Why aren't Region commanders Brigadiers?

[RVT]

I may be opening a can of worms with this - but its been nagging me for awhile, so I'll ask.

Their present rank made sense when the National Commander was a 1 star.  But when the National commander position went to a 2 star, why didn't Region commanders move up as well?

They command wings led by full Colonels.  Their deputy commanders can be full colonels.  Often they have several full Colonels on staff as well (mine has six).  And they report to a Major General.

I'm curious.  Why?  And if theres a good reason why not, why does the National Commander need to have two stars?

[lordmonar]

Short answer.....because.

Long answer.....the politics needed to bump the National CC up to two stars was long and arduous...and a lot of people think unnecessary.

Moving to bump the regional commanders to one star positions would create a lot of back lash in the CAP hater community.

I for one think it makes a lot of sense...as you point out the National CC is two stars and the wing commanders are Bird Colenels....it only makes sense that the regional CC's should be on stars....but it ain't gonna happen soon.

[High Speed Low Drag]

I have to admit that I have often wondered the same thing.  I think it should be like that.

   Just remembered I wrote a post about that.   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=9521.msg172635#msg172635

[raivo]

Yes, logically speaking, if the National Commander is a two-star and the wing commanders are full-birds, then region commanders should be one-stars. Practically speaking, it doesn't make a difference. We survived long enough with the National Commander being the only upper-echelon commander above full-bird, which brings me to this question:

why does the National Commander need to have two stars?

He doesn't. Just keep in mind who was National Commander when the two-star "promotion" happened.

[lordmonar]

Maj General Bowling?

[FW]

  The reason there is a "2 star" at the top of the command chain is in the way we handled our affairs after the attacks on the World Trade Center and, the months which followed.  The CSAF and SECAF were so impressed, we were awarded the privilege of the current grades. However, because CAP members rarely "retire", the privilege was not extended down to Region Commanders; insuring there would not be 100's of stars wandering around the CAP (and AF) universe.

Anyway, they weren't offering a pay raise with the promotion....

[Flying Pig]

It has nothing to do with 9/11.  We've had Maj General since I was a cadet. It was started with Eugene Harwell.

[RiverAux]

I think that just based on membership numbers (in addition to the other reasons named), a star for region commanders would be appropriate.  They command somewhere between 3000-9000 people depending on the region.  And given the overall CAP membership two stars for the national commander is more than appropriate, if not possibly a little on the low side. 

On the other hand, CAP region commanders have very little authority to do much of anything.  Its not like they are really commanding all those people on a day to day basis in an operational sense and for the most part don't really command them administratively either.  So, Colonel might be ok. 

[High Speed Low Drag]

  The reason there is a "2 star" at the top of the command chain is in the way we handled our affairs after the attacks on the World Trade Center and, the months which followed.  The CSAF and SECAF were so impressed, we were awarded the privilege of the current grades. However, because CAP members rarely "retire", the privilege was not extended down to Region Commanders; insuring there would not be 100's of stars wandering around the CAP (and AF) universe.

Anyway, they weren't offering a pay raise with the promotion....

That's why I think Region Commanders should be temporary BGs.  When they step down, they revert to their permanent grade of Col.  Unlike Nat/CC, Region Commanders haven't been elected by the NB, so the rank is only temp.  While they are in office, they are clearly in command, but once removed, they go back to general membership.  Fo the bling people, the NEC badge can be a permanent badge showing their service.

[FW]

It has nothing to do with 9/11.  We've had Maj General since I was a cadet. It was started with Eugene Harwell.

Maj General Harwell was the reason we ended up with Maroon epaulets.  His "promotion" was not sanctified by the Air Force and, was never recognized as such.  You see, Robert, the Air Force has total control of our grades.

Believe it or not, the reasons behind our current grade structure; I've stated above.  It has everything to do with our professionalism during that period in our history.  It is also the main reason Maj Gen Bowling was elected and installed to our "Hall of Honor".

Remember, gentlemen, CAP grade has no relevance to the Military's.  Colonels are corporate officers (but, for very few exceptions).  There is really no higher grade than that of a corporate officer in CAP except for the National Commander and National Vice Commander who also serve as members of the Board of Governors.

Oh, and former NEC members (and NB members) already have the privilege of wearing their respective badges as "bling".
Now back to our conversation...

[Eclipse]

It has nothing to do with 9/11.  We've had Maj General since I was a cadet. It was started with by Eugene Harwell.

Heh - fixed that fer 'ya...

General(s) Barry, (Aug 1990-Aug 1993), Anderson, (Aug 1993-Aug 1996), Bergman (Aug 1996-Mar 1998), and Bobick (Mar 1998-Aug 2001), were (and still are), Brigadiers.

[FW]

^and until 2002, Bowling had 1 star as CAP/cc.

[raivo]

Apparently I have my National Commanders mixed up...

Sorry, I'm getting old, my memory's not what it used to be. :x

[arajca]

IIRC, Harwell's promotion plan was to give the region cc's one star, until the AF's head exploded when he got his second star.

I believe this was addressed at a recent NB or NEC meeting since the proposal had been tabled in 1999/2000 to be brought back in 2009/2010 for action. It died without a second.

[Cecil DP]

Don't forget that the Air Force has control of CAP General Grades. Even if CAP proposed BG for Region Commanders, the AF could shoot it down, if the BofG doesn't beat them to it. I think we should instead be considering Colonel for those who attain the Wilson Award and are active members.

[Al Sayre]

We need to put it to them in a more practical manner.

"If you make the CAP Region CC's 1 stars, just think of all the rubber chicken dinners you can avoid by sending them instead..." 

[Flying Pig]

So basically we want a symbol to denote that you are a region commander. We have that.  A ribbon and a Badge.  Since the star really means nothing other than to denote your position in CAP and it goes away after your done, then really who cares. 

[SARDOC]

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/l/blchancommand.htm

Check out the link above.  If you want to make it comparable ...maybe the National Commander should have at least three stars.  The Region commanders should have one star.   
I know it's not important as far as pay is concerned, but it's emblematic of their authority and experience.  Just food for thought.

[PHall]

Of course, there's another question. Do we really need Regions? What purpose do they serve today?

[FlyTiger77]

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/l/blchancommand.htm

Check out the link above.  If you want to make it comparable ...maybe the National Commander should have at least three stars.  The Region commanders should have one star.   
I know it's not important as far as pay is concerned, but it's emblematic of their authority and experience.  Just food for thought.

I find it interesting to note that you chose an Army-centric reference to justify a change in the grade structure of the USAF Auxiliary.

Personally, harking back to a comment I have made before, grade in CAP means what grade in CAP means and comparison between that and the military is problematic at best.