Uniform changes

[Caelfi]

I have been a long time member, but I was absent about 4 years. I'm not understanding, nor am I finding a reason to not wear uniforms except in the field only. When did this change occur and why? If anyone knows please enlighten me. This does not make sense to me on a team unity level. I'm in a new squadron with all new people. I can't tell who is who, what their grades are or their training. No one has bothered to Make any introductions, so I'm trying to figure out my chain of command ect. This no longer looks like the CAP with an order of discipline to me. I'm quite confused.

[Stonewall]

What are you talking about?

Since it's a new squadron, maybe they haven't acquired uniforms yet?

There is nothing saying "only wear uniforms in the field."

[FlyingPig]

Nothing about CAP has changed in that regard since you were active 4 years ago.  Are there cadets all walking around in jeans and tshirts too?  Is this a senior Sq with 5 guy sitting around drinking coffee?  Was this casual friday?  These are also very easy to ask the other members.  That being said, you are more than welcome to suit up and roll in starched and pressed as well.  Id start with your unit.  Regardless of how large a unit is, I bet anyone there could direct you to the commander who could easily answer the questions.

But to answer your question, no, its still the same CAP from 4 years ago.

[PHall]

Some units have a policy of Polo Shirts only for seniors. This may be what he's talking about.

[SARDOC]

Nope, Should still be wearing uniforms for meetings as well.  That being said, I've made unofficial stops in at meetings (not my squadron) to drop stuff off, not wearing a uniform.  But if my intent was to officially participate in the meeting, it would be the uniform of the day.

[SARDOC]

Some units have a policy of Polo Shirts only for seniors. This may be what he's talking about.

That's a terrible policy.  I'd like to remind them about what the minimum basic uniform requirements are.  They should be wearing that uniform on a regular basis, even if it's just awards night.

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is absolutely a time and place for the polo uniform, but it shouldn't be the only uniform they have.   

[PHall]

Some units have a policy of Polo Shirts only for seniors. This may be what he's talking about.

That's a terrible policy.  I'd like to remind them about what the minimum basic uniform requirements are.  They should be wearing that uniform on a regular basis, even if it's just awards night.

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is absolutely a time and place for the polo uniform, but it shouldn't be the only uniform they have.   

Was NOT defending this policy, just reporting on what I have seen. And this was happening in more then one wing too.

[heliodoc]

Been to a number of meetings where the polo uniform was the accepted for both flying and UTM like activities

Some units still don't have ABUs or many a member who wore uniforms in the past...welllll...polo it is

We get that the 39-1 is still around 125 plus pages while the current 60-3 (2012) is only 34 pages long and THAT reg ought to have more MEAT to our mission,,,and may be that is CAP's problem

Too many worries about uniform

How's that CAL OES requirement of orange while under their assigned mission when CAP supports them?  Somebody cry abou t that requirement?

The worry about uniforms...welll some get the idea..

[Eclipse]

How's that CAL OES requirement of orange while under their assigned mission when CAP supports them?  Somebody cry abou t that requirement?

Yes they did, and they got rid of it.

Ages ago.

[heliodoc]

Ages ago? OK...Im behind

Nonetheless CAP needs to up its game in the uniform world

I get it....we are the USAF 501 c(3) organization

Big whatever....if the requesting agency is requesting...CAP might just behoove and move out smartly, as they say

Camo and "SAR"  been argument since forever

Time for an updated CAP ES reg and curriculum...more important than uniforms in many a mission

[NIN]

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is absolutely a time and place for the polo uniform, but it shouldn't be the only uniform they have.   

This. So much this. Over and over.

The number of times I see people in the wrong category of uniform for the gravity or formality of the event just blows my mind. You're coming up to get an "of the year" award and your wing and region commanders are in service dress (or, you're getting an award from the governor for a CAP thing, and he's in a suit) and you're standing there in a polo shirt and "cargo pants."  Terrible look, guys.

In before the polo shirt crowd goes "BuT tHe PoLo ShIrT iS sO mUcH cHeApEr!"

