Should I go?
Is the qulaity of the course worth the time?
I see that there is an SLS coming up in the next month, but it falls on the date of a wedding of a good friend.
Question is, given they only have it once a year here in Arizona, is it worth going to??
I'm told that SLS is something you should go to early on as a senior... I've been a senior for three years now and I have yet to go. SLS and AFIADL 13 is what is holding up my promotion to Capt... For me it is finding one near enough to where I live since it is two full days of classes with no billeting and I need a ride, but you can go to one in another wing if that is more convenient.
I'd go to the next one offered that is most convenient for you. JMHO.
Quote from: MIKE on March 24, 2005, 11:28:14 PM
I'm told that SLS is something you should go to early on as a senior... I've been a senior for three years now and I have yet to go. SLS and AFIADL 13 is what is holding up my promotion to Capt... For me it is finding one near enough to where I live since it is two full days of classes with no billeting and I need a ride, but you can go to one in another wing if that is more convenient.
I'd go to the next one offered that is most convenient for you. JMHO.
So there is NO compelling reason to attend the SLS from "MY" wing???
Quote from: abysmal on March 24, 2005, 11:31:15 PM
So there is NO compelling reason to attend the SLS from "MY" wing???
There should not be... Unless attending an SLS outside of AZWG is not convent for you personally. Course content for all PD courses is supposed to be relatively standardized throughout, as I understand it.
So the question becomes just how valuable is this course?
If you want to progress past 1st Lt, it is crucial.
Quote from: arajca on March 25, 2005, 12:53:26 AM
If you want to progress past 1st Lt, it is crucial.
"Crucial" is a strong word.
Lets see.
If I get a current flight physical I can get promoted to 2nd Lt right away, if not I wait another 30 days and I am promoted anyway.
Then its what, another 18 months or so till 1st Lt ?
So Making O-3 isn't real high on my priority list, and to be honest is not a motivating factor for taking the course. What I really need is KNOWLEDGE of how things are SUPPOSED to work, as compared to how they are actually working right now..
A well run SLS is a valuable tool to running a squadron. Is the wing SLS well run? You may want to take a poll of others in your wing that have attended to answer that question. I would try to attend if you find you are being asked to fill many roles in your squadron.
SLS is good orientation to how things should work in CAP. IMHO, it should replace the Orientation Class currently given to seniors. I encourage seniors to take it as soon as they can.
The only complaint I had with my SLS was with the Cadet Programs session. Only 30 min. and concentrated on saluting. That's all it went over. Cadet programs should have at least an hour and should provide an overview of the Cadet Program. Customs and Courtesies can be taught later.
Quote from: arajca on March 25, 2005, 04:10:57 AM
SLS is good orientation to how things should work in CAP. IMHO, it should replace the Orientation Class currently given to seniors.
ORIENTATION CLASS!
What Orientation Class???
Quote from: Capt SSnyder on March 25, 2005, 02:33:22 AM
I would try to attend if you find you are being asked to fill many roles in your squadron.
That would fit my description.
Quote from: abysmal on March 25, 2005, 04:30:49 AM
Quote from: arajca on March 25, 2005, 04:10:57 AM
SLS is good orientation to how things should work in CAP. IMHO, it should replace the Orientation Class currently given to seniors.
ORIENTATION CLASS!
What Orientation Class???
The class that makes up half of Level I. CPPT and Orientation. Usually they are taught together and can take anywhere from 2 hrs to 8 hrs depending on who many people are in the class and how well they get the material. Many squadrons have new SM's watch the video and call it good - which it ain't.
Quote from: abysmal on March 25, 2005, 04:30:49 AM
Quote from: arajca on March 25, 2005, 04:10:57 AM
SLS is good orientation to how things should work in CAP. IMHO, it should replace the Orientation Class currently given to seniors.
ORIENTATION CLASS!
What Orientation Class???
That would be the first part of the Level I class you have hopefully taken. The second part is CPPT, which is required to work with cadets. See CAPR 50-17 for all the details.
Quote from: arajca on March 25, 2005, 06:29:40 AM
The class that makes up half of Level I. CPPT and Orientation. Usually they are taught together and can take anywhere from 2 hrs to 8 hrs depending on who many people are in the class and how well they get the material. Many squadrons have new SM's watch the video and call it good - which it ain't.
Ahhh, the VIDEO.
yes, I recall that was given to me at the very first meeting.
I was told to watch it, which I did, and that was the end of my "Formal" training.
Everything else since then has been on my own.
