BDUs at school

[JoeTomasone]

I agree with the seniment of the publication, but at it is a publication, it has no regulatory power. In order for it to do so, it would have to say:  "Compliance with this publication is Mandatory."  Or words to that effect.

For the school situation, with the popper authorization, I really don't have that big a problem with it.

Well, playing Devil's Advocate here, what *is* the proper authorization IAW 39-1 (which IS mandatory)?

I don't see where school is a "normal CAP function" or part of the Cadet Program (unless, of course, it's a school squadron).    Those are the two main times that you CAN wear a uniform normally; the less normal circumstances (military facility, flying in CAP aircraft, etc) do not appear to apply either.

(For those who need a reference, CAPM 39-1, Table 1-1, pp. 6)

[JoeTomasone]

I have actually seen cutouts stapled onto a uniform! lol  Or my favorite is glued.

I've seen stapled nametapes...  I don't know what I'd do if I saw stapled cutouts.

This is why I am I firm proponent of a structured indoctrination phase for cadets and seniors.  Many squadrons have implemented their own programs and are great.  But as an organization as a whole I believe we are seriously lacking on this issue.

AMEN.   I'm an unashamed stickler for proper uniform wear; I find that most of our Seniors are poor role models for the Cadets they are purporting to be leading.   From my perspective, if you can't be bothered to read 39-1 and wear the uniform when appropriate and correctly, then what other compromises will you make in CAP?    Do you bring that attitude to the aircraft or a ground team?    In many things we do, attention to detail is very important, and I firmly believe that it is something that should be observed in every aspect of CAP.   

If it was, we wouldn't have nearly as many threads on CAPTALK, however.

[winterg]

I don't see where school is a "normal CAP function" or part of the Cadet Program (unless, of course, it's a school squadron).    Those are the two main times that you CAN wear a uniform normally; the less normal circumstances (military facility, flying in CAP aircraft, etc) do not appear to apply either.

Recruiting is a part of CAP.  We wear uniforms while recruiting.  ergo, cadets wearing uniforms to school, properly, for the purpose of visibility and recruiting, should not be a violation.  Others may disagree.

[Major Carrales]

Normal CAP function?  And what exactally would that constitute?

There has never been and never will be a "homogeneous" CAP.  There are vast differences in circumstance from just Unit to Unit much less across regional lines.  Some units "have it all" and some go without.  The nature of things i s "local" control.

I can bet that those of you calling for all sorts of regluations and policies don't plan to fund any of them.   CAP and JROTC/ROTC programs differ most in that those other programs are "funded."  They don't want for uniforms or have to scrounge around for a place to meet.  They have money to tailor and sew on patches, they have money for ribbons...we, on the other hand, have none of that.

Many units are barely making it to get their cadet uniformed.  And I suppsoe there are some of you out their that think its the parent's duty to pay for the ad infinitum uniform policies that people champion as their own personal pet agenda, but the truth is that there are two types of young adults that need CAP...these are the rich and the POOR.

By the way, every function we do is a Civilian one.  Also, each unit develops its own notion of "normal CAP function."

[Gunner C]

Also, just because a cadet is new doesn't mean they are some sort of "imbecile."

:clap:

[Daniel]

Ok look here..

I may not be in the national database which is why i wore my bdu's my commander asked me to wear my uniform to school.. I reminded him i didnt have a name plate and asked if BDUs are fine. He said since it was BDU night anyways I could. I used the inhertitated nametape from my grandpas old CAP BDUs.

and no im not an imbecile. I am working to create a forum software when im not at school. geez.

[Gunner C]

Ok look here..

I may not be in the national database which is why i wore my bdu's my commander asked me to wear my uniform to school.. I reminded him i didnt have a name plate and asked if BDUs are fine. He said since it was BDU night anyways I could. I used the inhertitated nametape from my grandpas old CAP BDUs.

Don't worry about it, Daniel.  You did fine. Welcome to CAP.  Most of us are pretty nice - don't let the barracudas get to you! 

Gunner

[Daniel]

to be honest.. I dont know why im still here.
I came here to learn about CAP.. as i was the one member of my squad that studied the book all week long and couldnt stop staring at the uniform in glee. I know now that the only way im going to keep that feeling is to leave this forum..