Polo shirt: $31.75 (screened seal) to $60.50 (personalized long sleeve)
Tac Pants: $58.85 via Vanguard, $45-50 via commerical sources
Rigger belt: $11.80 via Vanguard, $10-12 elsewhere
Black Boots: $35-50 if you need to get them.
$102-$120-ish, depending on sources, before boots

Class B aviator shirt:  $33.40 short sleeve (vanguard) or $20 on Amazon
Grey Nametag: $4.75
Shoulder Marks: $11.35 (whoa, those babies went up!)
Black dress belt: you probably have one
Grey slacks: $65 thru Vanguard, but honestly, you might have them, or you can get them for $25-30 on the economy
Black shoes: $25-30 on the economy, no reason to get those from Vanguard
$114 thru Vanguard exclusively before shoes, or $66.10 if you shop savvy "elsewhere." And by "savvy" I mean "You can probably get a $5 pair of grey slacks at the local Goodwill that will work just fine".

Which leads me to: If it isn't CAP specific, or doesn't have a CAP logo on it, and you can get it from someplace other than Vanguard, you should do so.

[Fubar]

Terrible look, guys.

To who? I'm sure at some point a parental figure told you not to worry about what other people think. There are some who take that into adulthood.

Now, if you're talking about a situation where income is involved, well then you gotta play the game. I'll even throw on a tie. A volunteer gig where I'm wearing an approved uniform correctly while the guy next to me is about to kill someone when his middle button pops on his blues jacket? Well I really don't think I'm the problem.

(P.S. I've seen NIN in person, often he was the only person in a group that was actually in regs to be in blues, so he's by no means a problem either)

[Paul Creed III]

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is absolutely a time and place for the polo uniform, but it shouldn't be the only uniform they have.   

This. So much this. Over and over.

The number of times I see people in the wrong category of uniform for the gravity or formality of the event just blows my mind. You're coming up to get an "of the year" award and your wing and region commanders are in service dress (or, you're getting an award from the governor for a CAP thing, and he's in a suit) and you're standing there in a polo shirt and "cargo pants."  Terrible look, guys.

In before the polo shirt crowd goes "BuT tHe PoLo ShIrT iS sO mUcH cHeApEr!"

Polo shirt: $31.75 (screened seal) to $60.50 (personalized long sleeve)
Tac Pants: $58.85 via Vanguard, $45-50 via commerical sources
Rigger belt: $11.80 via Vanguard, $10-12 elsewhere
Black Boots: $35-50 if you need to get them.
$102-$120-ish, depending on sources, before boots

Class B aviator shirt:  $33.40 short sleeve (vanguard) or $20 on Amazon
Grey Nametag: $4.75
Shoulder Marks: $11.35 (whoa, those babies went up!)
Black dress belt: you probably have one
Grey slacks: $65 thru Vanguard, but honestly, you might have them, or you can get them for $25-30 on the economy
Black shoes: $25-30 on the economy, no reason to get those from Vanguard
$114 thru Vanguard exclusively before shoes, or $66.10 if you shop savvy "elsewhere." And by "savvy" I mean "You can probably get a $5 pair of grey slacks at the local Goodwill that will work just fine".

Which leads me to: If it isn't CAP specific, or doesn't have a CAP logo on it, and you can get it from someplace other than Vanguard, you should do so.

Tac pants are not required for the polo uniform so the same "grey slacks" and "black shoes" from the "class B aviator shirt" option would work for the polo uniform as well.

While there could be a new uniform argument (heaven help us) that the polo should be limited to either the tac pants/boots or the slacks/shoes combos, either work. I stressed to my people during my last command to not mix-and-match. The polo, IMHO, works well with tac/pants and boots for non-dressy events and looks pretty good for dressier events with slacks and shoes. (But, please, don't buy the screen print version; that just screams "cheap" to me.) But, I do see NIN's point on polo wear during formal events.

