COS, RCLS and the Eaker

[Cool Mace]

I've been talking with many cadets and Sr. members about needing RCLS or COS for the Eaker award. Everyone I have talked to doesn't see why you need that to gain rank. The point of RCLS and COS is to make you a better officer, yes? Then why not need that to become 2lt instead? If someone has already been through all the officer ranks up to Major then do you not think they're ready to move up again? I think RCLS and COS are over rated. I think it's something that was a good idea at some point long ago, but it doesn't apply anymore. I think if they want to make one of those schools a requiement, then make it for 2Lt, and not Encampment. Encampment is for basic knowledge, so maybe make it to where you need that for MSgt?(Just a thought on that). Say a cadet can go to one activity a year. Be it Encampment, NBB, HMRS, NESA, or whatever the case may be. Why would they want to join an after school activity to HAVE to go to another school just to promote? I don't think that's fair to cadets. I've heard people talk about the ups and downs of both RCLS and COS. So I have no interest in going to either one of them. I don't want to spend a week "off" doing more school.

Thoughts?

[jimmydeanno]

RCLS/COS being a requirement to earn the Eaker doesn't mean that you should take them when you are a C/Maj.  The majority of COS students this year (where I was a seminar advisor), had not earned the Earhart yet.  This year was also the first year they started a "Falcon Flight" which was intended for prior COS graduates and focused on even more strategic thinking, etc.

COS & RCLS are not outdated schools that serve no purpose.  Perhaps the RCLS you went to wasn't good, but the intent is that they provide a school to teach strategic leadership.  Local units and even wings don't have the resources to put together a curriculum or instructors that Cadet Officer School does.  So, if you want to learn about strategic leadership, go to COS.

I can't say that COS has ever had a problem filling their student roster.  If you don't want to go, then don't.  Education is an important aspect of leadership.  If you don't continue to expand your education, chances are, you aren't going to become the leader you could be.

[Cool Mace]

Sorry, I didn't mean for that to sound like the doesn't have a purpose if that's how it came across. I just don't see why you have to have one of them for your Eaker award. in order to go to COS you already have to be an officer (duh!), but from what friends and people I know that have gone there said they didn't really feel like it was something to brag about when it came to being a better cadet officer (their words not mine).

I think there should be another option out there for cadets like the ECI 13 was. Cadets can take the OBC, and that took the place of the ECI 13. If it fulfills it for SrM. then why not cadets also?

By having to go to a school, cadets can break regs by not being able to promote twice a year. This happened to someone I know. He's still trying to figure out how he can promote ASAP. He has many leadership schools through JROTC and enough encampment staff possitions under his belt. You would think that by having done all of that he would be ok for the Eaker by now?

[DakRadz]

By having to go to a school, cadets can break regs by not being able to promote twice a year. This happened to someone I know. He's still trying to figure out how he can promote ASAP. He has many leadership schools through JROTC and enough encampment staff possitions under his belt. You would think that by having done all of that he would be ok for the Eaker by now?

I've never seen a JROTC school that looked as appealing as COS. I want to do COS very much just because of what I've been told about it and the experience it is.

JROTC schools are still mostly Basic/OCS type deals with DIs or DSs- COS, from what I've been told, requires you to manage your time on your own and be responsible for your schedule in an academic and leadership environment.

[Ned]

As part of our outreach to other "cadet-type" organizations, we actually invited a dozen AFJROTC cadets to participate in COS this year, and by all accounts it was successful.

In return, some CAP cadets were permitted to go to one of the JROTC "Honor Camps."

Our conclusions so far is that JROTC schools are not as academically focussed as COS.

(But then most CAP schools are not as academically focussed as COS, either.)

Also, I just met with the leaders of AFROTC and JROTC at Maxwell last week, and they are concerned because a lot of their summer training activities are being cancelled because of budgeting shortfalls.

So I expect we will be working together more in the future.

[ZigZag911]

RCLS is about to be opened to C/CMSGTs precisely to address this..to give them officer type training before getting promoted to C/2Lt.

