Cadets entering AF BMT

[caphornbuckle]

It's been a while since I went in the Air Force and through Basic Military Training.  I am curious to know how well CAP has prepared cadets recently.  During my stay at Lackland in 1995, I felt like CAP prepared me fairly well, although this was also the time when there were changes to the NCO grades and the Velcro Namebadge was in debate (I also learned that Element Leaders march in the front of the formation, something I rarely see done in CAP).

I also recall us having to do aircraft identification during our final exam.  Does the current Aerospace Education program have this in the books still?

[jimmydeanno]

I can't help but feel, from reading your post, that it seems like you think the cadet program's purpose is to prepare cadets for AF BMT. 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

the purpose of Cadet Programs isn't to prepare cadets to join the military. Although if conducted in a certain way it would. The purpose of the cadet program is to provide the cadets with independence, knowledge, leadership skills, and a drug and alcohol influenced free environment to learn it all and learn even more.

It is in a military structure however, that being said, it does help prepare cadets to join the military. If it didn't then the military wouldn't give promotions based on it. The cadet program definitely helped prepare me for the military. It instilled in me a sense of independence, reliance on my teammates and military customs and courtesies. Granted Encampment did not prepare me at all for Infantry school. Encampment was too simple and too relaxed. I got all of my good solid training from my unit.

[NCRblues]

When i went through basic at lackland, you wanted to keep your CAP service hidden. The TI's were always on the prowl for and i quote my instructor from memory, "those wanna be @&^%$#@% who think they know everything already". Once they knew you had served in CAP they would make an example out of you, you were out of step? it was CAPs fault because we didn't know how to march, your bed wasn't perfect? once again CAPs fault because its "pretending to play military".

The vast majority of things i learned in cap went out the door the second the buss pulled up to lackland AFB. We are a great tool for young adults to learn a little bit of respect and discipline and to sort of teach attention to detail by uniforms and encampments ext. but prepair you for basic? Nope, no way....

Those of us that were cap cadets tried to keep it hidden (at least during basic). Cap more helped me at my tech schools than anything else. In the AF, during tech schools, one (or more depending on the amount of people doing the school at the time) would be chosen to become student leaders, called ropes. Having been a cadet officer and commanded encampments and dealt with the the infighting amongst the troops and the homesickness, it was a pretty easy transition from "cadet commander" to "airman in charge". Cap helped a lot on the basic leadership foundations.

[Hawk200]

If it didn't then the military wouldn't give promotions based on it.

Don't know about the other branches, but I do know that the AF gives stripes for college credit. It wouldn't be the only way to get advanced enlisted rank.

I think it's a case of an individual having some type of background showing a development of self discipline. It may not be that in so many words, but I think that's the principle behind it.

[capchiro]

Our last cadet to go through Basic was a C/2Lt. prior to enlisting.  Her CAP training led her to sneak cookies out of the mess hall and back to the barracks..  Well, it wasn't appreciated by those in charge..  I am pretty sure that she learned that at CAP encampment.  Halfway through her training, during formation, she was awarded her high school diploma from the CO.  She had graduated in December and was in Basic in May when they were awarded so the school sent her diploma to Basic.  Everybody was going, "What's going on, I thought you had to be a high school graduate to enlist..  Then, the big surprise, at Graduation, she was the only Airman, awarded E-3, because of her Mitchell.  Again, the other Airmen were going, "What is going on here??"  She wasn't even a high school graduate and she is an E-3??   Anyhow, she is doing great, she thinks CAP helped her immensely and she has done 3 tours in the sandbox with the Security Forces..  Also, most of my cadets join CAP because they want to go into the military..       

[lordmonar]

If it didn't then the military wouldn't give promotions based on it.

Don't know about the other branches, but I do know that the AF gives stripes for college credit. It wouldn't be the only way to get advanced enlisted rank.

I think it's a case of an individual having some type of background showing a development of self discipline. It may not be that in so many words, but I think that's the principle behind it.

The USAF also give stripes for signing up for six years instead of 4......so be careful about what sort of brush you paint with.

On a side note.....there is almost no difference between and AB and A1C at their first duty station as far as their leadership and responsibilities are concerned. (nothing funnier then two airman arguing about time in grade!).

IMHO experince CAP does give our cadets some tools that will be of use to them in their USAF careers....but not really in basic.  They will know how to march and respond correctly.....but the TI's are not really looking for leaders at BMT.   When they go to tech school their CAP skills may be more valuable.....and once they start moving up in rank they will start to apply the lessons they learned at as a cadet.