As I near retirement, I have moved squarely into the polo-only crowd. Maintaining other uniforms with wear changes for in-frequent use doesn't serve me much any longer. YMMV

[NIN]

As I near retirement, I have moved squarely into the polo-only crowd. Maintaining other uniforms with wear changes for in-frequent use doesn't serve me much any longer. YMMV

So yeah, unfortunately I have the full-spectrum of uniforms now, partly because I was a wing commander. I had to be "all things to all people all the time" sometimes.  I think the only piece of the puzzle I don't own is that god-awful blue windbreaker, and maybe that goofy winter hat.

Selecting the correct uniform for the formality/gravity of the event was important in that role. Can't tell you how many CPU cycles I wasted going back and forth with units about "What is the UoD for the event?" or "What will everybody else be wearing?" and such.  "Just tell me: is everybody going to be in blues? OK, cool."

Why? Because as the commander there was a certain amount of "formality" that the wing commander coming to your unit should bring, and I needed to represent the wing correctly to the membership.

Everybody is in short-sleeve blues? Awesome. I'll ditch the coat. Thank you!
Its a more formal promotion night? I'll be there in service dress. Especially if the awardees are in service dress.
Got the adjutant general coming to present a Mitchell Awards? Excellent, I'll be there in service dress (but the adjutant general, being an Army guy and on his way home from JFHQ, was in OCPs... Oh well, can't win them all)
If you're in ABUs, sure, I'll show up in ABUs, no problem. No need to look like a raisin in the yoghurt, so to speak.
Its a mission and I'm flying right seat?  I'm in a flight suit.

But I would also wear corporate service dress to community events or conferences where there were either outside folks or a substantial senior presence.
Squadron aircrew meeting? Polo shirt, or maybe aviators.
Mission where I'm working in the comm room?  Blue BDUs
Mission where I didn't get to the barber this week? Corporate Flight Duty Uniform it is.

Its ok to wear the corporate uniform if you need to. Its OK to wear the polo if you need to.

Whats not really OK though is to default to the polo shirt for "everything."  Because thats not appropriate in all cases. But it was about picking the right uniform primarily for the formality of the event. 

Attached is a little graphic aid I came up with to distribute to our units and give them an idea of the categories of uniforms and their rough equivalents, especially to civilian attire (which, BTW, is OK to wear if you don't have the correct uniform!).

The 39-1 changed in 2020 to give the polo legitimacy as a "sometimes Class B/service dress equivalent," but I think everybody can agree that most of the time it is not really that.  And it is still not a substitute for the minimum basic service uniform.

[blackrain]

At the risk of pouring more fuel onto this uniform fire I'll jump in.

I see WAY more obsession with dress uniforms in CAP than I ever did on active duty. Go figure.

The vast majority of those who seem to really really love putting on the dress uniforms never served, and this is their way of playing military.

Of those who did serve most did the "corporate military" I.E. never got far from a climate-controlled/clean environment.

I remember when ABUs first hit the field and in a hot desert people were cooking in the thick material. Joked at the time that a general somewhere needed to stay warm in his over air-conditioned Pentagon Office. Probably got a kickback from the uniform contractor.

Finally, I do still have a nice dress uniform in my closet from my AD days that was not worn much that I'm sure my family will get their revenge by burying me in it one day. Just my observations. YMMV

[Paul Creed III]

As I near retirement, I have moved squarely into the polo-only crowd. Maintaining other uniforms with wear changes for in-frequent use doesn't serve me much any longer. YMMV

So yeah, unfortunately I have the full-spectrum of uniforms now, partly because I was a wing commander. I had to be "all things to all people all the time" sometimes.  I think the only piece of the puzzle I don't own is that god-awful blue windbreaker, and maybe that goofy winter hat.

Hey now, I own that windbreaker and it ain't that bad ;-)

So, reading between the lines, does this mean you own the chicken tracks scarf? ;-)

In all seriousness, I was the same way in my logic on matching (or exceeding such as being in service dress for awards/presentations) the UOD as often and as closely as possible when I started by first command tour.

[SARDOC]

I see WAY more obsession with dress uniforms in CAP than I ever did on active duty.

Did a few years Navy,  Dress Uniform worn less than 20 times.
Army National Guard (reserve), Dress Uniform exactly Zero times.  Never even had my sergeant stripes stitched on. Turned  it in the same exact packaging it was issued in. 

