Misdeamnor Drug Possession Conviction

[Eclipse]

I don't understand the purpose of this thread.

You have facts presented to you second, or third, or fourth-hand. If there is someone with reliable information who chooses to initiate an IG investigation, fine. Otherwise, what's the point?

Ditto.  Over the last month or two we've seen new posters wandering in with situations that are far too specific, detailed, or full of caveats to be addressed coherently in a forum like this.

Stuff happens, people make bad choices, and others try to smooth things over or cover them up, etc.  This happens in families, business, the military, and yes, CAP.

In some of these cases there might be cause for an IG to be involved, assuming someone actually files a complaint, but in most of them its 2nd/3rd-hand information, and its seems as if the only reason for posting is some bizarre catharsis of making the allegations publicly, without the need to actually sign your name on a complaint and stand by your concerns.

The other phenomena is a poster who slowly escalates the details and makes the situation worse and worse until even the most restrained readers are forced to respond.

How we react to these situations, and act when we are in positions of authority or leadership are all we can control. If that's the only lesson CAP imparts to members, especially our cadets, we've been successful.

[STG3, USN]

The Military has the zero tolerance policy one offense and your out no questions asked, oh yeah and your barred from ever reenlisting into any component of the Armed Forces again. I imagine CAP would be the same way.

[Gunner C]

After reading the post above, there should be a line in the personnel regulation that prohibits members from resigning in lieu of an investigation that could lead to termination or perhaps other types of disciplinary actions.

[Spike]

^ Even the military sometimes allows "resignation for good of the service".  If a person quits, that does not mean the Powers that be in CAP, can not flag him or her in the system as to prevent their return.   

[AlphaSigOU]

^ Even the military sometimes allows "resignation for good of the service".  If a person quits, that does not mean the Powers that be in CAP, can not flag him or her in the system as to prevent their return.

For officers, it's sometimes referred to: RILO (Resign [your commission] In Lieu Of [a court-martial]). In CAP it could be easily adapted; instead of 'commission' it's 'membership' and court-martial changes to 'termination'. Such a choice would have an adverse action flag placed in the membership database.

[Eclipse]

I would swear I read somewhere that members being investigated by an IG could not resign voluntarily until the investigation was closed.

As to flagging a membership, there's nothing stopping a Unit CC from writing a memorandum for the member's personnel records and forwarding a copy to Wing.  It may get lost/ignored/etc., but at least there's something to record why the person left.

[cap235629]

You had better read that Constitution again.  Specifically the 10th Amendment.  NOWHERE in the Constitution does it say Federal Law ALWAYS supersedes state and/or local law.  It is actually the contrary.

And you may want to read it again as well. Pay particular attention to article 6, paragraph 2, otherwise known as the supremacy clause. Because it actually does say that.

I agree with respect to those powers granted the federal government as enumerated in the Constitution

[a2capt]

...and more California antics:
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_8a03cd17-f9df-5834-9796-2bf586792e79.html

I do have to say that should I be on a membership review committee at the time that a potential member for review shows up that reeks of pot ...

I think the whole thing is a mockery of the law.

But- it's legal under state statute, and .. with that, it's not really any different than beer and booze. If you are operating under the influence, you face the music. Can't say I've ever had anyone show up at a CAP meeting stinking of beer.

But just the drug conviction is really enough to sway me, as it's been pointed out, we have a whole program related to keeping the kids motivated enough to keep the lure of drugs away from them.

[Eclipse]

But- it's legal under state statute, and .. with that, it's not really any different than beer and booze. If you are operating under the influence, you face the music. Can't say I've ever had anyone show up at a CAP meeting stinking of beer.

A statute which conflicts with a higher authority, and which the state does not have the power to relax, any more than they could license treason.

Over 21 alcohol is a legal substance to consume, so then we're left with CAP behavior regulations or actions caused by the intoxication, however in most cases, the intoxication itself is not illegal, its doing it in public, driving under the influence or with an open container, etc.

Mere possession of alcoholic beverages isn't illegal, nor could you terminate a CAP member for having a 6-pack in his trunk.  Not so with Cannabis.

[Major Carrales]

You had better read that Constitution again.  Specifically the 10th Amendment.  NOWHERE in the Constitution does it say Federal Law ALWAYS supersedes state and/or local law.  It is actually the contrary.

And you may want to read it again as well. Pay particular attention to article 6, paragraph 2, otherwise known as the supremacy clause. Because it actually does say that.

I agree with respect to those powers granted the federal government as enumerated in the Constitution

Smoking pot is "enumerated in the Constitution?"  Really...

Let's not start cutting up the US Constitution for disingenuous or agendistic reasons. Honestly, this sort of bending of the Constitution is likely more disrespectful to its Framer's Intent than not following it at all.

[Gunner C]

Can't say I've ever had anyone show up at a CAP meeting stinking of beer.

I have - I was a brand new squadron CC.  One of the parents came to me telling me that the DCC smelled of alcohol, not just that week, but every week.  I held a staff meeting, telling the SMs that doing anything with the cadets smelling of alcohol would be grounds for termination.  I never saw that SM again.  The person was not only running a cadet program drunk, but was driving on Pope AFB smelling of booze in a CAP uniform.  Bad for the SM and bad for CAP is they were caught.

