Can a person with an Other Than Honarble discharge join CAP?

[JAH1967]

Hello,

I am new to the forum and thank you for accepting me. I have a sincere desire to join CAP and would like to apply my skills in management, finance and life wherever applicable. However, I have an OTH discharge from the US Navy in 1987 for a mistake I made at the age of 19 and have regreted for the rest of my life. I have been married for 28 years to the same woman, raised 2 successful daughters and have had a successful corporate career in finance, I am a Vice President in my company of 11 years. I have never been arrested since being dishcarged, no DUI's, no sexual offenses, child abuse or spousal battery etc. I've lead a clean and productive life.

So my question is, will having this OTH dicharge hinder my oportunity to join CAP? Is a waiver needed and what will I need to do to obtain said waiver? Will it hinder my oportunity in the future in CAP to assume roles of leadership?

[arajca]

Per CAPR 39-2, Membership, A waiver would be required from the Chief Operating Officer and/or National Commander.

d. Suitability. Subject to being waived by the Chief Operating Officer and/or National Commander, as noted below, any one of the following may be the basis for rejection of membership.
(1) Conviction of a felony by any court of record whether federal, state or military. (Requires both Chief Operating Officer and National Commander concurrence to accept as member.)
(2) A pattern of arrests and/or convictions including but not limited to sex offenses, child abuse, DUIs, dishonesty and violence.
(3) Discharge from the armed services under other than honorable conditions.
<snip>

[a2capt]

Declare it, provide information, submit the application. Move on. It will work through the system. It just may take a bit longer than a typical application.

[JAH1967]

Thank you both gentlemen for your response. a2capt I will follow your advice and proceed from there.

[Garibaldi]

Better to be up front than having someone find out the hard way. I have an ELS DD-214 and am very upfront about my lack of military service. It could be classed as Other Than Honorable even thought I didn't have enough service.

[MSG Mac]

ELS?

[LSThiker]

ELS?

Entry Level Separation.  It is for people with less than 180 days of military service.  Basically, it is the commander stating that I did not have enough time to adequately evaluate this person as good, bad, or otherwise.  It is the commander separating someone and remaining neutral. 

ELSs are not classified as honorable, general, or other than honorable.  It is its own classification. 

[jimmydeanno]

What usually happens in these types of cases, where a "waiver" of some sort is needed is that you end up submitted an explanation of the circumstances behind your OTH/Arrest/Conviction and then get your future commander to write something that attests to his recommendation for your membership despite having something in your history that might be looked at unfavorably.  Send all that stuff with the application, fingerprint card, and [most importantly] your check.  From there it is a waiting game. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

ELS?

Entry Level Separation.  It is for people with less than 180 days of military service.  Basically, it is the commander stating that I did not have enough time to adequately evaluate this person as good, bad, or otherwise.  It is the commander separating someone and remaining neutral. 

ELSs are not classified as honorable, general, or other than honorable.  It is its own classification.

It's like a "neutral" classification.  It happens a lot to people who couldn't make it through their service's basic training for whatever reasons not disciplinary-related.

[MSG Mac]

If it's been over 25 years with no record afterwards you should be good. I would also include character reference from a community leader in the package.

[JAH1967]

Again, thank you all for sahring your views and suggestions.

To MSG Mac, you mention to get a character reference from a community leader, wuld that need to be a government official? I was a community leader in 2012 whne I sered as Worshipful Master of my Freemason Lodge in Florida. We did some fundraisers and voluteered at the local food bank etc. I was also made a Kentucky Colonel as a result of al those effort as a sign of recognition.

I also have a a fellow Freemason who is a Captain in the CAP who is writing me a letter of refference for the Squadron Commander. Would that be of any help?

[Angus]

Again, thank you all for sahring your views and suggestions.

To MSG Mac, you mention to get a character reference from a community leader, wuld that need to be a government official? I was a community leader in 2012 whne I sered as Worshipful Master of my Freemason Lodge in Florida. We did some fundraisers and voluteered at the local food bank etc. I was also made a Kentucky Colonel as a result of al those effort as a sign of recognition.