[NIN]

So, reading between the lines, does this mean you own the chicken tracks scarf? ;-)

Oh, hell, I forgot about that dumb thing. No. If you see me wearing that, its a duress sign. Watch for eye blinks in morse code for more clues.

[Stonewall]

For what it's worth, I have worn my service dress more times as a CAP wing commander (I have 120 days left) than in 10 years in the Army/Army Guard and 20 years in the Air National Guard, including 17 1/2 years of active duty service.

I do not enjoy wearing the service dress, it's too stuffy.  I prefer the pre-McPeak style service dress (polyesters) and didn't have a problem wearing those.

In CAP we wear blues at events the modern day Air Force doesn't. In the past 10 years I've been to dozens of Air Force conferences hosted by MAJCOMs and/or career field specific. Never once have I worn blues. All have been in ABU/OCP (or flights suits for flyers).

[Stonewall]

Looking over my promotions in the Air Force (I came in as an E-5 due to prior service in the Army), every single promotion up through CMSgt was done in ABU/OCPs.

Fun fact: since we are required to maintain a full set of serviceable blues, we have our annual blues inspection every December during our drill weekend. However, as a unit fundraiser, I created "buy your way out of blues" since 2018. You have two options, wear your service dress or BRING your service dress on a hanger and donate $20 to the squadron's emergency relief and retirement gift fund.

I ALWAYS wear my blues that day because some airmen do, but 90% do opt to carry their blues in for the "inspection."

[Shuman 14]

Looking over my promotions in the Air Force (I came in as an E-5 due to prior service in the Army), every single promotion up through CMSgt was done in ABU/OCPs.

Fun fact: since we are required to maintain a full set of serviceable blues, we have our annual blues inspection every December during our drill weekend. However, as a unit fundraiser, I created "buy your way out of blues" since 2018. You have two options, wear your service dress or BRING your service dress on a hanger and donate $20 to the squadron's emergency relief and retirement gift fund.

I ALWAYS wear my blues that day because some airmen do, but 90% do opt to carry their blues in for the "inspection."

Chief I LOVE the way your mind works, I now have a new plan for DEC2024's Battle Training assembly. 

[blackrain]

For what it's worth, I have worn my service dress more times as a CAP wing commander (I have 120 days left) than in 10 years in the Army/Army Guard and 20 years in the Air National Guard, including 17 1/2 years of active duty service.

I do not enjoy wearing the service dress, it's too stuffy.  I prefer the pre-McPeak style service dress (polyesters) and didn't have a problem wearing those.

In CAP we wear blues at events the modern day Air Force doesn't. In the past 10 years I've been to dozens of Air Force conferences hosted by MAJCOMs and/or career field specific. Never once have I worn blues. All have been in ABU/OCP (or flights suits for flyers).

Speaks volumes. It's also a pain when you get the odd squadron commander who feels the need to make Class B or equivalent the UOD monthly for squadron meetings. If CAP truly tried to really enforce a policy like this Wing/Nationwide I wonder what the affect would be on membership.

Actually, those who don't have maintain any pilot quals seems to be a little more uniform obsessed now that I think about it. Planes tend to keep pilots' feeble minds occupied.

I'm also thinking of making a nice year end donation (certainly more than $20 dollars) to the squadron on the condition I never have to hear mention of the "Class B or equivalent" printed or spoken again.

[PHall]

For what it's worth, I have worn my service dress more times as a CAP wing commander (I have 120 days left) than in 10 years in the Army/Army Guard and 20 years in the Air National Guard, including 17 1/2 years of active duty service.

I do not enjoy wearing the service dress, it's too stuffy.  I prefer the pre-McPeak style service dress (polyesters) and didn't have a problem wearing those.

In CAP we wear blues at events the modern day Air Force doesn't. In the past 10 years I've been to dozens of Air Force conferences hosted by MAJCOMs and/or career field specific. Never once have I worn blues. All have been in ABU/OCP (or flights suits for flyers).