[Major Carrales]

Your grandfather's nametapes..eh?  Kudos to your grandfather.  My uncle once bought me a set of service caps, I took it on the chin for wearing one.

In fact, I think I'm goingto give my company grade service cap to a cadet from our unit that is soon to Mitchell.  I will give my field grade on to my daughters.

However, such honors paid to our ancestors are merely tossed aside by some of us here.

[Major Carrales]

to be honest.. I dont know why im still here.
I came here to learn about CAP.. as i was the one member of my squad that studied the book all week long and couldnt stop staring at the uniform in glee. I know now that the only way im going to keep that feeling is to leave this forum..

Don't be discouraged. 

Good job...CAPTALKERS, I wonder how many more people get driven off from CAP because some of you have to "go there."

It's a PAO and Recruiter's nigthmare here sometimes.  And I've said that and such sentiments before.

[Gunner C]

Wow!  Your grandfather was in CAP?  That's too cool.  Do you know much about his service?  It's an incredible honor to be able to follow in your ancestor's footsteps.  Keep it up, you'll do fine.

Gunner

[Daniel]

He was in the california wing

safety officer..

thats about all i know other then his military service helped him get a bigger rank then my commander whom is a captian

[JoeTomasone]

Recruiting is a part of CAP.  We wear uniforms while recruiting.  ergo, cadets wearing uniforms to school, properly, for the purpose of visibility and recruiting, should not be a violation.  Others may disagree.

By that logic:

Flying is a part of CAP.   We wear uniforms while flying.  Ergo, wearing uniforms on commercial airlines, for the purpose of flying, should not be a violation.

Search and Rescue is a part of CAP.  We wear uniforms while performing Search and Rescue.  Ergo, members wearing uniforms while searching the neighborhood for their teenager who didn't make it home by curfew, for the purpose of searching for him/her, should not be a violation.

I could go on, but I think the absurd point has been made.   39-1 says when you can and cannot wear the uniform, and to me, it's pretty unambiguous. And quite frankly, I'm surprised that anyone would have trouble defining a "normal CAP activity".  


Daniel, if your Commander said to wear it, then you did nothing wrong.   The point that many are trying to make here is that your Commander probably shouldn't have told you to do so. 

Read and understand the regs -- CAPTALK should only be used as a resource to learn what regs to read. 

[Major Carrales]

By that logic:

Flying is a part of CAP.   We wear uniforms while flying.  Ergo, wearing uniforms on commercial airlines, for the purpose of flying, should not be a violation.

Read and understand the regs -- CAPTALK should only be used as a resource to learn what regs to read. 

Sound advice for you as well my friend.  CAPM 39-1 Tabel 1-1 page 6

may wear service dress uniform or light blue, short or long sleeve shirt/blouse with tie/tab and the all-weather coat, overcoat, and raincoat when traveling by commercial means (other than to and from local CAP activities) (see note 2).

note 2...

2. Unit commanders can make exceptions for travel in small commuter aircraft that involve short
flights in areas of the country where civilians wear informal clothing because of weather or cramped
conditions on the commuter aircraft.

[MIKE]

I may not be in the national database which is why i wore my bdu's my commander asked me to wear my uniform to school.. I reminded him i didnt have a name plate and asked if BDUs are fine. He said since it was BDU night anyways I could. I used the inhertitated nametape from my grandpas old CAP BDUs.

Way to make a federal case out of it. [/peanut gallery]

This thread is just another example of why we don't have an active cadet population here... Even if someones overeagerness results in an open mouth insert foot situation, and they get jumped on.

Now back to thread over-watch.

[JoeTomasone]

Read and understand the regs -- CAPTALK should only be used as a resource to learn what regs to read. 

Sound advice for you as well my friend.  CAPM 39-1 Tabel 1-1 page 6

may wear service dress uniform or light blue, short or long sleeve shirt/blouse with tie/tab and the all-weather coat, overcoat, and raincoat when traveling by commercial means (other than to and from local CAP activities) (see note 2).

