COS, RCLS and the Eaker

[Tim Medeiros]

I couldn't do this because I am only 14 but already a 2d Lt. and to go to COS you must be 16. (and I will not go to RCLS) and also I agree with the encampment rule made but it takes some people time to go to encampment and Msgt is not that high in ranks so they might get stuck at Tsgt until they make time to go to encampment.

Just curious, why not?  I'm simply curious as to the reasoning, who knows, your comments may make it to someone who can help make RCLS better, at least in SER.

RCLS is usually for cadets who can not make it into COS (especially in SER) and I have to be better than everyone else so my goal is COS. Theres nothing wrong with RCLS I perfer COS though.

I'll break down your comments one by one.

RCLS is usually for cadets who can not make it into COS

In some cases this is true, due to either conflicting schedules or economic issues.  It can also ring true due to the amount of applications received per activity.  COS receives, (guessing here) 400+ applications per year, for a single approximately 100 slot course.  In order to ensure the same leadership material can be received by as many cadets as possible the RCLS program was instituted.  In SER, we have a total of 4583 cadets on the books (as of 2:36pm today), compare that with the (last I checked) 20,000 cadets nationwide and you can easily see the difference in the amount of applications.

I have to be better than everyone else

An admirable goal, but why?  Why do you "have to be" better than anyone else?  Why not aspire to be the best you can be?  When it comes to leadership, the only reason to compare yourself to others would be to add skills and abilities you admire in other leaders to your own "bag of tools" and ensure that skills and behaviors that are unsatisfactory in others are not repeated by yourself.

I would also like to add, when I was a cadet, I had a goal of going to COS myself.  However, I still went to RCLS.  I went when I was just barely 15, I went to COS several years later when I was 19 or 20.  I even applied for ECI-13 while I was at COS.  The reason?  To get as much leadership training under my belt as I could, and also so I could compare the different courses.  What I found, COS and RCLS had pretty much the same material, the main difference was in the delivery.

[DC]

Why do we require an essay and speech for the Armstrong?  Encampment to get the Mitchell?  Because they are beneficial to the cadets development.

COS & RCLS are a requirement for the end of Phase IV.  Phase IV is where cadets are supposed to operate at a strategic level.  How can we expect cadets to operate strategically without some sort of training on how to do it?  In comes RCLS & COS, they are schools that teach our "executive" cadets how to think like "executives." 

The OBC doesn't have anything to do with strategic leadership, so why would we want our cadets to take course about the very basics of CAP?  Didn't you learn that stuff before your Wright Brothers Award?

But should they not  know that by the time the get to Major? I think by the time they get that high in rank, it's not going to make a big bifference in what they know in leadership. Sure they can always learn more. But why make them go to a school to learn how to be a leader, when they should know that by the time they get to that rank anyway?

I think if they make that a requirement, then it should be to become an officer.

No, that's the point. My flight at COS had two C/Majors and one C/Lt Col, all of them experienced cadets that had been in CAP for over five years, staffed encampments, been C/CC of their squadrons, served on CACs, the whole bit. Not one of them seemed to think COS was a waste of time or was not teaching them new material.

The COS/RCLS curriculum goes beyond what a cadet that does not attend those schools will be exposed to, and COS in particular delivers it in a way that cannot be duplicated with books and self-study.

So why should it not be a requirement to expose yourself to that material before completion of the Cadet Program (which the Eaker Award symbolizes)?  Requiring COS/RCLS attendance for the Eaker is pushing back the requirement as far as possible, giving cadets the maximum amount of time possible to complete it.

[Ron1319]

I went to COS in about '96 as a c/LTC and I certainly didn't think it was a waste of time.  I agree with the previous poster that it gives cadets as much time to complete the requirement as possible.  It shows that COS or an officer leadership training is an important part of the cadet program.

I'm disappointed to hear that so many junior officers were in attendance last year.  I would hope that the social aspect of being around senior cadet officers would encourage more of the junior officers to continue to promote and finish the program.  That goal is hard to accomplish if there are few senior cadet officers.