The wear of ABU/OCP/Flight Suit for everything thing came along right after 9-11 happened. It was "supposed" to show support for the troops in the field. It seems to have become the norm today.
CAP's wear of the Class A and B uniforms pretty much reflects what the military did before 9-11.

[Eclipse]

"Class B or equivalent"

"Class B or equivalent" is the uniform required to be owned by all members, why wouldn't they
be wearing on the reg?

[Eclipse]

CAP's wear of the Class A and B uniforms basically everything pretty much reflects what the military did before 9-11.

FTFY.

[PHall]

CAP's wear of the Class A and B uniforms basically everything pretty much reflects what the military did before 9-11.

FTFY.


Please look in a currant CAPR 39-1 before you try to fix that for me.
Para 4.1.5 and 4.1.11

[blackrain]

"Class B or equivalent"

"Class B or equivalent" is the uniform required to be owned by all members, why wouldn't they
be wearing on the reg?

Based on what I know of units/members around the country it's not enforced 90 plus percent of the time. If it were that important then CAP would or should be doing a better job enforcing the reg. across the board. I wouldn't be surprised if whomever wrote the reg was someone lacking in real world military experience. Or maybe like the SGM in Kuwait who complained about the small red button light clipped to our uniform used frequently on our patrols. Of course, he never left the DFAC in Kuwait. Made walking in the unlit areas a lot safer for sure. There are more than a few regs that are brought to CAP/military courtesy of the good idea fairy. I actually spoke to an active-duty O-5 a few days ago who happens to be in CAP and he asked why these few people get so hung up on the Class B issue. Not very practical and as a pilot I spend a fair amount in the hanger both during meetings and outside of meetings for that matter and I've had clothes ruined by the many things found there. White shirts don't do well in that environment.

Maybe your time in the military was different? I'd love to hear about it.

[Shawn Stanford]

Maybe your time in the military was different? I'd love to hear about it.

It was.

I was a AD Marine in the 80s working in IT. Stateside we wore Chucks 4 days a week and cammies once, the opposite when I was in Oki. When I was in the Guard starting in the 2000s, it was all CVCU (as a tanker) or BDUs (and later ACUs, then OCPs). The only time M-Day guys wore service or dress uniforms was for boards or special occasions, like Dinings In.

When I was at Sill for TRADOC schools, it was ACU/OCPs, and ASU for 'Payday Activities' and more formal ceremonies, such as graduations.

That being said, I own and wear the dress uniforms for all the services I've been with. I still have my USMC Dress Blues in my closet; I own Army Mess Dress and CAP Mess Dress. I wear them every chance I get.

However, other than the CAP Mess Dress, I don't wear any USAF-style uniforms. I'm done with them.

I understand that people think service uniforms are too fussy, but I don't really understand why. I think under-dressing for a situation detracts from the sense of occasion. Sort of like going to a Halloween party in your day-to-day street clothes. I mean: Sure, okay. But are you really engaged and fully participating in what's going on? Nope.

I love the polo and I wear it all the time. I'm actually stunned that CAP was able to come up with it; we screw up uniforms so often and so hard. But the polo is not always appropriate for the event. And, as folks have pointed out, it's not the Minimum Uniform. I wear the polo when my Cadets are in ABU. When they're in Blues, I wear the Aviator.

And in conclusion: The 39-1 is a train wreck of colossal proportions. They should hand it to me for a rewrite.

[Stonewall]

I wouldn't be surprised if whomever wrote the reg was someone lacking in real world military experience. Or maybe like the SGM in Kuwait who complained about the small red button light clipped to our uniform used frequently on our patrols.

Maybe your time in the military was different? I'd love to hear about it.

Comparing someone who wrote a uniform reg for CAP to the REMF SGM on a deployment (however so tame and more of a TDY than deployment) isn't relevant in this discussion. In CAP vernacular, that'd be like comparing a hardened ground pounding SAR guru to an aerospace education officer. But I do see where you're coming from.