Quote from: abysmal
If I get a current flight physical I can get promoted to 2nd Lt right away, if not I wait another 30 days and I am promoted anyway.
Then its what, another 18 months or so till 1st Lt ?
So Making O-3 isn't real high on my priority list, and to be honest is not a motivating factor for taking the course. What I really need is KNOWLEDGE of how things are SUPPOSED to work, as compared to how they are actually working right now..
OK,
Not knowing if either the SLS or the wedding are close to you, I'll just throw this out and you can determine the suitability for yourself.
The quality of the SLS course may vary greatly depending upon the instructors. In fact, asking us here on the boards will probably not be as effective as asking those in your unit whether it would be worth it or not to go to the AZ one. If not, see if there's one in a nearby wing coming up before the next AZ SLS rolls around.
If you feel that this one should not be passed up, go to the SLS in the daytime and go to the wedding reception in the evening. Your friend isn't going to be focused on where
you are as he's standing up there sweating bullets. Now I'm not implying you "fake" being there, just simply attend the reception. Now if you're a groomsman, there might be a problem. :D
What is it about CAP, nothing is every easy.
Quote from: abysmal on March 25, 2005, 02:37:12 PM
Quote from: arajca on March 25, 2005, 06:29:40 AM
The class that makes up half of Level I. CPPT and Orientation. Usually they are taught together and can take anywhere from 2 hrs to 8 hrs depending on who many people are in the class and how well they get the material. Many squadrons have new SM's watch the video and call it good - which it ain't.
Ahhh, the VIDEO.
yes, I recall that was given to me at the very first meeting.
I was told to watch it, which I did, and that was the end of my "Formal" training.
Everything else since then has been on my own.
In a word, you got
screwed. I teach Level I, and my classes take all day. There are TWO videos, and lecture material material to go along with them. The five segments of the Orientation Course are :History of CAP, Missions and Organization, Uniforms, Customs and Courtesies, and Senior Member Program.
We show different uniform combinations, worn properly, and demonstrate proper saluting technique for those lacking prior experience. There is also a binder with handouts and supplementary information.
Quote from: abysmal
Then its what, another 18 months or so till 1st Lt ?
For me, it was 24 months, since the CC had the paperwork in his Chevy S10 office for a year.
Actual time-in-grade (TIG) for 2nd Lt should be 1 year.
1st Lt= 18mo
Capt= 3yr
Maj=4yr
Quote from: SarDragon on March 25, 2005, 07:26:38 PM
In a word, you got screwed. I teach Level I, and my classes take all day. There are TWO videos, and lecture material material to go along with them. The five segments of the Orientation Course are :History of CAP, Missions and Organization, Uniforms, Customs and Courtesies, and Senior Member Program.
We show different uniform combinations, worn properly, and demonstrate proper saluting technique for those lacking prior experience. There is also a binder with handouts and supplementary information.
Well, I have to be honest here.
I was a cadet for a couple years and a senior member for 6 more after that.
Given, this was all back in the late 70's and early 80's.
So I did NOT push hard for a class, as I "assumed" that most of it should/would still be familiar to me.
There HAVE been some major changes in things since 87 when I was last active.
But more is the same than different.
I was told to watch both videos, which I did, and then get started with all of the online testing, which I did.
From there I have been on my own.
Quote from: tedda on March 25, 2005, 08:47:47 PM
Quote from: abysmal
Then its what, another 18 months or so till 1st Lt ?
For me, it was 24 months, since the CC had the paperwork in his Chevy S10 office for a year.
Actual time-in-grade (TIG) for 2nd Lt should be 1 year.
1st Lt= 18mo
Capt= 3yr
Maj=4yr
Aren't you the lucky one!
Quote from: abysmal on March 25, 2005, 09:31:57 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on March 25, 2005, 07:26:38 PM
In a word, you got screwed. I teach Level I, and my classes take all day. There are TWO videos, and lecture material material to go along with them. The five segments of the Orientation Course are :History of CAP, Missions and Organization, Uniforms, Customs and Courtesies, and Senior Member Program.
We show different uniform combinations, worn properly, and demonstrate proper saluting technique for those lacking prior experience. There is also a binder with handouts and supplementary information.
Well, I have to be honest here.
I was a cadet for a couple years and a senior member for 6 more after that.
Given, this was all back in the late 70's and early 80's.
So I did NOT push hard for a class, as I "assumed" that most of it should/would still be familiar to me.
There HAVE been some major changes in things since 87 when I was last active.
But more is the same than different.