It was the only time I've ever seen anyone who had been drinking before a unit meeting (at least the only one I've ever caught).  I know that there were several who imbibed in after-meeting meetings.

[CAPSGT]

I've come across the drunk prospective senior member situation before.  The decision of the rather ad-hoc membership committee was going to be to deny the application, but he never showed up again, so it never got to that point anyways.

[Spike]

There are a few Wing Conferences where there is a hospitality room for Senior Members too drink and socialize.  Some Seniors walk out in front of Cadets toasted.  For that, the Wing Commander needs Fired. 

[Gunner C]

^^^^^
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

As a former region chief of staff, I've seen more than a couple of hospitality rooms and seen members stagger out (not all, but some). I don't drink, so after talking to a few folks, I usually excuse myself and go see what the cadets are doing.  They usually are out in the hallway somewhere just socializing, rolling their eyes at the occasional SM who staggers by.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

If you are on meds legitimately prescribed by an M.D., D.O., Physician's Assistant or Nurse Practitioner (let me know if I've left any out), first of all, it needs to be on your Form 60.  CYA.

Second of all, going by the limited information the original poster provided, I would say to tell him/her to try and see how far s/he gets.

Bear in mind, though, when filling out your membership application, you must be nothing less than completely honest about everything, because failure to do so, if found out, is grounds for showing you the door right there.

I don't know if what CAP does is a full National Agency Check, but if it is, and there's a conviction on file, my guess is that it will very probably come up, not to mention if there are any adverse actions on file at National.

I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not a police officer, just a CAP member putting in my $.02, and part of that (putting on former DDRO hat) is that anyone with a drug conviction, no matter for what, has no business being around a CAP activity, period.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^^^^
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

As a former region chief of staff, I've seen more than a couple of hospitality rooms and seen members stagger out (not all, but some). I don't drink, so after talking to a few folks, I usually excuse myself and go see what the cadets are doing.  They usually are out in the hallway somewhere just socializing, rolling their eyes at the occasional SM who staggers by.

Kind of my POV.  I don't drink either, knocked that off 10+ years ago, but if others want to legally do so, and within the bounds of CAP regulation, I'm not going to say anything.

However, I really don't think that cadets should have to see SM's staggering from "drink taken."  I believe it undermines the authority of an SM of whatever rank, not to mention setting a very poor example.

[Spike]

If you are on meds legitimately prescribed by an M.D., D.O., Physician's Assistant or Nurse Practitioner (let me know if I've left any out), first of all, it needs to be on your Form 60.  CYA.

It does?  Can you point me toward the regulation that says I have to disclose my Viagra?

I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not a police officer, just a CAP member putting in my $.02, and part of that (putting on former DDRO hat) is that anyone with a drug conviction, no matter for what, has no business being around a CAP activity, period.

Wow.....so the lady that took an allergy pill and was charged with "driving under the influence" by the courts when she fell asleep and wrecked her car should not be in CAP??

Yes the lady made a mistake, but it was unintentional.  She did not smoke crack and then wreck her car. 

I think she would deserve a clean slate.  Don't you?? 

[SarDragon]

If you are on meds legitimately prescribed by an M.D., D.O., Physician's Assistant or Nurse Practitioner (let me know if I've left any out), first of all, it needs to be on your Form 60.  CYA.

It does?  Can you point me toward the regulation that says I have to disclose my Viagra?

You're very foolish not to. If you ever have a heart problem that results in an ER trip, it will be VERY beneficial for your doctor to know that you take it. It doesn't mix well at all with nitrates.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^What SARDragon said.^

The Form 60 is for your benefit.  We have a family friend whose sister's allergy to sulfa killed her, because the doctor did not know of the allergy.  If you have to be seen by a doctor, believe me, the doc is going to want to have as much information to hand as s/he can, and that includes your meds.  I thoroughly doubt the doc is going to care about your Viagra, except in a clinical sense.

On the original topic:

If you are indeed talking about someone taking allergy meds and charged/convicted of DWI, that is a different kettle of fish to someone arrested, charged, and convicted of possession of an illegal substance covered under the Controlled Substances Act, as I see it.  My niece's high school expelled a girl for giving a friend a Midol for monthly cramps, which I think is a bit over-the-top.

But I'm not in charge of making the rules for CAP.

If these meds were prescription, the doc/pharmacist would have been required to include warnings on the script bottle warning of side effects.  OTC meds have to carry a similar warning.

But again, the person is not going to know how CAP regards the conviction unless they go through the process.

[Major Lord]

I would love to see a CAP member try to convince the SP's on Travis AFB that their "prescription"  Marijuana, (no doubt issued by a podiatrist for refractory foot fungus) protects them from arrest on a Federal Reservation. How about the specter of SM's taking bong hits at a Wing Conference in front of Cadets?

FYI, Cyborg, a DDS can prescribe controlled substances too.

Major Lord