Jump Start- ABU Name Tapes, AF Occupational Badges, CAP Specialty Track Badges,

[Garibaldi]

Our problem is that the one Air Force base in our area can be hit up by at least 25 units, both cadet and senior. My guess is that the closest one would have already hit them up. Our next option would be one of the many JROTC units, but that may be a dry well too.

Just think...greater Atlanta area and we're starving for ABUs already. Maybe. Possibly. Or I just don't know what I'm talking about and will shut my pie hole because I didn't do my research.

On the other hand, according to someone I talked to, people don't ETS out of Dobbins ARB anymore. The closest surplus store there has about 8 to 10 full sets of ABUs and a few more woodland BDUs.

So. We'll see what happens. I'm sure eBay is going to turn into a dry well for a while come June 15. US Patriot Tactical has a decent supply and occasionally they do closeout sales on selected ABUs.

But, as mentioned before, until I lose the front-mounted food processing and storage unit, I ain't wearing anything but the polo/tactical pants.

[majdomke]

Most of the crap on eBay is the old style that is very hot and thick. The new stuff AAFES is selling are 50/50 ripstop. Most of what's online is 100% cotton twill or the special ripstop for electrical work. Very hard to find 50/50 nyco ripstop and when you do they want $60 ea. It's only like $35 on base. Probably going to be $70 at Vanguard. Let's just hope every squadron gets so much supply we can avoid the base or online. Of course, the stuff they are sending us is most likely the old stock 100% cotton twill. Might be fine in northern states but never going to work here in California or southern states.

[grunt82abn]

Most of the crap on eBay is the old style that is very hot and thick. The new stuff AAFES is selling are 50/50 ripstop. Most of what's online is 100% cotton twill or the special ripstop for electrical work. Very hard to find 50/50 nyco ripstop and when you do they want $60 ea. It's only like $35 on base. Probably going to be $70 at Vanguard. Let's just hope every squadron gets so much supply we can avoid the base or online. Of course, the stuff they are sending us is most likely the old stock 100% cotton twill. Might be fine in northern states but never going to work here in California or southern states.

If they follow true military thinking; California and all the hot, Southern States will get heavy winter weights, and the Freezing Cold Northern States will get light summer weight. Just like issuing furnaces, NavSta San Diego received heavy duty furnaces and NavSta Great Lakes received light duty furnaces. 

[abdsp51]

No such thing as summer or winter weight ABUs.

[grunt82abn]

No such thing as summer or winter weight ABUs.

Sorry for the mistake, I work with 128th SFS and always hear them referred to as summer and winter weight. I'll make sure I pass this along to them. Thank for the info

[Luis R. Ramos]

I think ABD is referring to the ABUs. He did not speak about the RABU...

Or do we want to start a new discussion on whether the RABUs are not to be worn by CAP because... the authorization did not specify RABU so we are only authorized winter-weight ABU?

[Let me add, the sarcasm filter is on!]

[abdsp51]

I think ABD is referring to the ABUs. He did not speak about the RABU...

Or do we want to start a new discussion on whether the RABUs are not to be worn by CAP because... the authorization did not specify RABU so we are only authorized winter-weight ABU?

[Let me add, the sarcasm filter is on!]

The ABU is used to describe the original ABU and the RABU.  In the AFI there is no reference to summer or winter weight ABUs as there was the BDU.  You have ABU, RABU, and the 100% Cotton ABU (for specific career fields only).

The ABU and RABU are a 50/50 blend across the board and there is no terminology within the AF for winter or summer weights.  The ABU has evolved into what we have today. 

Further information can be found in AFI36-2903 Chapter 5.1

[PHall]

No such thing as summer or winter weight ABUs.

Sorry for the mistake, I work with 128th SFS and always hear them referred to as summer and winter weight. I'll make sure I pass this along to them. Thank for the info

The Ripstop ABU's (RABU) are sometimes called "Summer Weight" ABU's. This is an unofficial name for them.