While I am not a fan of wearing blues, or any formal uniform, they do have their place in CAP (and the military). In my opinion, wearing a military uniform, specifically a version of the dress uniform (ideally, Class B), for cadets is a cornerstone of the cadet program. I also believe that the Class B uniform SHOULD NOT be the first, initial uniform, but rather the utility uniform. In 2023, that means ABUS - - who knows what it'll mean in 2024 or 2037.

In 1987 as a doolie at my first CAP encampment at Tyndall AFB, I had a single set of blues (Class B), yet we wore it 5 of the 7 days, with a long inspection formation following morning chow in the very hot sun. Fatigues were worn during the obstacle course and a few "get dirty" activities like with the crash rescue folks. After that, my blues shirt was destroyed after encampment. Today, I see cadets scrambling to purchase all the intricacies of the basic Class B uniform days before encampment, only to wear ABUs 90% of the time.

As a squadron CDC and then CC in the nineties, I mandated BDUs as the primary uniform and that's what cadets graduated T-Flight (now called Cadet Great Start) in. They can do so much more in the fatigue/BDU/ABU/OCP uniform than in blues. Hell, I even saw a CAP unit conducting a color guard mission during Wreaths Across America last week in ABUs. Why not? I applaud them for being in UNI-form in ABUs rather than wearing blues and lacking some sort of accoutrement. Not to mention, ABUs are warmer than short-sleeve blues.

In short (if you didn't read above), I do believe there is a place for blues in CAP, with a bulk of that rationale going toward the cadet program. But I do believe ABU/OCPs should be our primary duty uniform and the FIRST uniform a cadet should own.

For seniors? That's a different discussion. I have my thoughts on that as well.

[SierraOneThree]

As a squadron CDC and then CC in the nineties, I mandated BDUs as the primary uniform and that's what cadets graduated T-Flight (now called Cadet Great Start) in. They can do so much more in the fatigue/BDU/ABU/OCP uniform than in blues. Hell, I even saw a CAP unit conducting a color guard mission during Wreaths Across America last week in ABUs. Why not? I applaud them for being in UNI-form in ABUs rather than wearing blues and lacking some sort of accoutrement. Not to mention, ABUs are warmer than short-sleeve blues.

Times they are changin. I agree with the principle that the field uniform should be the minimum required uniform, but tragically that is not yet the case. Hopefully you aren't still mandating the field uniform in lieu of the blues these days without supplying them, cuz 39-1 has entered the chat if so.

[Paul Creed III]

I also believe that the Class B uniform SHOULD NOT be the first, initial uniform, but rather the utility uniform. In 2023, that means ABUS - - who knows what it'll mean in 2024 or 2037.

I'm with you, boss, on this one too for cadets. The utility uniform has much more... utility than blues and I think that should be the first unform for cadets. The utility unform is much more forgiving with growing cadets and having that now be included as part of the Curry Uniform Voucher is a good thing. Hopefully, that'll continue for whatever utility unform comes next.

[blackrain]

Danger of the written word without the face-to-face context. I'll try to clarify. I referred to the SGM in Kuwait as an example of an attitude. Putting small issues above the big issues no matter what.

I also agree the senior uniform discussion needs to be separate from the cadet uniform discussion. I actually remember way back in basic training we didn't see a dress uniform until maybe week 6 and part of that was the reality that trainees often saw a significant weight loss in that time. Hats off to TRADOC. Of course, all these uniforms were issued at government expense so there is that.

So yes, I believe the field uniform should be the minimum required. Way more versatile.

Actually, it reminds of reserve component drill weekends when mandatory "PowerPoint Taskers" were sent last minute down from on high and the carefully planned training schedule for that weekend gets blown up. I would argue they were not value added with the limited time available. Same for weekly squadron meetings. Training time is precious. I've seen dealing with cadet uniforms especially dress uniforms take more than a little time away from the other tasks at hand.
My 0.02

[Eclipse]

Comparing someone who wrote a uniform reg for CAP to the REMF SGM on a deployment (however so tame and more of a TDY than deployment) isn't relevant in this discussion.