[DC]

I've been talking with many cadets and Sr. members about needing RCLS or COS for the Eaker award. Everyone I have talked to doesn't see why you need that to gain rank. The point of RCLS and COS is to make you a better officer, yes? Then why not need that to become 2lt instead? If someone has already been through all the officer ranks up to Major then do you not think they're ready to move up again? I think RCLS and COS are over rated. I think it's something that was a good idea at some point long ago, but it doesn't apply anymore. I think if they want to make one of those schools a requiement, then make it for 2Lt, and not Encampment. Encampment is for basic knowledge, so maybe make it to where you need that for MSgt?(Just a thought on that). Say a cadet can go to one activity a year. Be it Encampment, NBB, HMRS, NESA, or whatever the case may be. Why would they want to join an after school activity to HAVE to go to another school just to promote? I don't think that's fair to cadets. I've heard people talk about the ups and downs of both RCLS and COS. So I have no interest in going to either one of them. I don't want to spend a week "off" doing more school.

Thoughts?

You are missing the point of the activity. RCLS and COS do not exist to teach Cadet Officers how to be officers.  Much like Encampment is not intended to be a 'basic training' for new cadets, despite the way it is treated by some. Instead, COS and RCLS serve to polish and build upon existing skills, and teach material that is beyond the scope of what is presented in the leadership texts.

I'd also hazard to guess that your peers that did not feel like COS was worth it missed the point as well, or did not put in the work that they ought to have. Like many things in CAP, you get out of it what you put into it, just showing up and going to the lectures isn't enough.

[Cool Mace]

I've been talking with many cadets and Sr. members about needing RCLS or COS for the Eaker award. Everyone I have talked to doesn't see why you need that to gain rank. The point of RCLS and COS is to make you a better officer, yes? Then why not need that to become 2lt instead? If someone has already been through all the officer ranks up to Major then do you not think they're ready to move up again? I think RCLS and COS are over rated. I think it's something that was a good idea at some point long ago, but it doesn't apply anymore. I think if they want to make one of those schools a requiement, then make it for 2Lt, and not Encampment. Encampment is for basic knowledge, so maybe make it to where you need that for MSgt?(Just a thought on that). Say a cadet can go to one activity a year. Be it Encampment, NBB, HMRS, NESA, or whatever the case may be. Why would they want to join an after school activity to HAVE to go to another school just to promote? I don't think that's fair to cadets. I've heard people talk about the ups and downs of both RCLS and COS. So I have no interest in going to either one of them. I don't want to spend a week "off" doing more school.

Thoughts?

You are missing the point of the activity. RCLS and COS do not exist to teach Cadet Officers how to be officers.  Much like Encampment is not intended to be a 'basic training' for new cadets, despite the way it is treated by some. Instead, COS and RCLS serve to polish and build upon existing skills, and teach material that is beyond the scope of what is presented in the leadership texts.

I'd also hazard to guess that your peers that did not feel like COS was worth it missed the point as well, or did not put in the work that they ought to have. Like many things in CAP, you get out of it what you put into it, just showing up and going to the lectures isn't enough.

Then why have to have it for their Eaker? That's my whole point here.

I'm not saying that they are bad schools our anything like that. I just don't see why they need to be a requirement for it.

[JArvey]

I've been talking with many cadets and Sr. members about needing RCLS or COS for the Eaker award. Everyone I have talked to doesn't see why you need that to gain rank. The point of RCLS and COS is to make you a better officer, yes? Then why not need that to become 2lt instead? If someone has already been through all the officer ranks up to Major then do you not think they're ready to move up again? I think RCLS and COS are over rated. I think it's something that was a good idea at some point long ago, but it doesn't apply anymore. I think if they want to make one of those schools a requiement, then make it for 2Lt, and not Encampment. Encampment is for basic knowledge, so maybe make it to where you need that for MSgt?(Just a thought on that). Say a cadet can go to one activity a year. Be it Encampment, NBB, HMRS, NESA, or whatever the case may be. Why would they want to join an after school activity to HAVE to go to another school just to promote? I don't think that's fair to cadets. I've heard people talk about the ups and downs of both RCLS and COS. So I have no interest in going to either one of them. I don't want to spend a week "off" doing more school.

