Misdeamnor Drug Possession Conviction

[Eclipse]

Which part of Federal crime is hard to comprehend?  Just because a state decides to legalize or decriminalize the use of a controlled substance doesn't mean the DEA won't come knocking on your door.

This, in fact, is part of the issue with states doing this on their own.  People have been busted by the feds and dragged away while waiving their state license, and the Supreme Court supports this action.

A few random Googles on the subject...

http://cannabisnews.com/news/12/thread12066.shtml

http://cbs2.com/local/Marijuana.Dispensary.Raid.2.1126004.html

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6550&wtm_format=print

[DBlair]

Do we want someone like that flying a plane or driving a vehicle full of other members? Do we want that sort of person dealing with out Cadets? If he/she was a Cadet, do we want that sort of influence on our Cadets?

On a variety of levels, this person goes against so much that we teach our members. I'd say good riddance, and never look back. We don't need that sort of person in our organization. Zero Tolerance.

[Flying Pig]

By no means am I for it.  I think its  a big scam, however, in CA (which is why it might be a Wing issue) I have let many people go and handed them back their baggy of weed and sent them on their way.  So if its legal in CA, that may be our way out.  Sorry Capt. Toker, Fresno County may say you can do it, but the Feds say you cant. 

Perhaps Wings (states) that have medicinal marijuana laws need to put their Wing Legal Officers to work addressing this.  And to say that they will be to sick to participate in CAP?  Sorry, I know of many people who go about their days using weed in this manner.  So you cant write it off by saying "Oh, they'll be to sick."

[RiverAux]

If they've got the conviction (which is what we're talking about), then they broke somebody's law and it doesn't really matter to CAP whether it was state or federal.  So, even if med MJ is legal in California, if some fed comes along and busts you and gets you convicted in federal court, thats all that we need. 

[Spike]

I teach and try to impress upon young men and women (Cadets) that all drugs, are bad.  How am I supposed to that if (in California) the member next to me is high on Pot??

We are supposed to follow Federal Laws first, State Laws second.  You better believe if I come to knowledge of a Drug User in CAP, I will be the first to break out the 2b.

Now.....do I fully believe in the current drug policies.  Not at all.  Do I think that there may be medicinal uses for some illegal drugs.....absolutely.  HOWEVER, until the Federal Government (FDA) says that the use of certain drugs are now purely medicinal, and decriminalizes them, I will support the current policies. 

If a policy or Law is stupid, it will fail on it's own.  I don't need to push it over the cliff.   

[Major Carrales]

And to say that they will be to sick to participate in CAP?  Sorry, I know of many people who go about their days using weed in this manner.  So you cant write it off by saying "Oh, they'll be to sick."

Sorry, I cannot support that issue.  If one is under the influence of a substance, legal or not, then they are impaired.  We don't let people fly with ear infections or drive when under impaired conditions, including disease, the side-effect of medicine, loss of glasses, cell phone and a myriad of other things , so why should it be any different for people using medicinal canabis?

The logic is not logical.  They are in too much pain to exist without relief (be it morphine or Marijuana), so they self-medicate to effect their pain...yet they can show up to CAP activities that might require driving and alertness. 

It like the insurance fraud victim that is too "ill" to show up for work due to a disability of ones back, yet they work on their farms, automobile hobby and other more strenuous activities.  Every hear about what they do to those...it not a pat on the hand.

Oh...and one last thing.  Alcohol is legal for consumption...yet if a person shows up smashed to a CAP activity I think it is safe to say a 2b is in order.  Under the influence, be it for medical or personal resources is an impairment.  It is a case of the wrong time/place versus the correct set.

[afgeo4]

By no means am I for it.  I think its  a big scam, however, in CA (which is why it might be a Wing issue) I have let many people go and handed them back their baggy of weed and sent them on their way.  So if its legal in CA, that may be our way out.  Sorry Capt. Toker, Fresno County may say you can do it, but the Feds say you cant. 

Perhaps Wings (states) that have medicinal marijuana laws need to put their Wing Legal Officers to work addressing this.  And to say that they will be to sick to participate in CAP?  Sorry, I know of many people who go about their days using weed in this manner.  So you cant write it off by saying "Oh, they'll be to sick."

Mr Flying Pig,

Legal jurisdiction is not the same as law enforcement jurisdiction. Federal law ALWAYS supersedes state and/or local law. States can legalize whatever they want, but the use of Marijuana is still illegal in this country. You can push county/state rights all you want, but there's such a thing called U.S. Constitution.

[PHall]

By no means am I for it.  I think its  a big scam, however, in CA (which is why it might be a Wing issue) I have let many people go and handed them back their baggy of weed and sent them on their way.  So if its legal in CA, that may be our way out.  Sorry Capt. Toker, Fresno County may say you can do it, but the Feds say you cant. 