<<Boom>>

[Stonewall]

As a squadron CDC and then CC in the nineties, I mandated BDUs as the primary uniform and that's what cadets graduated T-Flight (now called Cadet Great Start) in. They can do so much more in the fatigue/BDU/ABU/OCP uniform than in blues. Hell, I even saw a CAP unit conducting a color guard mission during Wreaths Across America last week in ABUs. Why not? I applaud them for being in UNI-form in ABUs rather than wearing blues and lacking some sort of accoutrement. Not to mention, ABUs are warmer than short-sleeve blues.

Times they are changin. I agree with the principle that the field uniform should be the minimum required uniform, but tragically that is not yet the case. Hopefully you aren't still mandating the field uniform in lieu of the blues these days without supplying them, cuz 39-1 has entered the chat if so.

First line...

As a squadron CDC and then CC in the nineties...

Even then, the short-sleeve blues was the required minimum uniform for cadets. If I were a squadron commander today, I'd still place priority on ABUs over blues for a number of reasons. First, at least locally, ABUs are ridiculously accessible. We pretty much have an unlimited supply since we're around an Air Force base and have four ANG Wings and three AFRES wings in our state. Of course, smaller sizes aren't always available, but by and large, we get what the cadets need for ABUs. Outside of the occasional ABU hat and black boots, most of our cadets have at least one set of ABUs and no one has been forced to buy any (unless they choose to). Blues are much harder to acquire and if we waited to promote cadets to C/Amn until they had their blues, you'd find silly pictures of cadets getting pinned their first stripe to civilian polo shirt (I see these regularly). Instead, we can get them their ABUs within their first few weeks and they can promote in a complete uniform.

Looking back, I was a squadron commander up until about 2005, but even then BDUs were the primary uniform for my squadron and upon graduating T-Flight, we focused on getting them blues prior to encampment. With a heavy focus on ES at the time, it only made sense, despite what the required minimum uniform was for cadets.

The good thing about CAP is, despite the regs, simple things like uniforms of the day can be dictated at the unit level and no one gets hurt. If it makes sense and builds camaraderie and esprit de corps, then I'll take the heat for it. Blues is a great idea, but rarely does it work out when you're graduating 10 cadets of all shapes/sizes from Cadet Great Strat. Depending on where people live may dictate their local operating procedures.  In the end, I'm not a squadron commander and likely won't be again, so my opinion is, if anything, worth a cup of coffee.

[blackrain]

Comparing someone who wrote a uniform reg for CAP to the REMF SGM on a deployment (however so tame and more of a TDY than deployment) isn't relevant in this discussion.

<<Boom>>

Please see my clarification in my post immediately preceding yours.

I have no problem discussing this issue with you or anyone else directly if that avoids a misunderstanding.

It's a shame we all can't do so more often. Maybe on Teams?

[heliodoc]

I am going to agree w blackrain in his assessment. When you spend time in amolitary hangar or any civilian hangar CAP ought to have had that foresight in the last 82 years. Why does one suppose that Class B greens, pink n greens were not a selected uniform for a hangar environment? Those seemingly were for the office and dog n pony shows.

A white shirt for a mandatory uniform? For senior members who active in ground and aviation operations...it seems to me, like the rest of the response world, CAP would be engaged a more all around type of uniform such as a polo, that could be worn for what we do

[PHall]

I am going to agree w blackrain in his assessment. When you spend time in amolitary hangar or any civilian hangar CAP ought to have had that foresight in the last 82 years. Why does one suppose that Class B greens, pink n greens were not a selected uniform for a hangar environment? Those seemingly were for the office and dog n pony shows.

A white shirt for a mandatory uniform? For senior members who active in ground and aviation operations...it seems to me, like the rest of the response world, CAP would be engaged a more all around type of uniform such as a polo, that could be worn for what we do

The two required uniforms are service uniforms. Never seen anybody do ground or aviation operations in a service uniform. That's why there are other more suitable uniforms for those activities.

[Dad2-4]

I wear the white aviator shirt combo, the polo shirt with either slacks or cargo pants, blue BDU utility uniform, or the corporate dress uniform as occasion dictates. Since I'm the CC of a new unit, I get to choose. 