I'd be very interested to hear precisely why the cadets who attended did not feel it was beneficial.  Those of us who went were always proud of having gone, but of course that was something like 14 years ago.

[addo1]

From my understanding, COS has had its ups and downs throughout the years. I am a rather-recent attendee of Cadet Officer School and can testify to its academic soundness. Is everyone satisfied with the program? No - and never will everyone be satisfied with any activity. Was taking up two of my precious summer weeks to go down to Maxwell worth it? You better believe it! The atmosphere and the course curriculum is unmatched within CAP. Any cadets that want to go, accept it as a challenge, and make the standards. It is not an activity to miss!

[Nathan]

I can tell you a good reason why attending an activity outside of pencil-pushing is a requirement.

Once you start hitting Phase IV, your usefulness outside of the squadron increases dramatically. Phase IV cadets generally are the kinds of people who are selected to be high-level encampment staff, sometimes hold positions as assistance at the Wing level, work on CAC, and have a decent chance of staffing some NCSA's. The skills that a Phase IV cadet are developing go beyond squadron level groups. A Phase IV cadet should have the skills to command hundreds of people at a time.

These environments are found almost exclusively outside of the squadron. If you are a Phase IV cadet doing nothing but attending squadron meetings, then you are not developing the skills appropriate to your grade level. This is not to say that you are required or obligated to find work above the squadron level, or that you are somehow outside of the control of the squadron. But if you aren't willing to travel outside of the squadron as much as you can in order to practice your skills, there isn't much point in promoting above C/Capt. You simply won't be doing anything different as a C/Capt than you would as a C/Col if you never leave the squadron.

We can debate the individual merits of COS and RCLS all day, but the point I'm trying to drive in is that the excuse "I don't wanna go" does not represent the mindset that a Phase IV cadet needs in order to succeed. Even if COS was not required, you should still be LOOKING for the opportunity to leave your squadron and explore chances to practice leadership at higher levels.

When I attended COS in 2005, I developed connections literally around the entire country with people who would eventually go on and do some pretty impressive things in the cadet program. Not only was I able to develop leadership skills at the school, but I was able to keep in contact with the people I met and work with them to do other projects within CAP. In addition, when people know that you've stepped outside of the squadron to pursue extra training, it certain speaks to your adaptability, which is an important trait for any leader.

[Cool Mace]

I can tell you a good reason why attending an activity outside of pencil-pushing is a requirement.

Once you start hitting Phase IV, your usefulness outside of the squadron increases dramatically. Phase IV cadets generally are the kinds of people who are selected to be high-level encampment staff, sometimes hold positions as assistance at the Wing level, work on CAC, and have a decent chance of staffing some NCSA's. The skills that a Phase IV cadet are developing go beyond squadron level groups. A Phase IV cadet should have the skills to command hundreds of people at a time.

These environments are found almost exclusively outside of the squadron. If you are a Phase IV cadet doing nothing but attending squadron meetings, then you are not developing the skills appropriate to your grade level. This is not to say that you are required or obligated to find work above the squadron level, or that you are somehow outside of the control of the squadron. But if you aren't willing to travel outside of the squadron as much as you can in order to practice your skills, there isn't much point in promoting above C/Capt. You simply won't be doing anything different as a C/Capt than you would as a C/Col if you never leave the squadron.

We can debate the individual merits of COS and RCLS all day, but the point I'm trying to drive in is that the excuse "I don't wanna go" does not represent the mindset that a Phase IV cadet needs in order to succeed. Even if COS was not required, you should still be LOOKING for the opportunity to leave your squadron and explore chances to practice leadership at higher levels.

When I attended COS in 2005, I developed connections literally around the entire country with people who would eventually go on and do some pretty impressive things in the cadet program. Not only was I able to develop leadership skills at the school, but I was able to keep in contact with the people I met and work with them to do other projects within CAP. In addition, when people know that you've stepped outside of the squadron to pursue extra training, it certain speaks to your adaptability, which is an important trait for any leader.