I was told to watch both videos, which I did, and then get started with all of the online testing, which I did.
From there I have been on my own.
I had a 10 year break, from 1989 to 1999. When I returned to active participation, I had to take the CPPT part of Level I, since it didn't exist in 1989. I went ahead and sat through the Orientation Course part, and realized how much had changed, and how much I had forgotten, in spite of my issue of CAP News every month.
I have heard the same thing from other members who have to take or retake CPPT after a membership lapse. Most folks sit through both segments and have appreciated the refresher. I still think your unit was remiss in not teaching the course properly. I also think they are remiss in providing little, if any, support in your Professional Development.
And thus you begin to see why I am asking about the SLS course.
I know I need to get more instruction and am hoping that the SLS is what I am looking for.
In my case I have 28 great Cadets, and three senior members running the Cadet side of a composite squadron that is for all intents and purposes two completely seperate squadrons. Since I do not attend both the Monday and the Weds meetings, I am not in the loop as to what is going on in the Senior side of the squadron.
That's a tough situation. My suggestion is to show up more frequently at whichever group holds your main interest (presumably the cadets) and once a month with the other group. You need to stay in the senior side loop or you'll just get left behind.
Whether to attend my wings SLS or good friends wedding, I would take the wedding. You can attend other Wings SLS's since it is standardized.
The problem I've seen is that some are well planned with good instructors, others are a huge waste of time with no preparation having been done.
I've directed several over the past fifteen years and put 4 to 6 months of planning into each one. I've also gotten that call the night before someone elses SLS as they tried to lock in instructors at the last minute.
My advice: Take the SLS early in your CAP career since you can't advance through the ranks without it. Also knock out that huge bore of a course the CAP Officer Course (ECI 13).
P.S. Enjoy the wedding.
Quote from: SarDragon on March 27, 2005, 07:51:06 AM
That's a tough situation. My suggestion is to show up more frequently at whichever group holds your main interest (presumably the cadets) and once a month with the other group. You need to stay in the senior side loop or you'll just get left behind.
For the last 6 months I have had 100% attendance at the Cadet meetings, and been to 1 senior meeting.
Quote from: Major_Chuck on March 28, 2005, 03:03:06 AM
Whether to attend my wings SLS or good friends wedding, I would take the wedding. You can attend other Wings SLS's since it is standardized.
The problem I've seen is that some are well planned with good instructors, others are a huge waste of time with no preparation having been done.
I've directed several over the past fifteen years and put 4 to 6 months of planning into each one. I've also gotten that call the night before someone elses SLS as they tried to lock in instructors at the last minute.
My advice: Take the SLS early in your CAP career since you can't advance through the ranks without it. Also knock out that huge bore of a course the CAP Officer Course (ECI 13).
P.S. Enjoy the wedding.
Hmm
Sounds like life in general.
You never really know the quality of something until its too late to change your mind.
Committ and then find out...
Thanks!
Quote from: Major_Chuck on March 28, 2005, 03:03:06 AM
My advice: Take the SLS early in your CAP career since you can't advance through the ranks without it. Also knock out that huge bore of a course the CAP Officer Course (ECI 13).
Having thought about this for a couple weeks now I have decided to take the SLS course and hope it is a good one and worth the time and money to attend. there is just too much I need to learn and with my current situation in our Squadron I am not going to get ANY training unless I go out looking for it myself.
Sent in my paperwork this morning.
$150 package price for the course, Room and Board.
Quote from: SarDragon on March 25, 2005, 07:26:38 PM
We show different uniform combinations, worn properly, and demonstrate proper saluting technique for those lacking prior experience. There is also a binder with handouts and supplementary information.
One thing that bothers me as a new Senior Member is that what I learned in Level 1 seems to not be reflected in the real world. I've almost never seen a senior member in our squadron in any uniform other than the golf shirt. I've never seen anyone salute anyone. Is this just our squadron? Or are all squadrons this informal?
Quote from: cmoore on April 27, 2005, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on March 25, 2005, 07:26:38 PM
We show different uniform combinations, worn properly, and demonstrate proper saluting technique for those lacking prior experience. There is also a binder with handouts and supplementary information.
One thing that bothers me as a new Senior Member is that what I learned in Level 1 seems to not be reflected in the real world. I've almost never seen a senior member in our squadron in any uniform other than the golf shirt. I've never seen anyone salute anyone. Is this just our squadron? Or are all squadrons this informal?
It varies from unit to unit.... Often the tone of the unit is set by the squadron commander and it can change with a change in leadership.