[Hippidy]

my .02 cents,

 As a member of a military family, 5 years of "Young Marines" (FWIW), and now a CAP member:

I think the utility uniform should be the required standard and the Blues be the second suggested uniforms for several reasons

1) Hangar and ES heavy squadrons will get way more use out of the Utility Uniforms.
2) Learning to crawl before you walk... Cadets need to learn basic care of uniforms before taking on the challenge of Dress Uniforms.
3) Currently in my squadron the UOD breakdown is thus:
   1st Monday: Dress Blue - Corporate Aviator
   2nd Monday: Utilities
   3rd Monday: Utilities
   4th Monday: PT Gear - Polo (Seniors)
4) Cost of acquiring ABU is less steep for Cadets given our availability of free or discounted uniforms
   (our squadron has a closet with a wide variety of ABUs that helps with keeping entry cost low) 

[SierraOneThree]

4) Cost of acquiring ABU is less steep for Cadets given our availability of free or discounted uniforms
   (our squadron has a closet with a wide variety of ABUs that helps with keeping entry cost low) 

Milsurp ABUs are pretty much gone now.

[arajca]

4) Cost of acquiring ABU is less steep for Cadets given our availability of free or discounted uniforms
   (our squadron has a closet with a wide variety of ABUs that helps with keeping entry cost low) 

Milsurp ABUs are pretty much gone now.

More important - cadet sized milsurp ABUs are gone.

[Shuman 14]

More important - cadet sized milsurp ABUs are gone.

Time to switch to OCP's. Just saying.

[mdickinson]

Attached is a little graphic aid I came up with to distribute to our units and give them an idea of the categories of uniforms and their rough equivalents, especially to civilian attire (which, BTW, is OK to wear if you don't have the correct uniform!).

Nin, thanks for making this graphic aid - it looks like it will be really useful, especially for new senior members!

I wonder if it would be possible to get an updated version - one with the correct color of grade and nametag on the flight suit. (I would do it myself, but I don't have the photoshop skills...)

And if you do decide to update it, perhaps have a look at the cadet semi-formal uniform in the top row. Something seems a little odd about that one! 

[NIN]

Oh, geez.

I did this whole thing in Word, and NOBODY noticed any of that. Least of all me. I have noted that occasionally it just "flips" a graphic while resizing.

(Also, look at the Corp FDU and Blue BDUs.. still old nametags)

Durrr.. 2024 version coming up!

[NIN]

<drumroll>

Uniform Equivalents 2024 v1.0

[HandsomeWalt_USMC]

Thank you for not putting graphics showing neckties on short sleeve shirts on there.

[ML07]

<drumroll>

Uniform Equivalents 2024 v1.0

Thanks! This is great.

[SierraOneThree]

I'm going to order one of those flight scarves just to be the only person in CAP history to wear one.

[NIN]

I'm going to order one of those flight scarves just to be the only person in CAP history to wear one.

It is one of only like three CAP uniform items I don't own. Nor will I own.

[THRAWN]

It'd look great with the short sleeve blue jumpsuit or the guyabera shirt...

I'm going to order one of those flight scarves just to be the only person in CAP history to wear one.

It is one of only like three CAP uniform items I don't own. Nor will I own.

[THRAWN]

Sadly, you wouldn't be...

I'm going to order one of those flight scarves just to be the only person in CAP history to wear one.

[supertigerCH]

Thanks for making (& updating) this, Colonel Ninness... 

Very useful!

[NIN]

Thank you for not putting graphics showing neckties on short sleeve shirts on there.

"Minimum basic service uniform."

[SierraOneThree]

Sadly, you wouldn't be...

My hopes dashed once again

[NIN]

It'd look great with the short sleeve blue jumpsuit or the guyabera shirt...

Why do you have to harsh my weekend?
 

[HandsomeWalt_USMC]

I'm too young to really remember the guayabera but I remember seeing it in old CAP literature when I was a wee cadet. I'd 100% wear one now if I could and I would pull it off.

I recently learned about the turtleneck option for corporate service dress. I am going to order a blazer nametag and patch just to rock that sometime next winter.