I'm not saying COS or RCLS are bad schools. I agree that phase IV cadets should be able to learn more and be able to teach what they have learned. But once you're that high in CAP (C/Maj) does having to go to the school worth it for the next grade? again I'm not saying the schools are worthless by any means. Cadets can already hold staff possitions at NCSA and high possitions at Encampments, along with being on NCAC (I was) without having to go to either of them.

Cadets can already meet people outside thier squadron without either of the schools, and learn from them aswell. I have many friends from around the country and the world without going to them. We all have a common goal. To make ourselves, and the people we teach better people.

I'm still lost as to it being a requirement for C/Lt Col. If you're already that high in tha ranks, then those why need a school to make you a better officer?

I also think they need to come out with something for cadets that aren't able to attend them. We used to have the ECI 13, but not we don't have anything like it. Why not make another test that can fulfill the same requirements like it did? Not to say you learn the same things from the ECI 13 as you would at COS or RCLS. But now we just took away an option for cadets to promote. I think CAP should come up with something for these cadets.

[DakRadz]

1) Cadets are eligible for COS (and usually by extension RCLS) as long as they have the Mitchell and are 16.

2) No, we don't have a paper course which is available for the Eaker requirement, but I was actually thinking about this and I think it's a good thing.
While some used ECI13 as a supplement (and given the course it seems it would have been a good supplement, I barely missed the requirements and deadline) to the training they receive, others papered their way through the entire program.
Maybe some who did this were genuine leaders who fell on ECI13 as the back-up because things just didn't work out and they were still great cadets. I can accept that there are exceptions.
I can't help thinking there was a method to NHQ's madness when they took away the cadet paper promotion course.

[jimmydeanno]

I can tell you a good reason why attending an activity outside of pencil-pushing is a requirement.

Once you start hitting Phase IV, your usefulness outside of the squadron increases dramatically. Phase IV cadets generally are the kinds of people who are selected to be high-level encampment staff, sometimes hold positions as assistance at the Wing level, work on CAC, and have a decent chance of staffing some NCSA's. The skills that a Phase IV cadet are developing go beyond squadron level groups. A Phase IV cadet should have the skills to command hundreds of people at a time.

These environments are found almost exclusively outside of the squadron. If you are a Phase IV cadet doing nothing but attending squadron meetings, then you are not developing the skills appropriate to your grade level. This is not to say that you are required or obligated to find work above the squadron level, or that you are somehow outside of the control of the squadron. But if you aren't willing to travel outside of the squadron as much as you can in order to practice your skills, there isn't much point in promoting above C/Capt. You simply won't be doing anything different as a C/Capt than you would as a C/Col if you never leave the squadron.

We can debate the individual merits of COS and RCLS all day, but the point I'm trying to drive in is that the excuse "I don't wanna go" does not represent the mindset that a Phase IV cadet needs in order to succeed. Even if COS was not required, you should still be LOOKING for the opportunity to leave your squadron and explore chances to practice leadership at higher levels.

When I attended COS in 2005, I developed connections literally around the entire country with people who would eventually go on and do some pretty impressive things in the cadet program. Not only was I able to develop leadership skills at the school, but I was able to keep in contact with the people I met and work with them to do other projects within CAP. In addition, when people know that you've stepped outside of the squadron to pursue extra training, it certain speaks to your adaptability, which is an important trait for any leader.

I'm not saying COS or RCLS are bad schools. I agree that phase IV cadets should be able to learn more and be able to teach what they have learned. But once you're that high in CAP (C/Maj) does having to go to the school worth it for the next grade? again I'm not saying the schools are worthless by any means. Cadets can already hold staff possitions at NCSA and high possitions at Encampments, along with being on NCAC (I was) without having to go to either of them.

Cadets can already meet people outside thier squadron without either of the schools, and learn from them aswell. I have many friends from around the country and the world without going to them. We all have a common goal. To make ourselves, and the people we teach better people.

I'm still lost as to it being a requirement for C/Lt Col. If you're already that high in tha ranks, then those why need a school to make you a better officer?

I also think they need to come out with something for cadets that aren't able to attend them. We used to have the ECI 13, but not we don't have anything like it. Why not make another test that can fulfill the same requirements like it did? Not to say you learn the same things from the ECI 13 as you would at COS or RCLS. But now we just took away an option for cadets to promote. I think CAP should come up with something for these cadets.

