve on my wing's Cadet Advisory Council as recorder and later chair. Now, I am the region chair and serving on the National Cadet Advisory Council. This summer, I was Cadet Commander for an encampment. None of this would have happened if I had not stuck with the program.

I do not think I would be the person I am today if I was not going for the Spaatz award. I do not think high school would have turned out as well as it did if I had not being going for it. I do not think college would be turning out as well as it has been if I was not going for the Spaatz. If you want more specific examples on any of this, feel free to PM me.

I take it from your user name that you are a C/CMSgt. That said, most of what I listed above was from after I earned the Mitchell award. While it is not something everyone is able to earn, the Spaatz award is definitely something to go for. While you might not be able to earn, as other as mentioned how life can get in the way, you will learn and grow a lot just by continuing to promote towards earning the award. My advice would be to go for it.

Your CAP involvement sounds a lot like mine as a Cadet. You make a great point that in merely striving for the Spaatz, the process/journey itself allows for personal development that may prove useful throughout life, and it is not so much that the Spaatz Award (specifically) yields automatic benefits to any notable extent. That said, just as I too became very comfortable as a C/Lt Col, don't neglect at least testing for the Spaatz, etc.

[Tim Medeiros]

You know, I could ask this same question about the GRW - is it worth it?

The question I pose in response to this and the original question, what do you gain by not getting it?

Two weeks of pay from work (RSC and NSC) and with your family.

Fair enough, and with the recent restrictions given the DL options those are certainly valid reasons to not pursue your Wilson, however some companies (as was mentioned by people I went to those schools with) will work with those who are going to those courses since it conveys information (operational and strategic leadership) that would be useful to the company.


On the other hand, what does a cadet gain by not pursuing the Spaatz?

[Ron1319]

I want to add a couple of things to the discussion, although Ned's response was extremely clear.  It's more than just whether or not it will specifically benefit you in life.  It's also about how you can benefit CAP by finishing the program.  I came back to CAP at 31 years old having been away for 8-9 years and I was astonished at how few cadet officers there were in Northern California.  The norm was for cadets to get some stripes, near the end of high school, and then move on with their lives.  Just a few cadets setting the example and now well into Phase IV and their motivating others.  We are seeing very significant growth in the cadet program and it's because of the few cadets that are well on their way to getting their Spaatz awards.  (22 weeks until Eaker and counting for two of them)

I could write a three page report on the ways that a group of cadets moving through the program can grow and what they can learn.  Those things aren't only things that can help the program but opportunities for growth that can certainly effect you for the rest of your life in ways that you won't be able to understand until much later.  I've had someone observe from watching me at my business that I am a master at delegation.  There is a reason why Ned's list of important people attribute their Spaatz accomplishment with their growth that helped them achieve other great things.  There is also probably a connection between the drive to complete the program (Eaker or Spaatz) and the drive to do great things. 

One more important thing -- My sister, her husband and I all believe that 90% of what we got out of the program came after we had three diamonds.  It's going to be hard to explain here, but things like command staff at encampment, IACE, out of state encampment leadership positions, NCC team commander, helping start a new squadron, National CAC chair, and duties at Wing HQ are all pretty much not available to a C/CMSgt.  And they shouldn't be. 

[Nathan]

Asking Spaatzens will only give half the story. I was always pretty motivated by listening to the people who capped out at Eaker tell me how much they regretted missing it, even if they didn't know exactly why.

[Ron1319]

I'm happy to lump C/LtC's in with Spaatzen for the purpose of saying that it's worth it to complete the program.  Either achievement will allow a cadet to contribute and grow as a Phase IV cadet.  If the question were "I have my Eaker and I want to know if it's worth it to take the Spaatz exam?" then the answer would be a definite "yes."

[Salty]

I regret not being able to take a second shot at it but I got drummed out of the cadet program because I went to USAF BMT. 

It's hard to say definitively but I think I would've been better prepared mentally and physically for the Spaatz had I been able to take it after I came home from USAF BMT and USAFSAM.  The person who left for BMT and USAFSAM was not the same person who came home 4.5 months later.

[FalconHatTrick]

Okay, I guess my input would be valid.  Been lurking behind the scenes of CT for a long time, but it seems to be time to speak up.

