G/W Headgear

[DesertRat]

"Wishing we could come up with something" sounds about right to me too. And regardless of the wording, the G/W is a military style, "Class B" uniform, and should be completed with headgear that is appropriate. Saying that it isn't military while wearing grade, ribbons, wings, etc is just silly. Has there been an actual request for the grey West Point cap to be approved?

[JeffDG]

"Wishing we could come up with something" sounds about right to me too. And regardless of the wording, the G/W is a military style, "Class B" uniform, and should be completed with headgear that is appropriate. Saying that it isn't military while wearing grade, ribbons, wings, etc is just silly. Has there been an actual request for the grey West Point cap to be approved?

Unknown.

Note for the record that the CAP Command Council will be meeting next Friday and Saturday.  That means almost all the Wing and Region Commanders, along with NHQ leadership, will be in one place.

Although the final agenda for that meeting has been published already, still can't hurt to socialize an idea.

The CAP Senior Advisory Group meets in April as well.

[LegacyAirman]

I think something like this would be both stylish and practical!
http://www.keepshooting.com/swiss-wool-overseas-cap.html

[DesertRat]

Would anyone else be willing to make the request to Wing CO's for a grey flight cap to be approved? If several of us did, it might be part of their conversation this weekend.

[AlphaSigOU]

You can try submitting a proposal via channels to the NUC, but the equine has been beaten to death over 'proper' headgear proposals to wear with the corporate grays. Put it simply, ain't gonna happen.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

My experience WIWICAP is that CAP wants the "corporate" uniforms to remain in a perpetual grey (pun intended) area...that they are "military" enough to allow quasi-military styling, including the (since 1995) wearing of rank shoulder marks and CAP badging, but once the bloody horrible looking blazer is put on over it, it is too "civilian" to warrant any kind of headgear, excepting the undefined "CAP baseball cap."

I think the best that can be hoped for is to get the NUC to make a hard-and-fast definition of a "CAP baseball cap."

As it stands now, semantically, one can go and buy any sort of baseball cap (as long as it does not have "scrambled eggs" on the peak), stick a CAP patch/pin (as long as it is one not specifically forbidden by regs) on it and hey, presto, instant "CAP baseball cap."


$4.49 on EvilBay


Obsolete CAP patch, $12.00 on EvilBay

[lordmonar]

The concept of the G/W uniform has always been a low cost uniform for those who can't or don't want to wear the USAF uniform.

It is by design simple.   No coat, no over coat, no standardized pants, no single source shirt, no hat......simple.

Grey pants, white aviator shirt, name tag and rank.......whit t-shirt, black belt, black socks, black shoes (which everyone should already have).

While I can understand your need to have more "military"......CAP's position and the USAF's position is not to make it less military......just to make it cheap and simple with out adding a lot of dood dads and raising costs.

[Damron]

I have a history of skin cancer so there was never a question whether I'd wear a hat with my polo and aviator shirt uniforms.   I wear a black baseball cap with the aviator uniform, a blue cap with the polo, both with a squadron patch. 

Baseball caps are cheap as hell and available most everywhere.  Mine cost five bucks each at my local Dollar General.  There's merit to keeping it cheap and easy. 

[DesertRat]

Sometimes I am very impressed with CAP, sometimes I think we couldn't find a burning 747 at a municipal airfield.......

[Spaceman3750]

Sometimes I am very impressed with CAP, sometimes I think we couldn't find a burning 747 at a municipal airfield.......

So what are you doing to help fix the problem?

[Holding Pattern]

Sometimes I am very impressed with CAP, sometimes I think we couldn't find a burning 747 at a municipal airfield.......

So what are you doing to help fix the problem?

He's burning 747s in municipal airfields, of course!

One day we'll find that airfield.

One day...

[almostspaatz]

Sometimes I am very impressed with CAP, sometimes I think we couldn't find a burning 747 at a municipal airfield.......

So what are you doing to help fix the problem?

He's burning 747s in municipal airfields, of course!

One day we'll find that airfield.

One day...

:clap: :clap:

[NC Wing Range Master]

What about this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-Genuine-Leather-Beret-Cap-Golf-Driving-Military-Cadet-Hat-Newsboy-Basebal/390933135924?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D34862%26meid%3Ddfbaf554ef904783a038134c06ed8487%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D321815020639

NOPE...NO NO NO.....then you would look like a member of the Village People.

[Mitchell 1969]

The concept of the G/W uniform has always been a low cost uniform for those who can't or don't want to wear the USAF uniform.