[skymaster]

Your suggestion re Blues will not work for most city cadets. They will not receive their Blues uniform voucher until after Curry which is their first promotion. So now, no complete ABU untill who knows when? If they are joining now, will have to look for BDUs which will be like throwing away money.

Not really.....statistically speaking....almost all of those cadets will have quit CAP before they HAVE TO wear ABUs.

Agreed. But even if they were to go ahead and get the ABU's and begin wearing them on the start date (new cadets without their tapes) I can't imagine a senior member berating them for not having a complete uniform as a fresh cadet, and if you do your job with the cadets you wouldn't need to worry about them saying anything either. My squadron, it seems to take the new cadets about a month to get their first set of uniforms done. I think that's more than enough time, and we can do what we need to to make due until the phase in period begins.

The auto-panic isn't really needed. We make due, we stay flexible. Semper Gumby my friends.

The idea about new members wearing the utility uniform on duty without tapes initially actually has a precedent in our parent service. When I went through Air Force Basic Training at Lackland AFB, we began our training in whatever civilian clothing we had brought with us. (Much like new members who just joined). Because of everyone wearing differently coloured clothing that first week, our Military Training Instructors called us "rainbows". For the second and third weeks of Basic Training, we wore plain BDUs with no embroidered insignia of any type (although, we did have our last name handwritten by us on a piece of paper masking tape stuck on the BDUs so the MTI would know the last name of the trainee to more efficiently enforce AF training standards upon us). Because of the lack of sewn tapes or insignia, the MTIs referred to us as "plain relish". As we entered the midpoint of Basic Training, we were finally issued our nametapes, and the entire flight was marched down to the Base Exchange uniform sewing shop to have their name and branch tapes sewn on. With the permanent cloth tapes now sewn on, for the fouth and fifth week of Basic the MTIs referred to us as "canned relish". For the last week, we wore our service dress uniforms with all earned grade, ribbons, and the MTIs referred to us as "Blues". Now, not to fine a point on it, if having a new recruit wearing a utility uniform (BDU or ABU) without any nametapes or insignia until halfway through Basic Training at the very "Gateway To The Air Force" is a good enough official practice for the actual active duty U.S. Air Force, then CAP should have no problem with CAP's own members wearing an authorised utility uniform combination for short time (long enough for Vanguard to catch up on providing said tapes and insignia), since we would actually be following the practice of our parent service.

[PHall]

Your suggestion re Blues will not work for most city cadets. They will not receive their Blues uniform voucher until after Curry which is their first promotion. So now, no complete ABU untill who knows when? If they are joining now, will have to look for BDUs which will be like throwing away money.

Not really.....statistically speaking....almost all of those cadets will have quit CAP before they HAVE TO wear ABUs.

Agreed. But even if they were to go ahead and get the ABU's and begin wearing them on the start date (new cadets without their tapes) I can't imagine a senior member berating them for not having a complete uniform as a fresh cadet, and if you do your job with the cadets you wouldn't need to worry about them saying anything either. My squadron, it seems to take the new cadets about a month to get their first set of uniforms done. I think that's more than enough time, and we can do what we need to to make due until the phase in period begins.

The auto-panic isn't really needed. We make due, we stay flexible. Semper Gumby my friends.

The idea about new members wearing the utility uniform on duty without tapes initially actually has a precedent in our parent service. When I went through Air Force Basic Training at Lackland AFB, we began our training in whatever civilian clothing we had brought with us. (Much like new members who just joined). Because of everyone wearing differently coloured clothing that first week, our Military Training Instructors called us "rainbows". For the second and third weeks of Basic Training, we wore plain BDUs with no embroidered insignia of any type (although, we did have our last name handwritten by us on a piece of paper masking tape stuck on the BDUs so the MTI would know the last name of the trainee to more efficiently enforce AF training standards upon us). Because of the lack of sewn tapes or insignia, the MTIs referred to us as "plain relish". As we entered the midpoint of Basic Training, we were finally issued our nametapes, and the entire flight was marched down to the Base Exchange uniform sewing shop to have their name and branch tapes sewn on. With the permanent cloth tapes now sewn on, for the fouth and fifth week of Basic the MTIs referred to us as "canned relish". For the last week, we wore our service dress uniforms with all earned grade, ribbons, and the MTIs referred to us as "Blues". Now, not to fine a point on it, if having a new recruit wearing a utility uniform (BDU or ABU) without any nametapes or insignia until halfway through Basic Training at the very "Gateway To The Air Force" is a good enough official practice for the actual active duty U.S. Air Force, then CAP should have no problem with CAP's own members wearing an authorised utility uniform combination for short time (long enough for Vanguard to catch up on providing said tapes and insignia), since we would actually be following the practice of our parent service.