About 2% of cadets earn the Eaker.

When the ECI-13 was available, there was about 6 cadets per year that took it.  For a total of around 30-40 total during its availability (about 5-7 years) to cadets.

So you want to create a program to service ~8% of the 2% of cadets who get that far?  Why devote the time, effort and resources for a segment of our cadet population that is practically non-existent?

[Cool Mace]

I can tell you a good reason why attending an activity outside of pencil-pushing is a requirement.

Once you start hitting Phase IV, your usefulness outside of the squadron increases dramatically. Phase IV cadets generally are the kinds of people who are selected to be high-level encampment staff, sometimes hold positions as assistance at the Wing level, work on CAC, and have a decent chance of staffing some NCSA's. The skills that a Phase IV cadet are developing go beyond squadron level groups. A Phase IV cadet should have the skills to command hundreds of people at a time.

These environments are found almost exclusively outside of the squadron. If you are a Phase IV cadet doing nothing but attending squadron meetings, then you are not developing the skills appropriate to your grade level. This is not to say that you are required or obligated to find work above the squadron level, or that you are somehow outside of the control of the squadron. But if you aren't willing to travel outside of the squadron as much as you can in order to practice your skills, there isn't much point in promoting above C/Capt. You simply won't be doing anything different as a C/Capt than you would as a C/Col if you never leave the squadron.

We can debate the individual merits of COS and RCLS all day, but the point I'm trying to drive in is that the excuse "I don't wanna go" does not represent the mindset that a Phase IV cadet needs in order to succeed. Even if COS was not required, you should still be LOOKING for the opportunity to leave your squadron and explore chances to practice leadership at higher levels.

When I attended COS in 2005, I developed connections literally around the entire country with people who would eventually go on and do some pretty impressive things in the cadet program. Not only was I able to develop leadership skills at the school, but I was able to keep in contact with the people I met and work with them to do other projects within CAP. In addition, when people know that you've stepped outside of the squadron to pursue extra training, it certain speaks to your adaptability, which is an important trait for any leader.

I'm not saying COS or RCLS are bad schools. I agree that phase IV cadets should be able to learn more and be able to teach what they have learned. But once you're that high in CAP (C/Maj) does having to go to the school worth it for the next grade? again I'm not saying the schools are worthless by any means. Cadets can already hold staff possitions at NCSA and high possitions at Encampments, along with being on NCAC (I was) without having to go to either of them.

Cadets can already meet people outside thier squadron without either of the schools, and learn from them aswell. I have many friends from around the country and the world without going to them. We all have a common goal. To make ourselves, and the people we teach better people.

I'm still lost as to it being a requirement for C/Lt Col. If you're already that high in tha ranks, then those why need a school to make you a better officer?

I also think they need to come out with something for cadets that aren't able to attend them. We used to have the ECI 13, but not we don't have anything like it. Why not make another test that can fulfill the same requirements like it did? Not to say you learn the same things from the ECI 13 as you would at COS or RCLS. But now we just took away an option for cadets to promote. I think CAP should come up with something for these cadets.

About 2% of cadets earn the Eaker.

When the ECI-13 was available, there was about 6 cadets per year that took it.  For a total of around 30-40 total during its availability (about 5-7 years) to cadets.

So you want to create a program to service ~8% of the 2% of cadets who get that far?  Why devote the time, effort and resources for a segment of our cadet population that is practically non-existent?

Because offering something once a year isn't worth it to some, hence why they took the test. If I just got Major and I had to wait a year to go to an activity to promote, I wouldn't be too happy about it. I know a lot of cadets that are coming up in rank aren't happy about it either. What's wrong with giving them a third choice?

[Tim Medeiros]

If I just got Major and I had to wait a year to go to an activity to promote, I wouldn't be too happy about it.

Why wait until you get Major to go to these schools?  Why not be proactive and go when its available to you and you can apply the lessons learned even longer?  ie Mitchell, or earlier in some places.