It is by design simple.   No coat, no over coat, no standardized pants, no single source shirt, no hat......simple.

Grey pants, white aviator shirt, name tag and rank.......whit t-shirt, black belt, black socks, black shoes (which everyone should already have).

While I can understand your need to have more "military"......CAP's position and the USAF's position is not to make it less military......just to make it cheap and simple with out adding a lot of dood dads and raising costs.

How many CAP members choose G/W over blues because of cost? (My guess is ...very few). Meanwhile, it's already established that people are willing to shell out money for the blue uniform. In fact, given squadron supply, thrift stores, eBay etc blues might even cost less.

When the weight trstriction was imposed by USAF, CAP could have said "Lioks like half (?) of our members can't wear blues. We need to come up with a CAP specific uniform for all of us." Instead, it was more like "USAF says that half (?) of our members can't wear blues. Sucks to be them, but the rest need to stay in blues to more closely identify with USAF than with fellow CAP members."

But, be that as it may, it doesn't seem to be changing. But all the G/W people are looking for is a hat or cap to make the uniform complete, without resorting to a baseball cap option that ranges from undefined to goofy looking and everything in between.

For crying out loud, the blue flight cap and/or service cap would do it. The trousers alone are enough to say "not USAF." Failing that, there are plenty of vendors that could supply caps in grey and let the polo uniform serve as the inexpensive option.

[lordmonar]

Feel free to communicate via the chain of command to the NUC with your suggestions.

I'm just passing on the notes I took from the last three uniform meetings I sat in with NUC at the National Conventions when this very question was asked.

[LSThiker]

How many CAP members choose G/W over blues because of cost? (My guess is ...very few). Meanwhile, it's already established that people are willing to shell out money for the blue uniform. In fact, given squadron supply, thrift stores, eBay etc blues might even cost less.

I actually know a large number of SMs that wear the grey uniform because it is cheaper and easier to get and maintain than the USAF-style uniform.  In fact, the only reason why I continue to wear the USAF-style uniform is because I got it for free as a cadet (although as a cadet I did purchase a service coat and a new pair of pants).  The only item in which I have purchased as a SM are the SM-specific insignia and the officer flight cap as my BDUs were also from when I was a cadet (except the boots).  Now that my uniform is beginning to fade, I wear the corporate uniform more because it is cheaper and easier to replace among other things.  In the next few years, I am sure I will be wearing just the corporate uniform even though I can still wear the USAF-style uniform. 

[Checotah]

As I understand it, the G/W and Blazer combinations are to provide a quasi-professional appearance for more businesslike functions, while making some attempt at maintaining some degree of uniformity and corporate ID.  They do that, to some degree, when indoors.  However, when outdoors, as previously mentioned, especially in inclement weather which some of us have more than half of the year, those objectives fail without organization hat and coat.

As to the ball cap, that fails the professional look immediately when worn with long sleeve shirt and tie.  I think it actually downgrades the image.  Before someone suggests foregoing headgear, that isn't an option for some of us follicly challenged and skin cancer prone old folks.

As to costs, when I decided upon facial hair, and my wife actually liked it, I turned in all my AF style uniform parts, all of which had been purchased new on bases, complete with tailoring.  I had a whole lot more invested in all of those than I will ever have in corporate versions.

[DesertRat]

It is exactly the unfinished, undefined look that I dislike about the ball cap with the G/W. And there are vendors who could supply grey flight cap style hats; alternately they are one of the easiest things to sew up and pdf patterns exist on the net readily. (You could even by fabric to *gasp* match your pants!!!.) I am going to send a request to my Squadron CO, and Wing CO that this question be opened. If others do so this week, we might get it at least talked about informally at this weekend's meeting.

[abdsp51]

I am going to send a request to my Squadron CO, and Wing CO that this question be opened. If others do so this week, we might get it at least talked about informally at this weekend's meeting.

Follow the format in 39-1 and you shouldn't have an issue other than anyone in the chain squashing it. 

[LSThiker]

Before someone suggests foregoing headgear, that isn't an option for some of us follicly challenged and skin cancer prone old folks.

To be fair, neither does a flight cap.  A flight cap protects little of the head and none of the face, neck, or ears.  Granted, it protects more of the head than "nothing" but it is not exactly much.  A full cap (e.g. service cap, baseball cap, PC) protects more than a flight cap but still does not protect the neck and ears and only protects part of the face.