Perhaps Wings (states) that have medicinal marijuana laws need to put their Wing Legal Officers to work addressing this.  And to say that they will be to sick to participate in CAP?  Sorry, I know of many people who go about their days using weed in this manner.  So you cant write it off by saying "Oh, they'll be to sick."

Mr Flying Pig,

Legal jurisdiction is not the same as law enforcement jurisdiction. Federal law ALWAYS supersedes state and/or local law. States can legalize whatever they want, but the use of Marijuana is still illegal in this country. You can push county/state rights all you want, but there's such a thing called U.S. Constitution.

He's not ignoring the Federal Law, he's doing what the DA and the Judge tells him to do.

[cap235629]

Legal jurisdiction is not the same as law enforcement jurisdiction. Federal law ALWAYS supersedes state and/or local law. States can legalize whatever they want, but the use of Marijuana is still illegal in this country. You can push county/state rights all you want, but there's such a thing called U.S. Constitution.

You had better read that Constitution again.  Specifically the 10th Amendment.  NOWHERE in the Constitution does it say Federal Law ALWAYS supersedes state and/or local law.  It is actually the contrary.

[Ned]

Legal jurisdiction is not the same as law enforcement jurisdiction.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

In a given case, a court/government either has jurisdiction (the power to try a case) or not.

I've never heard of a difference between "legal" and "law enforcement" jurisdiction.

Federal law ALWAYS supersedes state and/or local law.

Usually, but not always.  Remember, Federal jurisdiction is only proper where permitted by the Consititution.  Which is why 99% of what we normally consider "criminal law" is exclusively a state concern. 

Normally there has to be some sort of Federal "connection" for the feds to have the ability to legislate in the area.  It's usually something that affects multiple states (like kdnapping across state lines or unlawful flight to avoid prosecution across state lines).

Until the Supreme Court clarified the matter in a 6-3 decision (Gonzales v. Raich (2005) 545 US 1), there was substantial disagreement as to whether something as purely local as simple possession and use of locally grown marijuana could ever be sunject to Federal jurisdiction.  A divided Court held that it was a proper exercise of the Commerce clause to regulate marijuana, even for medical purposes.

Many scholars believe that it was a bit of stretch to extend the Commerce Clause to cover locally grown marijuana that had never entered interstate commerce.

Indeed, as Justice Thomas wrote:

If the majority is to be taken seriously, the Federal Government may now regulate quilting bees, clothes drives, and potluck suppers throughout the 50 States. This makes a mockery of Madison's assurance to the people of New York that the "powers delegated" to the Federal Government are "few and defined", while those of the States are "numerous and indefinite."

In any event, it is now clear that the Feds can regulate medical marijuana.

But no US Attorney is prosecuting simple possession cases.  They only prosecute growers and trafficers.

It is also worth remembering that our DDR program gnerally does not discourage medicinal use of drugs recommended by physicians.

And not every use of a pain or nausea relieving drug makes the user unable to effectively perform work or operate heavy machinery.

Have you ever driven after taking aspirin?

Back to the OP, misd convictions do not disqualify anyone from CAP membership.  That's what the regulations say, and all of us follow the regulations, don't we?

However, any actions taken by the prospective member - whether illegal or not, prosecuted or not - may be reviewed by the membership committee as part of the normal processing of every application.  Then the committee will make any recommendations they feel appropriate, and the unit commander will make the decision based on the facts and circumstances.

Ned Lee
Former Legal Officer

[SJFedor]

By no means am I for it.  I think its  a big scam, however, in CA (which is why it might be a Wing issue) I have let many people go and handed them back their baggy of weed and sent them on their way.  So if its legal in CA, that may be our way out.  Sorry Capt. Toker, Fresno County may say you can do it, but the Feds say you cant. 

Perhaps Wings (states) that have medicinal marijuana laws need to put their Wing Legal Officers to work addressing this.  And to say that they will be to sick to participate in CAP?  Sorry, I know of many people who go about their days using weed in this manner.  So you cant write it off by saying "Oh, they'll be to sick."

Mr Flying Pig,

Legal jurisdiction is not the same as law enforcement jurisdiction. Federal law ALWAYS supersedes state and/or local law. States can legalize whatever they want, but the use of Marijuana is still illegal in this country. You can push county/state rights all you want, but there's such a thing called U.S. Constitution.

I doubt he requires a reminder of those definitions. He is, after all, a rather experienced law enforcement officer.

[Cecil DP]

Legal jurisdiction is not the same as law enforcement jurisdiction. Federal law ALWAYS supersedes state and/or local law. States can legalize whatever they want, but the use of Marijuana is still illegal in this country. You can push county/state rights all you want, but there's such a thing called U.S. Constitution.

You had better read that Constitution again.  Specifically the 10th Amendment.  NOWHERE in the Constitution does it say Federal Law ALWAYS supersedes state and/or local law.  It is actually the contrary.