The saluting thing may be a stricter interpretation of CAPP 151 with regard to the CAP distinctive uniforms, or It may be just the culture within the unit.
It's a leadership thing. Seniors are going to be a little more informal amongst themselves but in front of cadets they should be saluting one another out of respect for the rank and setting a good example if anything.
Sometimes it leads into the whole "I didn't join the military." versus "We're a paramilitary organization as the United States Air Force Auxiliary."
Quote from: cmoore on April 27, 2005, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on March 25, 2005, 07:26:38 PM
We show different uniform combinations, worn properly, and demonstrate proper saluting technique for those lacking prior experience. There is also a binder with handouts and supplementary information.
One thing that bothers me as a new Senior Member is that what I learned in Level 1 seems to not be reflected in the real world. I've almost never seen a senior member in our squadron in any uniform other than the golf shirt. I've never seen anyone salute anyone. Is this just our squadron? Or are all squadrons this informal?
The senior portion of our composite squadron never comes in real uniforms, or the pilots show up in nomex flight suits which they should not be wearing anyway. And the commander doesn't meet grooming standards, so he never wears the USAF Uniform either.
Leadership by Example?
Sounds more like a 'lack of leadership by example'.
At least he isn't showing up in an Air Force style uniform and out of regulation.
Quote from: Major_Chuck on April 28, 2005, 02:21:51 AM
Sounds more like a 'lack of leadership by example'.
At least he isn't showing up in an Air Force style uniform and out of regulation.
He is following the rules.
he just has a handlebar mustache that he is not willing to part with, so he wears one of the optional uniforms.
We all choose which sacrifices tomake on behalf of CAP.
I had to loose my longterm beard that I had worn for the last 12 years so I could wear my uniform correctly.
I have a long time beard. It created issues when I tried to join a unit after I retired from the Navy, so I didn't participate for a while. Some time later, I finally decided to see if attitudes were any different, and found out that they were, so I started participating again.
I place a higher priority on my beard than my participation in CAP, but I don't let it get in the way either. I wear golf shirts, the aviator shirt, and blue BDUs, and wear them proudly. Up until a few months ago, I was in a unit with cadets, and my uniform and beard were never issues.
Quote from: SarDragon on May 01, 2005, 10:09:46 PM
I have a long time beard. It created issues when I tried to join a unit after I retired from the Navy, so I didn't participate for a while. Some time later, I finally decided to see if attitudes were any different, and found out that they were, so I started participating again.
I place a higher priority on my beard than my participation in CAP, but I don't let it get in the way either. I wear golf shirts, the aviator shirt, and blue BDUs, and wear them proudly. Up until a few months ago, I was in a unit with cadets, and my uniform and beard were never issues.
I FULLY understand.
And if it wasn't for the fact that I find myself in a direct leadership position where I am trying to "Set the Standard" in my own appearance, I would probably kept the beard as well!!
Just back from SLS.
At the beginning of this thread I was asking people if they thought I should go to the wedding or go to SLS. in the end I decided to go to SLS. Now that it is over with, I think I made the right decission. Had i gone to SLS back in the 80s I may very well have stayed active in CAP rather than droping out for 18 years. It wa sa real eye opener on a lot of subjects that I had never been exposed to, but more than anything it allowed me to see a large cross section of our wing, squadrons from all over the state, and people in every different track coming together.
The opportunity for questions and answers was the best part of the SLS. There was time to look things up, and people and resources to chase down topics that came up in the classes.
Some of the presentations were weak, to be sure. But others were simply outstanding.
All in all, I would make it a near manditory attendance item for all new members with in 1 year of their joining CAP if it were up to me. When the next one comes around a year from now I will do everything I possibly can to convince all senior members that have not yet gone to one to take the weekend off and make the trip.
Make it easier all around - offer to host one. That way your seniors can't say it isn't convenient. Wing staffs love it when someone else plans these things. Besides, it meets one of the requirements for Level IV.
Quote from: arajca on May 23, 2005, 05:50:08 AM
Make it easier all around - offer to host one. That way your seniors can't say it isn't convenient. Wing staffs love it when someone else plans these things. Besides, it meets one of the requirements for Level IV.
I offered to teach one of the topics at next year's SLS.
I just received word that there is an SLS planed for September at Hanscom AFB and a CLC in the Worcester area sometime in the fall.
I may not be a "Lieutenant for Life" afterall... Provided I complete AFIADL 13 sometime soon. :)
GO FOR IT~~
I had a very good time, and would STRONGLY encourage everyone to take the course.