Thoughts?

I couldn't do this because I am only 14 but already a 2d Lt. and to go to COS you must be 16. (and I will not go to RCLS) and also I agree with the encampment rule made but it takes some people time to go to encampment and Msgt is not that high in ranks so they might get stuck at Tsgt until they make time to go to encampment.

[Tim Medeiros]

I couldn't do this because I am only 14 but already a 2d Lt. and to go to COS you must be 16. (and I will not go to RCLS) and also I agree with the encampment rule made but it takes some people time to go to encampment and Msgt is not that high in ranks so they might get stuck at Tsgt until they make time to go to encampment.

Just curious, why not?  I'm simply curious as to the reasoning, who knows, your comments may make it to someone who can help make RCLS better, at least in SER.

[jimmydeanno]

Why do we require an essay and speech for the Armstrong?  Encampment to get the Mitchell?  Because they are beneficial to the cadets development.

COS & RCLS are a requirement for the end of Phase IV.  Phase IV is where cadets are supposed to operate at a strategic level.  How can we expect cadets to operate strategically without some sort of training on how to do it?  In comes RCLS & COS, they are schools that teach our "executive" cadets how to think like "executives." 

The OBC doesn't have anything to do with strategic leadership, so why would we want our cadets to take course about the very basics of CAP?  Didn't you learn that stuff before your Wright Brothers Award?

[REDahms]

The OBC doesn't have anything to do with strategic leadership, so why would we want our cadets to take course about the very basics of CAP?  Didn't you learn that stuff before your Wright Brothers Award?

Very ture and a strange question, what all is in the OBC?

[IceNine]

http://www.capmembers.com/cap_university/officer_basic_course.cfm

Although I would suggest that you not hijack this thread...

[Cool Mace]

Why do we require an essay and speech for the Armstrong?  Encampment to get the Mitchell?  Because they are beneficial to the cadets development.

COS & RCLS are a requirement for the end of Phase IV.  Phase IV is where cadets are supposed to operate at a strategic level.  How can we expect cadets to operate strategically without some sort of training on how to do it?  In comes RCLS & COS, they are schools that teach our "executive" cadets how to think like "executives." 

The OBC doesn't have anything to do with strategic leadership, so why would we want our cadets to take course about the very basics of CAP?  Didn't you learn that stuff before your Wright Brothers Award?

But should they not  know that by the time the get to Major? I think by the time they get that high in rank, it's not going to make a big bifference in what they know in leadership. Sure they can always learn more. But why make them go to a school to learn how to be a leader, when they should know that by the time they get to that rank anyway?

I think if they make that a requirement, then it should be to become an officer.

[DakRadz]

Why do we require an essay and speech for the Armstrong?  Encampment to get the Mitchell?  Because they are beneficial to the cadets development.

COS & RCLS are a requirement for the end of Phase IV.  Phase IV is where cadets are supposed to operate at a strategic level.  How can we expect cadets to operate strategically without some sort of training on how to do it?  In comes RCLS & COS, they are schools that teach our "executive" cadets how to think like "executives." 

The OBC doesn't have anything to do with strategic leadership, so why would we want our cadets to take course about the very basics of CAP?  Didn't you learn that stuff before your Wright Brothers Award?

But should they not  know that by the time the get to Major? I think by the time they get that high in rank, it's not going to make a big bifference in what they know in leadership. Sure they can always learn more. But why make them go to a school to learn how to be a leader, when they should know that by the time they get to that rank anyway?

I think if they make that a requirement, then it should be to become an officer.

New Second Lieutenants and Ensigns are expected to be leaders when they are commissioned. But they aren't fed everything at once as far as schools and training.
The Army has the Captain's Career Course, other services have their own advanced trainings- it's progressive. The more experience, age, and wisdom you accumulate, the more training you get to put that to good use.

