Screening out the poseurs and fakers.

[BillB]

NCRBlues ..  You at least show the National Defense ribbon on your 214. Mine doesn't. mainly because I was discharged prior to the award being defined. I qualifed, and USAF sent me the medal and ribbon. But several awards I did get prior to dischareg are not on the 214, so normally i don't wear them (aircrew wings, good conduct and army good conduct. ) I have paerwork on all but as I said they are not on the DD214.

[NCRblues]

NCRBlues ..  You at least show the National Defense ribbon on your 214. Mine doesn't. mainly because I was discharged prior to the award being defined. I qualifed, and USAF sent me the medal and ribbon. But several awards I did get prior to dischareg are not on the 214, so normally i don't wear them (aircrew wings, good conduct and army good conduct. ) I have paerwork on all but as I said they are not on the DD214.

Well, when i got my 214 after outprocessing, it showed ZERO awards...nothing...notta....

So i went back to the base i did TAPS at, and they didn't even blink an eye. They said it happens all the time. I got my first 215 after that.... it had on my overseas short tour ribbon and that was all....

So 3 trips and many phone calls later, i have my good conduct, overseas short, expert marksmen with bronze star, national defence, GWOT... Missing several still, but its a work in progress...have orders or certificates for everyone...but still...i want a proper 214/215

[RVT]

I also believe we should approach this with a little bit of caution as well. I am a big supporter of screening 214's for awards, but i am anti SMWOG Joe blow coming up to me at wing conference and demanding to see my 214 because I have on my national defense ribbon.

I haven't been to a CAP wing conference yet, but I would really hope that stuff like that doesn't happen.

The kind of person who does that isn't going to take "I'm not taking it off and I'm not showing you proof" as an answer either, and it will only go down hill from there.

[AirDX]

As for informaiton in unguarded CAP files......if you want to play....then you have to answer truthfully and provide all information.  If you don't....then thanks for playing.

Don't get attitudinal.  I have no problem providing info for a legitimate purpose.  But there are any number of CAP units around where I could walk in the door in a uniform, walk to the file cabinet, and grab a double fistful of of member's files and walk on out the door without question.  Everything you need for identity theft (and more).  If you start adding unnecessary PII like -214s and whatever else the nazis here are dreaming about, it's all the better.

[AirDX]

And yes, we should be asking for proof of high school graduation as well.  Though to be honest it never occurred to me to do so when I was in a position to do so.

To what possible end?  I joined CAP two years ago at the age of 53, and what possible relevance does high school have for me?

I'd have a hard time turning up a HS diploma anyway.  I think I still have it.

[Eclipse]

And yes, we should be asking for proof of high school graduation as well.  Though to be honest it never occurred to me to do so when I was in a position to do so.

To what possible end?  I joined CAP two years ago at the age of 53, and what possible relevance does high school have for me?

A high school diploma is a requirement to be appointed to CAP Officer grades.

I also believe we should approach this with a little bit of caution as well. I am a big supporter of screening 214's for awards, but i am anti SMWOG Joe blow coming up to me at wing conference and demanding to see my 214 because I have on my national defense ribbon.

I think we need to make it clear that commanders/IG's/membership boards, get to ask for the paperwork....not 2nd Lt bagOnuts who happens to be in the same room as you once a year. Just saying, i think we might lose people if their integrity is called into question at every single CAP event. Prove it to your chain of command and move on, update when need be.

I agree 100%.

When I see a uniform issue, or an unusual decoration, I address it discreetly and professionally - sometimes I will send a note to the person's commander instead of making a issue of it in public, but these members who feel they have the random right to walk up to other members with their finger stuck out saying "you can't wear that", or "prove to me you've earned that", need to be disciplined themselves. It's one thing when a commander addresses one of his subordinates, but fully another when "some guy" is dressing down "some other guy" in public right after shaking hands and saying "hello".

With at least 7 uniformed services in the mix, plus our own ambiguous, self-conflicting regulations, not to mention the unevenness of how decs are awarded both in the military and in CAP, there's a whole lot of room between "misunderstanding / difficult to validate" & "Stolen Valor", not to mention
that few people quietly slip in a fake Training Ribbon or Good Conduct Medal, instead opting for stuff that stands out to anyone like the Medal of Honor or the ever present Trident.

I'd double that for cadets, who in most cases are acting on the misunderstanding of their commander(s), and / or have unusual situations as they do Guard or Reserve service and start having "weird" ribbons growing in their racks.