To paraphrase the 10th Amendment. Any rights(powers) not reserved in the Constitution for the federal government devolve to the states.

[N Harmon]

You had better read that Constitution again.  Specifically the 10th Amendment.  NOWHERE in the Constitution does it say Federal Law ALWAYS supersedes state and/or local law.  It is actually the contrary.

And you may want to read it again as well. Pay particular attention to article 6, paragraph 2, otherwise known as the supremacy clause. Because it actually does say that.

[Flying Pig]

Legal Jurisdiction and Law Enforcement Jurisdiction?  I guess I missed that day at the academy. 

You guys are taking this all wrong.  The use of medicinal marijuana in CA is not illegal. The feds are not prosecuting users.  They only prosecute traffickers and growers who are going overboard.
If your within the guidelines, your solid. (unfortunately) Believe me, Ive done my share of fighting the war on drugs.
Ive been on a task force and have been with DEA agents when we have gone to houses with allegations.  The people let us count their plants, we looked at their paperwork, and we left.  Its not turning a blind eye to it as some suggested.  I dont have the ability to walk around and enforce the law as I see fit.  We have directives from DA's out here regarding whats accepted and what isnt.
And no, the DEA guy didnt slap the cuffs on anyone.  Unlike Hollywood, the Feds dont just walk in and flash their badges and take over a scene. If you dont think use of weed in CA for medical purposes isnt legal, please feel free to come out here and talk to the various District Attorney's.  When I said Ive handed people back their baggy of weed and sent them on their way, that wasnt me making some protest, there was no legal grounds for an arrest. So he gets his stuff back.

During CAMP season, Ive located many grows. Only to find out later they were carded.  Have a nice day and walk away.  The DEA isn't standing in line to prosecute any of them because its a local issue. 

The discussion I was interested in wasnt people coming on and tapping out what they thought the cops should do.  You can be arrested for PC647f Public Intoxication if you are stoned and out in public.  However, to be arrested you need to show you cant take care of yourself.   You also cannot drive within 8 hrs of using medicinal marijuana.   So as a scenario, again, lets say we have a seasoned member who has been around a while who decides he needs it.  He gets a card and hes living the dream.  Do we 2b him/her out?  Trust me, like all of you, Ive met some nut jobs in CAP who I would put this above.  I think it would be a prudent idea for CAP to make up a directive.  If your in a Wing that doesnt recognize weed as a medicine your lucky.  But if you are, it could someday be an issue.

[Eclipse]

The lack of will of a DA to prosecute a crime, for whatever reason, does not make that behavior "legal".

With that said, I wouldn't begin to argue your knowledge over local politics and law enforcement over mine, nor forget to offer you sympathy over an untenable position.

[Cato the Younger]

So I just found out there is more to the story. Here is what I have been told. Consider this now:

A senior member is a staff member at a cadet activity. The senior member brings marijuana and it is not for medical use, strictly recreational. The senior member is caught by police authorities with the use of a K-9 and issued a citation.

Senior member is a relative of the wing commander. The wing commander immediately accepts the resignation of the senior member so the wing commander does not have to terminate the senior member's membership. This way the senior member can rejoin CAP again after everything blows over and the wing commander can claim that all this happened when the senior member was not a member since the conviction technically happen after the resignation. Now the senior member is back in CAP as a squadron commander.

[Flying Pig]

OUCH.  Thats ugly.  If he is in as a Sq. Commander, I would assume he has been back in for a while or did he immediately step in as CC?

[EMT-83]

I don't understand the purpose of this thread.

You have facts presented to you second, or third, or fourth-hand. If there is someone with reliable information who chooses to initiate an IG investigation, fine. Otherwise, what's the point?

[Hawk200]

So I just found out there is more to the story. Here is what I have been told. Consider this now:

A senior member is a staff member at a cadet activity. The senior member brings marijuana and it is not for medical use, strictly recreational. The senior member is caught by police authorities with the use of a K-9 and issued a citation.

Senior member is a relative of the wing commander. The wing commander immediately accepts the resignation of the senior member so the wing commander does not have to terminate the senior member's membership. This way the senior member can rejoin CAP again after everything blows over and the wing commander can claim that all this happened when the senior member was not a member since the conviction technically happen after the resignation. Now the senior member is back in CAP as a squadron commander.

Sounds like both Wing CC, and the member need to get canned. One committed a crime on our time, the other covered it up.

I know there are cases where people got wrongly railroaded, but this doesn't appear to be one of them. (Key word being appear)

[Cato the Younger]

I don't understand the purpose of this thread. Otherwise, what's the point?

The purpose of the thread is to engage in a discussion of a topic of interest. I looked through the regulations and could find no fault with the situation. However, this just seems to run contrary to the intent of the regulations, policies and purpose of our programs. I believe it exposes a loop hole in the regualtions and a laspe of judgement of people in leadership.