I don't think anyone is saying that COS/RCLS teaches cadets how to be leaders (though I may be following the thread wrong)- more like it builds on prior leadership skills.

You don't send the manager at JoeBlow's Fish Shack Franchise #3 to Harvard for an MBA; you do send the HQ junior corporate exec who needs a little more knowledge to properly be a great company manager/CEO/etc.

[JArvey]

I couldn't do this because I am only 14 but already a 2d Lt. and to go to COS you must be 16. (and I will not go to RCLS) and also I agree with the encampment rule made but it takes some people time to go to encampment and Msgt is not that high in ranks so they might get stuck at Tsgt until they make time to go to encampment.

Just curious, why not?  I'm simply curious as to the reasoning, who knows, your comments may make it to someone who can help make RCLS better, at least in SER.

RCLS is usually for cadets who can not make it into COS (especially in SER) and I have to be better than everyone else so my goal is COS. Theres nothing wrong with RCLS I perfer COS though.

[DakRadz]

I couldn't do this because I am only 14 but already a 2d Lt. and to go to COS you must be 16. (and I will not go to RCLS) and also I agree with the encampment rule made but it takes some people time to go to encampment and Msgt is not that high in ranks so they might get stuck at Tsgt until they make time to go to encampment.

Just curious, why not?  I'm simply curious as to the reasoning, who knows, your comments may make it to someone who can help make RCLS better, at least in SER.

RCLS is usually for cadets who can not make it into COS (especially in SER) and I have to be better than everyone else so my goal is COS. Theres nothing wrong with RCLS I perfer COS though.

I wanted really badly to go to the Air Force Academy. I also had an AFROTC app just in case. Why? Because back-up plans are key to achieving your goals. (I also had USNA, NROTC, USCGA apps as well... Be Prepared!)

COS is a great goal, but you should also apply for RCLS just in case.

[spaatzmom]

I couldn't do this because I am only 14 but already a 2d Lt. and to go to COS you must be 16. (and I will not go to RCLS) and also I agree with the encampment rule made but it takes some people time to go to encampment and Msgt is not that high in ranks so they might get stuck at Tsgt until they make time to go to encampment.

Just curious, why not?  I'm simply curious as to the reasoning, who knows, your comments may make it to someone who can help make RCLS better, at least in SER.

RCLS is usually for cadets who can not make it into COS (especially in SER) and I have to be better than everyone else so my goal is COS. Theres nothing wrong with RCLS I perfer COS though.

Wow!  Let's not denigrate RCLS based on one opinion especially when that person has not attended that particular school.  They are similar programs run by entirely different people.  Even the selection process has absolutely NOTHING to do with the other.  Yes COS is more selective,  but only because of the shear volume of application from the entire country and RCLS is a region program drawing from far fewer candidates, but that is where the process separates.   Why not attend both and be doubly blessed with the knowledge gained from again different programs?  My son attended both and did the ECI-13 and he was better off for it.  They all taught different things in different manners that helped him on his way to the Spaatz and oh yes we are from Florida.....SER

[RobertAmphibian]

RCLS is usually for cadets who can not make it into COS (especially in SER) and I have to be better than everyone else so my goal is COS. Theres nothing wrong with RCLS I perfer COS though.

If you really want to be better than everyone else (not really a reasonable goal when it comes to leadership anyway), attend every activity you can! Even if RCLS isn't as prestigious as COS, you'll still learn a lot. Nothing is stopping you from doing both.

[PA Guy]

..RCLS is usually for cadets who can not make it into COS (especially in SER) and I have to be better than everyone else so my goal is COS. Theres nothing wrong with RCLS I perfer COS though.

Wow! You need to get out more.

Many of the cadets who attend COS have already attended a RCLS.  RCLS is not some kind of second rate also ran program  for people who "weren't good enough" to make it into COS.  Whoever told you that doesn't get out much either.

What region you belong to has zip, zero, nada to do with getting selected for COS.

So what does this all mean?  Go to COS if you get the chance! Go to RCLS if you get the chance! Go to both if you get the chance!
Don't limit yourself as a result of poor information.