I know about that one; but admittedly I was thinking about BDUs at the time.   Mea maxima culpa.   The point was that I could take anything we do in CAP and justify uniform wear based on the logic presented.

[Major Carrales]

Read and understand the regs -- CAPTALK should only be used as a resource to learn what regs to read. 

Sound advice for you as well my friend.  CAPM 39-1 Tabel 1-1 page 6

may wear service dress uniform or light blue, short or long sleeve shirt/blouse with tie/tab and the all-weather coat, overcoat, and raincoat when traveling by commercial means (other than to and from local CAP activities) (see note 2).

I know about that one; but admittedly I was thinking about BDUs at the time.   Mea maxima culpa.   The point was that I could take anything we do in CAP and justify uniform wear based on the logic presented.

No problem, you are correct about uniform wear.  However, it is left in the hands of local commanders.  In reality there are clear restrictions spelled out, but latitude given for other situations.

I flew to Atlanta in 2007 for the PAO academy and National Board, I wore blues as Kach can testify.  All other uniformed service people were in ACUs and ABUs.

[Hawk200]

I may not be in the national database which is why i wore my bdu's my commander asked me to wear my uniform to school.. I reminded him i didnt have a name plate and asked if BDUs are fine. He said since it was BDU night anyways I could. I used the inhertitated nametape from my grandpas old CAP BDUs.

I was one of the first to be harsh on this thread. For that, I'm going to apologize.

Based on what you've posted, I'm now inclined to believe that you did not know better.

As to wearing uniforms to school, there have been some consistent problems with it. Some new cadet members have taken to wearing uniforms to school, then to the mall, then wherever they go. A lot of it is for simply getting attention, not for recruiting purposes. The biggest problem has been when a commander gets a call out of nowhere about cadets in uniform having caused problems.

This has caused some issues with schools, and has caused some negative views toward CAP. A uniform is not just a set of clothes to be worn, it represents duty. Any action, good or bad, taken in that uniform reflects on CAP as a whole. Considering how new you are to the program, I personally do not feel that you were ready.

You came here for help, and we didn't respond with any.

As far as your uniform goes, it is best not to wear it until it is complete. Having an incomplete uniform is part of what gives us a reputation of being "ragtag" and "wannabe". Difficult to get people to join when they think that 's all we are.

I can appreciate your zeal to wear a uniform, but I'd suggest some patience. The time will come.

I flew to Atlanta in 2007 for the PAO academy and National Board, I wore blues as Kach can testify.  All other uniformed service people were in ACUs and ABUs.

When I first joined the military twenty years ago, this was an example of "things not done". The service dress or variation of it was worn when traveling, nothing else. Utilities were limited on when and where. If it took longer than ten minutes for a travel stop, you didn't wear BDUs there.

Our culture has started leaning toward a "casualness". It's the only reason I can think of that explains why an ACU or ABU would be permitted for wear just about anywhere. People go to job interviews wearing polos and khakis, instead of suits with ties. Maybe I'm getting cynical, but I'm not real impressed with our culture today. (Is this a sign that I'm getting old?  )

[Rotorhead]

Our culture has started leaning toward a "casualness". It's the only reason I can think of that explains why an ACU or ABU would be permitted for wear just about anywhere. People go to job interviews wearing polos and khakis, instead of suits with ties. Maybe I'm getting cynical, but I'm not real impressed with our culture today. (Is this a sign that I'm getting old?  )

Yes.

But that doesn't make you wrong.

[LtCol057]

Unfortunately, it's not just cadets wearing the uniforms incorrectly. Years ago while I was a 1st Lt at an encampment, we had a chaplain (Lt Col at that) show up wearing blues with brown shoes and a baseball cap. He had 15 years CAP service at that time. Needless to say the encampment commander was not a happy camper. 

BTW Stonewall, I have read your stuff about training flights and wholeheartedly agree.  I'm trying to get something like that going in my squadron, but still meeting some resistance from the oldtimers. 

I guess in a way I am a uniform nazi because when I was AD, BDUs or utilities were not to be worn offbase except to and from work, with minimal (less than 10 minutes) stops.  Definitely not on commercial aircraft. But things have changed.