I made it through the cadet program and ended at Eaker.  I tested for the Spaatz once, and passed aerospace, failed leadership by two or three and decided to end the examination there, so no PT and no Essay.  At that point I was 20 years old, and it was about a month before my 21st birthday and figured once is enough.  So, I had been a C/Lt Col for about 2 years, and thought a lot about whether or not I should take it. 

A little background, I was already accepted into the college of my choice. I had some scholarships, but nothing to really brag about.  I got to the point in my CAP career where the "i love me wall" was full and collecting dust and it became about giving back to the squadron and really trying to inspire the younger generation. 

A couple years later, here I am.  A senior in college, graduating in June, a commercial pilot working on my CFI, I am employed as a pilot at a local skydiving dz.  Do i feel that getting my Spaatz could have helped? Not really.  I mean it would be nice to throw on my resume and have it be another talking point in an interview down the road, but so far not getting it hasn't hindered me in any way. 

The take away point would have to be, if you have the time to do it, go for it.  I should of done it sooner, than waiting two years, and rushing to get it in before my birthday.  I know there are many Spaatz Cadets out there who have done amazing things, but I also know there are Eaker, Earhart, Mitchell, etc Cadets out there doing amazing things.  Don't let the achievement of getting the Spaatz award be the sole decider on if you are going to achieve greatness in life. 

In the end, its your decision to take the test or not. Looking back, yeah it would have been nice, but I'm not going to lose sleep over the fact that I didn't pass.  I went into it saying, I want to pass at least the aerospace, and I did.  I am proud of myself for that, and honestly thats all that matters. 

I hope this helps in your future decisions, but in the end, YMMV.

[NCRblues]

I know there are many Spaatz Cadets out there who have done amazing things, but I also know there are Eaker, Earhart, Mitchell, etc Cadets out there doing amazing things. 

Also, there are many Spaatz cadets (and all the rest) who have gone on to do....nothing....

I do not judge a single cadet by what test he/she has taken and passed or failed or even attempted. I judge them on performance and respect. If a cadet wants to stay c/Lt. Col, than so be it, but that cadet must perform at c/Lt. Col or better. I have come across more than one Spaatz cadet that passed the tests, but should never have been given command of an ant hill, let alone other cadets in CAP.

In the end, it matters very little to anyone other than the person taking/not taking it and that person's family.

[MSG Mac]

How I love statistics!

87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

And 43.7% of them are at least partly incorrect.

14% of people know that!

"There are Lies, [darn] Lies, and Statistics"

[Nathan]

I know there are many Spaatz Cadets out there who have done amazing things, but I also know there are Eaker, Earhart, Mitchell, etc Cadets out there doing amazing things. 

Also, there are many Spaatz cadets (and all the rest) who have gone on to do....nothing....

I do not judge a single cadet by what test he/she has taken and passed or failed or even attempted. I judge them on performance and respect. If a cadet wants to stay c/Lt. Col, than so be it, but that cadet must perform at c/Lt. Col or better. I have come across more than one Spaatz cadet that passed the tests, but should never have been given command of an ant hill, let alone other cadets in CAP.

I generally avoid talking about "the attitude of Spaatz cadets", since there's no way anyone who disagrees with me can avoid pointing out my bias in the matter, but I would say that the Spaatz DOES indicate something that the Eaker doesn't.

When you see a Spaatz cadet, for the most part, you can at least feel somewhat safe that the individual knows how to get things done. That's definitely not to say that C/Lt Cols don't; all Spaatz cadets were once Eaker cadets. But passing the Spaatz within three tries isn't something that happens without preparation, motivation, and general know-how. Getting from C/Maj to C/Lt Col is a matter of a speech and an essay.

In other words, there's less of a difference between a C/Maj and a C/Lt Col than there is between a C/Lt Col and a C/Col, as far as testing requirements go. And getting to C/Maj is not a whole lot more complicated than getting to C/1st Lt.

I'm not trying to make the point that C/Col indicates a markedly different kind of cadet than you find in the rest of the program. I would just argue that Spaatz cadets are generally (but not always) made up of competent former C/Lt Cols; incompetent ones are pretty rarely going to make it to the Spaatz (although they manage to leak through from time to time). I think there are a lot (far too many) good C/Lt Cols that never make it to the Spaatz, for whatever reason, but far fewer bad C/Lt Cols are capable of passing the Spaatz exam on time, within three tries.