You don't put the tapes on until the 3rd week because it takes the AAFES vendor that long to make the tapes. Not because you have to "earn" them.
And the FNG's were being called "Rainbows" even back in 1974 when did my time at Lackland.

[Eclipse]

Since field uniforms are 100% optional for all members, there is no reason for anyone, including new cadets, to
wear them w/o tapes, or anything else that is required.

There is no constraint on the items for the required uniform.

[PHall]

Since field uniforms are 100% optional for all members, there is no reason for anyone, including new cadets, to
wear them w/o tapes, or anything else that is required.

There is no constraint on the items for the required uniform.

Field uniforms are 100% optional? Okay, are they required at the ILWG Spring Encampment?
Or do you do the entire Encampment in Blues?

[Eclipse]

Field uniforms are 100% optional? Okay, are they required at the ILWG Spring Encampment?

Context is everything, however 39-1 indicates they cannot be required for cadets unless issued, and they are 100% optional for seniors.
It's argued encampments are optional, ergo...

Will 75% optional turn off your pedantic indicator light?

[majdomke]

We don't even issue blues. They get a voucher after their first promotion.

[THRAWN]

Blues are a requirement. See 1.2.1 of 39-1. What my esteemed colleage from the Old Northwest is making reference to is that utility unis of ALL flavors are not required by regs and must be issued if required by an activity or school.

[Garibaldi]

Blues are a requirement. See 1.2.1 of 39-1. What my esteemed colleage from the Old Northwest is making reference to is that utility unis of ALL flavors are not required by regs and must be issued if required by an activity or school.

Which seems very odd to me, because IMO a good 70% of CAP activities would preclude the wear of blues or the corporate variant. My guess is the spirit of the regs means that the BDUs (soon to be ABUs) would be held in reserve (either at home or at the unit) until it is needed to be worn (missions), and that we would attend ALL meetings except PT nights in blues. In-residence courses like SLS, CLC and so on all stipulate BDUs/utilities will not be worn.

So, while it makes little sense it makes sense. 

[THRAWN]

But that is not what it says. Not even in the zip code.

[kwe1009]

Blues are a requirement. See 1.2.1 of 39-1. What my esteemed colleage from the Old Northwest is making reference to is that utility unis of ALL flavors are not required by regs and must be issued if required by an activity or school.

Which seems very odd to me, because IMO a good 70% of CAP activities would preclude the wear of blues or the corporate variant. My guess is the spirit of the regs means that the BDUs (soon to be ABUs) would be held in reserve (either at home or at the unit) until it is needed to be worn (missions), and that we would attend ALL meetings except PT nights in blues. In-residence courses like SLS, CLC and so on all stipulate BDUs/utilities will not be worn.

So, while it makes little sense it makes sense. 

While I agree with you that it is strange that the uniform worn the most by the membership is actually not the required uniform per 1.2.1, it is what the reg mandates.  Activities like encampments, ES training, etc are not mandatory for CAP members and thus while the activity director may mandated the UOD to be BDUs and not have to issue them.   

Now if a Unit CC says that the all squadron members must have a squadron hat or t-shirt then it would have to be issued by the squadron. per 1.2.1.  T

[PHall]

You say Encampment is not "required", but, for the cadet to advance in the program they have to attend and complete an Encampment.
Otherwise they can be 2b'd for failure to progress in the program.
Sounds like Catch 22 is alive and well!

[Eclipse]

Sounds like Catch 22 is alive and well!

This is news?