I also have a a fellow Freemason who is a Captain in the CAP who is writing me a letter of refference for the Squadron Commander. Would that be of any help?

That letter should cover it, since he's a member of both it does show good faith in you.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I also have a a fellow Freemason who is a Captain in the CAP who is writing me a letter of refference for the Squadron Commander. Would that be of any help?

My father-in-law was a (I think) 32nd Degree Mason.  Most communities look on involvement in charitable organisations like Masons, Shriners, Moose (my dad was a 50+ year Moose), Elks, etc. kindly, and with your Masonic friend/CAP Captain being willing to write you a letter of reference...it certainly wouldn't hurt!

[Private Investigator]

I have a sincere desire to join CAP and would like to apply my skills in management, finance and life wherever applicable. ...

Do you know how to fly a plane? Mentor the youth? Aerospace Education guru? I can guess whatever Squadron you want to join will need either a Public Affairs Officer and/or a Supply Officer. So what do you see yourself doing?

Anyways it is a lot of fun for some and for others it does not live up to the hype or some people's expectations. So have fun .. 

[SARDOC]

Better to be up front than having someone find out the hard way. I have an ELS DD-214 and am very upfront about my lack of military service. It could be classed as Other Than Honorable even thought I didn't have enough service.

The Entry Level Separation is not an "other than honorable" discharge.  It should be made out as "uncharacterized"  This is usually done within the first six months for discharges done at the Convenience of the Government.

[ColonelJack]

Better to be up front than having someone find out the hard way. I have an ELS DD-214 and am very upfront about my lack of military service. It could be classed as Other Than Honorable even thought I didn't have enough service.

The Entry Level Separation is not an "other than honorable" discharge.  It should be made out as "uncharacterized"  This is usually done within the first six months for discharges done at the Convenience of the Government.

My, how times have changed.  When I was separated from the AF in 1975, I had seven weeks of service ... far short of the 180-day threshold ... yet I have an Honorable Discharge. 

Jack

[FlyTiger77]

Better to be up front than having someone find out the hard way. I have an ELS DD-214 and am very upfront about my lack of military service. It could be classed as Other Than Honorable even thought I didn't have enough service.

The Entry Level Separation is not an "other than honorable" discharge.  It should be made out as "uncharacterized"  This is usually done within the first six months for discharges done at the Convenience of the Government.

My, how times have changed.  When I was separated from the AF in 1975, I had seven weeks of service ... far short of the 180-day threshold ... yet I have an Honorable Discharge. 

Jack

A DD93 is issued for an active duty period of 90 days or greater. A DD220 is used to report periods less than 90 days. An ELS is a neutral way of discharging individuals early in their period of service. If they have served greater than 90 days at the time of discharge, they will be issued a DD93.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

In the case of Guard personnel, they can get a DD214 with an ELS (example: not making it through basic training), but since their state is the final discharging authority, they can get an NGB22 with an "Honorable Conditions" discharge.  I've seen them.

Which begs the question I've heard more than once:

In the Air Force, you have to complete BMT to earn the AF Training Ribbon, and depending on your dates of service, you also get the NDSM.

However, completing BMT is not a requirement for the NDSM...so do those who get an ELS/NGB22 Honorable Conditions qualify for the NDSM?

[SarDragon]

From Wikipedia:

There is no time requirement for the medal's issuance, meaning that someone who joins the military for simply a few days, and then receives an entry level discharge, would technically be entitled to the NDSM; in practice, however, military clerks will not add the NDSM on a DD Form 214 if the service member performed duty for less than 90 days from the completion of their initial entry training. This accounts for the medal's omission from a large number of "uncharacterized" and "entry level" separation documents. Veterans who have this medal so omitted may apply to the military service departments to have the NDSM added to records via a DD Form 215.

SECNAVINST 1650.1H, Army Regulation 600–8–22 and NDSM AFPC Fact Sheet show no minimum time requirements.

[The14th]

If you get an ELS, who cares if you got a NDSM?