But overall.....I don't think CAP is or should be preparing cadets to go the BMTS.

[raivo]

I went through OTS, not BOT, but the only real advantage CAP gave me was already knowing how to march and knowing the AF rank structure.

So, no, functionally I was pretty much on the same level as all the other non-priors.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

You all know that it's not just the AF that gives promotion based on the Mitchell, the Army Navy and Marines do as well. It is the fact that those who have gone through the cadet program know and understand how and why the rank structure works, marching, customs and courtesies, leadership fundamentals, and self discipline. It also is because they know it will take less to train that person.

I went through Infantry school once the first eight weeks were over and we started the more advanced stuff, our "Basic Training" was "over" we wore our patches and everything we were supposed to and we had promotion ceremonies. I was the only one to get my PFC E-3 Because of CAP and the Pre Basic Training Task List. Once My DS knew what I was being promoted to and why he asked why I hadn't said anything, I told him I was suggested not to. He told me that was all $&#%$&# up, If he knew he would have had me helping other trainees study their stuff at night instead of cleaning the latrines. He was actually pretty peeved that I hadn't told him. More military NCOs know and appreciate what CAP can, not always does, do to prepare for the military.

[Eclipse]

The Air Force and Army confer advanced grade specifically based on regulation relted to CAP and the Mitchell.  The Navy may give advanced
grade based on a "cadet program" or "leadership experience", etc., but not in the same way as the USAF and USA.

The Marines do not.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Well then that changed since I was 17. I had a Marine Recruiter trying to get me with E2 because of my Mitchell.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I just got off the phone with the local Marines recruiter. Yes, they do promote with the Mitchell award.

[Eclipse]

I just got off the phone with the local Marines recruiter. Yes, they do promote with the Mitchell award.

If they do it is based, like the Navy, on "general experience", etc.  There is no official allowance for it by name or reg.
The recruiters I have asked about this indicated that they don't like to give advanced grade to anyone.

[FlyTiger77]

But overall.....I don't think CAP is or should be preparing cadets to go the BMTS.

+1 (emphasis mine)

[DakRadz]

I just got off the phone with the local Marines recruiter. Yes, they do promote with the Mitchell award.

If they do it is based, like the Navy, on "general experience", etc.  There is no official allowance for it by name or reg.
The recruiters I have asked about this indicated that they don't like to give advanced grade to anyone.

Army, Navy, and Air Force all give E-3 for 3 years JROTC with approval from the cadet's commander. The Marine Corps only allows a maximum of E-2 advanced rank.
Air Force gives E-3 for the Mitchell- you might be able to convince the other services to do so, but USAF is the only one set in stone.

Even CAP's site says Air Force, and not any other service.
http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/html/teensFAQ.htm

I only mention JROTC to clarify how many people might believe that the Mitchell rated such grade. Same sort of deal as the "one SM one cadet is against regs" myth (Cross-thread bonus points!).

[FlyTiger77]

...deal as the "one SM one cadet is against regs" myth (Cross-thread bonus points!).

You lose points for bragging, though, so it is a net loss!

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Same sort of deal as the "one SM one cadet is against regs" myth (Cross-thread bonus points!).

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. What are you referring to?

[FlyTiger77]

Same sort of deal as the "one SM one cadet is against regs" myth (Cross-thread bonus points!).

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. What are you referring to?

He is referring to another thread that discusses the misperception that a single senior member can not be alone with a cadet due to Cadet Protection Policy. He was able trying to tie this thread in with that thread, which was actually quite well executed.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Same sort of deal as the "one SM one cadet is against regs" myth (Cross-thread bonus points!).

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. What are you referring to?

He is referring to another thread that discusses the misperception that a single senior member can not be alone with a cadet due to Cadet Protection Policy. He was able tie this thread in with that thread, which was actually quite well executed.

Ok, well, this one isn't a myth though.

[DakRadz]

Yes sir, it is.

There is no official agreement that allows a cadet with the Mitchell to enter the Army, Navy, or Marine Corps at advanced rank/rate.

There is an agreement with the Air Force for Mitchell cadets to enlist as E-3.

I have absolutely no doubt that a good Mitchell cadet would be recommended/guaranteed E-3 or E-2 if they impressed their USA/USN/USMC recruiter and showed their maturity; however comma there is not an official requirement that the recruiter do so.

If anyone can find a regulation to prove me wrong, I am open to learn.