[DakRadz]

Cadet Major still has levels enough to require 6 more months until the Eaker. So it wouldn't throw the timeframe off that much.

Anyone who wants to hit the Eaker/Spaatz before 21 and is worried about this due to their age needs to be prior planning anyway.

[DC]

If I just got Major and I had to wait a year to go to an activity to promote, I wouldn't be too happy about it.

Why wait until you get Major to go to these schools?  Why not be proactive and go when its available to you and you can apply the lessons learned even longer?  ie Mitchell, or earlier in some places.

+10

I went as a C/1st Lt, and I'd wager that the majority of my peers were also Phase III cadets. Those cadets can now employ what they learned at a much earlier stage in their cadet career than if they had waited until that had to go to satisfy a promotion requirement. And again, the COS curriculum does not teach material that you are likely to come across or learn through experience as a cadet. So saying that a C/Maj is already a good leader and doesn't need more training to become a C/Lt Col doesn't fly.

[Cool Mace]

If I just got Major and I had to wait a year to go to an activity to promote, I wouldn't be too happy about it.

Why wait until you get Major to go to these schools?  Why not be proactive and go when its available to you and you can apply the lessons learned even longer?  ie Mitchell, or earlier in some places.

And again, the COS curriculum does not teach material that you are likely to come across or learn through experience as a cadet.

Case and point...

If cadets aren't likely to come across that kind of leadership through out the cadet program already, then why is it a requirement to go to the school to promote?

All I've seen so far are white-wash answers from people saying "that's how it's always been" kind of thing.

Sure, cadets can go to the school before Major, but what about cadets that go even once they get to Captain? Should they not already know how to be great leaders by then? If not, then they shouldn't have been promoted in the first place...

[DakRadz]

And yet- Generals and SNCOs have school requirements too.

Because an E-8 is always a horrible leader until he goes to those schools.

[Cool Mace]

And yet- Generals and SNCOs have school requirements too.

Because an E-8 is always a horrible leader until he goes to those schools.

If that E-8 is such a horrible leader, then why is he an E-8?

[Ron1319]

again I'm not saying the schools are worthless by any means.

Original post - I think RCLS and COS are over rated. I think it's something that was a good idea at some point long ago, but it doesn't apply anymore.

Careful with the doublespeak.

[Cool Mace]

again I'm not saying the schools are worthless by any means.

Original post - I think RCLS and COS are over rated. I think it's something that was a good idea at some point long ago, but it doesn't apply anymore.

Careful with the doublespeak.

I didn't mean it like that... I meant it as far as promotions go. Sorry for the lack of translation there.

[IceNine]

I think you are marginalizing the importance of reinforcement and expansion of skills.  It's much more difficult to learn the intricacies of a skill when you can't relate.  Making a few mistakes and wanting to do it better will help you remember and apply you're new skills.

I would suggest that maybe C/Capt would be more appropriate, but then I believe Wright Bros. is more appropriate for basic encampment.

[DakRadz]

And yet- Generals and SNCOs have school requirements too.

Because an E-8 is always a horrible leader until he goes to those schools.

If that E-8 is such a horrible leader, then why is he an E-8?

Okay, that was sarcasm, which I shouldn't do but sometimes it overcomes me. I was saying that every E-8 in every service is a horrible leader until they go to SNCO schools, so I thought it would clear I wasn't serious- but it's late and I'm tired. (Due to the lack of sleep, I said E-8- however, SNCO Academy/equivalent must be completed to be an E-8, so the above statements should read E-7. Just sayin'. My mistake.)

I'm saying that at all levels, even in the Armed Forces, high-level leaders go to trainings.
The President- I'm willing to bet that even someone like Ford, who was Congress to VP to POTUS, still went through a lot of conditioning, teaching, and training from the BTDT staff on how to be the Top Dog, even though he'd been in lots of positions close to the other Top Dogs and watched them and learned.

[Ron1319]

I didn't mean it like that... I meant it as far as promotions go. Sorry for the lack of translation there.

Just note that I'm sure I wasn't the only one who interpreted the original post as intending to say that COS was overrated and no longer a good idea.