In the end though, if we're going to continue to allow military decorations and badges to be worn, then they should be fully substantiated, and if you
can't back it up, leave it in the shadow box.  Anything less is a dereliction of duty by the commander allowing it to be worn.

[Jill]

A high school diploma is a requirement to be appointed to CAP Officer grades.

Point out the regs for that.

[Eclipse]

A high school diploma is a requirement to be appointed to CAP Officer grades.

Point out the regs for that.

CAPR 35-5 1-6b

1-6. Minimum Eligibility Requirements.   To qualify for initial appointment to CAP officer
grade, senior members must meet the following minimum requirements:

a. Be at least 21 years of age.

b. Be a high school graduate (or educational equivalent).

c. Complete Level I of the Senior Member Professional Development Program (see
CAPR 50-17).  NOTE:  Former members who have completed Level I training and have less
than a 2 year membership break and former cadets who have earned the General Billy Mitchell
Award,  or higher, and have less than a 2 year membership break are exempt from  the
Foundations portion of Level I training.

d. Be recommended for promotion by the unit commander.

[davidsinn]

A high school diploma is a requirement to be appointed to CAP Officer grades.

Point out the regs for that.

R35-5

2-1. Eligibility Requirements.
a. General Requirements. To be considered for this type promotion, the member must:
(1) Be at least 21 years of age.
(2) Be a high school graduate (or educational equivalent).
(3) Complete Level I of the Senior Member Professional Development Program.
(4) Be performing in an exemplary manner meriting promotion to the grade recommended.
(5) Be recommended by immediate superior and unit commander.

[SarDragon]

Guess that says it all, twice.

[Eclipse]

Guess that says it all, twice.

Heh, Sinn and I were tripping over each other to get the first response.  Good thing it was a double door or someone might have gotten hurt!

[davidsinn]

Guess that says it all, twice.

Heh, Sinn and I were tripping over each other to get the first response.  Good thing it was a double door or someone might have gotten hurt!

Yeah me  You're called Eclipse for a reason....


Funny thing is we quoted the same reg but different chapters.

[SarDragon]

Guess that says it all, twice.

Heh, Sinn and I were tripping over each other to get the first response.  Good thing it was a double door or someone might have gotten hurt!

Yeah me  You're called Eclipse for a reason....


Funny thing is we quoted the same reg but different chapters.

Bob's trumps yours, though. His comes first in the pub, and has a greater scope.

[davidsinn]

Guess that says it all, twice.

Heh, Sinn and I were tripping over each other to get the first response.  Good thing it was a double door or someone might have gotten hurt!

Yeah me  You're called Eclipse for a reason....


Funny thing is we quoted the same reg but different chapters.

Bob's trumps yours, though. His comes first in the pub, and has a greater scope.

True. Mine was specifically for 2d Lt.

[Hawk200]

But several awards I did get prior to dischareg are not on the 214, so normally i don't wear them (aircrew wings, good conduct and army good conduct. ) I have paerwork on all but as I said they are not on the DD214.

Doesn't have to be on the 214, you just need some kind of valid paperwork to show it's authorized for you. I joined CAP before I had even reenlisted. My commander asked for a RIP on my decs, so I got one. She added it, everything was good.

A DD214 isn't the only way to prove that you have something. If you want to wear your wings, GC, and AGC, just bring in the paperwork showing it.

[Stonewall]

As someone who spent 7 years in Army SF I was almost disappointed to discover that at 38% of all fakes reported, Seals were faked more than Green berets by a factor of 2 to 1.

Meh, I changed it.  Was going to post a pic of a CAP poseur who said he was a SEAL, but it's old news.

Yeah, people pose as SEALs a lot more often than other special operations types.

[lordmonar]

Seals had a more receint movie.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I have usually found that the more lofty the claim for the medal/rank/other appurtenance, and the more "look at me" hot gas expended in such a claim, the higher the potential Bravo Sierra content.

It's not just us...this RAAF Cadet Wing Commander (equivalent to Lieutenant Colonel in CAP) is wearing a bunch o'gongs that he isn't entitled to, many of which are American, not Australian/Commonwealth.  He also isn't entitled to those Aussie pilot wings.

http://www.anzmi.net/bain/bainallawards.jpg

[NIN]

If you start adding unnecessary PII like -214s and whatever else the nazis here are dreaming about, it's all the better.

Wow. I'm glad you cleared that up. Per Godwin's Law, this discussion is now over.