Of course, this sounds self-serving, but I do think there's a truth to it. I personally have met two C/Cols that were just awful, but I certainly found a higher percentage of competent Spaatz cadets than competent C/Lt Cols, simply because competent C/Lt Cols have a much higher chance of getting the Spaatz than incompetent C/Lt Cols. In general, I don't think it's wrong to give the award some generalized credit as a means of making initial judgments.

[Ron1319]

I'd like to add that I think that C/Col's are still cadets and still need mentoring and growth.  I don't like the assumption that just because a cadet is a C/Col and isn't immediately awesome that they can't grow into it.  I know a lot of us who wore the diamonds for years who grew a lot during that time.  For me it was the span of most of my college career, and I certainly grew in many ways during that time.

With all of this talk of "passing in three tries," can I suggest that there's no honor in taking the test more than once without getting flamed and crucified?  If anybody would like studying/preparation advice, please feel free to PM me.

[Shawn W.]

I dont have any numbers or statistics for you, what i will tell you is that, while I was not a Spaatz cadet, I did earn my Earheart award and finished my Cadet career as a C/Maj. The experience that I gained off of what I learned since my Mitchell is invaluable and I still put into practice today, things that I learned as a cadet. I am a 15 year member of CAP and I am proud of everything that I have done. And let me tell you that even as a Senior Member, the learning still continues. When I turned over, I was put into the Professional Devlopment Track. That was nealry 9 and a half years ago. I again learned so many things that I never knew, and leaned many different ways of doing things. The point here is this.... YOU GET OUT OF C.A.P., WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT. So I say keep working toward your Spaatz. Do the best that you can do and I bet you will find it rewarding.

Thank you

Shawn Warneke, Capt., CAP.
Professional Devlopment Officer
St Cloud Composite Squadron
Mn Wing, Civil Air Patrol

[SaBeR33]

One of the biggest regrets I have in my CAP cadet career is the fact I only got one shot at the Spaatz Award and didn't earn it before I was forced to switch to Senior Member due to going to USAF BMT.  My motivation was the fact that I wanted to be the best and I wanted to finish what I started.

How very weird since this is the same thing I experienced as well.

As was stated above, the lessons you learn while striving to achieve that goal are important.  In fact, those lessons are more important than the award itself in my opinion.

+1

[James Shaw]

I was recently talking to my parents about my goal was to get the Spaatz award. I was talking about how it will take at least another two years to get it. They brought up the subject on whether it was worth it or not. Their big question is was if it will help me get anywhere in life when I start my career in the military. They also wanted to know, that in the event I didn't do the military and slected a civilian career, if it would actually help me in get anywhere.

Help?

Any type of achievement that you want like the Spaatz has to be one that you solely desire for yourself and the satisfaction of knowing that you set your mind and path to do something and you finished it. I am not a Spaatz cadet and the highest I made it to as a cadet was C/SSGT. Some of the long term benefits are known and shown by some previous posts, they can be great. I would try not to look at it as "what can I get in the future" for the work required. I would look at it and try to decide if the return on the investment of time and energy is worth it. Thatis a decision that only you can make. I personally think it would be worth the time and energy.

I would also like to add the SM professional development Gill Robb Wilson to that level of personal accomplishment that we as SM's have to decide if we want to go for it. We as SM's can go all the way to Lt Col without reaching the GRW and Level V. It has to be a personal choice and we have to determine if we want to do it for oursleves and not necessarily for CAP. It does take a bit more effort and time.

Go for it!!

[noodles]

It is certainly well worth it. It does not have the name recognition outside the CAP world vis a vis "Eagle Scout" but you will be able to say that you completed the cadet program.  That being said the fact you earned the Spaatz should not be the end-all/be-all of your CAP life (or otherwise). I personally do not like Spaatz recipients who carry themselves as if they are better than those around them--this goes for current cadets and those who earned the award years ago.  I make it a habit not to bring it up when talking with cadets or seniors who do not know my background unless they ask (i.e. how far did you go in the cadet program, etc).  I'm not embarrassed but believe that I've done plenty of other things since I was 17. 

[PA Guy]

^^^^^^^^^

:clap:  :clap:

[The Leev]

There is NO failure in reaching for any greater knowledge and experience. A lifelong positive attitude will be the proof of what you can not know as a Cadet.  .... C/Lt. Col.