Do cadets in ROTC or Active Duty, Reserves, or Guard outrank all cadets?

[dmac]

Army WO (Warrant Officer) candidates are paid at the E5 rate for, I would imagine, ease of pay status and tracking at finance office

Cadet in ROTC ...same  as above

If one fail or does not complete the WO or Officer track it reverts to E5.....guess it's a reward for at least attempting either.

Addressed as Cadet or Candidate but no status as flyboy indicated.

Nonetheless these folks volunteered just like CAP folks do and at the very least ought to get respect as CAP members would expect...greeting of the day or whatever.  But at least ROTC, ARNG, and Reserve duty is as important or more so than any CAP type activity.  This folks whether they make officer status or not....still volunteered  to a liiiiiiitle more than CAP expects of its people

CAP..........once again hung up outranking and trivial matters

Yep, CAP as an organization is at fault because someone asked a question. I get the impression that you don't like CAP all that well.

[heliodoc]

Liking or disliking CAP has nothing to do with it

Apparently CAP hasn't written down fast and hard about how to address these type of situations in CLC SLS or UCC courses

Either I was asleep during all of 'em or there isn't ENOUGH info in CAP to help the new folks out on how to address this / these situations

Yeah I dislike CAP that why I PAID another 110 dinero for the privelege and am doing quite well in the Squadron of my choice and "Performing Missions for America."

Gimme my cookie!

[AirAux]

heliodoc, I had a buddy that washed out of WOC training and was made an E-1..  As far as I know, if one washes out of WOC training, they revert back to their prior rating..

[Short Field]

Apparently CAP hasn't written down fast and hard about how to address these type of situations in CLC SLS or UCC courses
Either I was asleep during all of 'em or there isn't ENOUGH info in CAP to help the new folks out on how to address this / these situations

If you attempted to cover all of the "these type of situations" in CAP courses and regulations, the regs would be so thick no one would read them and the courses so long and boring no one would attend.   

The OP's problem would have been quickly resolved if the CADET had been told to go home and change into a CAP uniform.  The only disrespect being shown was from the CADET who wore another program's uniform to a CAP meeting. 

[dmac]

heliodoc, I had a buddy that washed out of WOC training and was made an E-1..  As far as I know, if one washes out of WOC training, they revert back to their prior rating..

I had a buddy in AIT who washed out of OCS and he was a PFC. I believe you revert to your last grade held prior to admission to OCS/WOC/SMP. If you were straight ROTC, you would probably have to enlist and would be eligible for advance rank you could qualify for based on each individual situation.

Heliodoc, thanks for your service in CAP, I just sometimes get the message that you are not real fond of our organization and its members as a whole.

[heliodoc]

Short Field

I understand it would be so thick, it would exceed any FAR AIM and CFR's out there

Yep you are right.  Change into the proper uniform.  I see it at the Sqdn I am in...its an ego thing for some of these kids and while they are in the cadet program they ought to be seeing that in their own cadet program materials and the forever argument of Sqdn CC enforcing it....well you approach a cadet nowadays and you'll get some smart mouth answer form some of them

If they are old enough to sign up for ROTC and the rest of the services then those "mature" cadets ought to know the difference without SM reminders...but its all about them and in turn sometime the CAP Senior Membership suffers from previous cadet experiences about uniform wear

Maybe CAP needs a Sqdn meeting night gate guard.  No CAP uni at the meeting?  You get to go home

Yeah see how long that lasts....you'll have more parents angry at CAP than any PTA meeting I have attended with my wife in previous years of her teaching

CAP.........Training  ELD's (Everyone Liitle Darlings) to do the right thing and sometimes coming up short due to the members inattention to detail!!!

[Cecil DP]

Army WO (Warrant Officer) candidates are paid at the E5 rate for, I would imagine, ease of pay status and tracking at finance office

Cadet in ROTC ...same  as above

If one fail or does not complete the WO or Officer track it reverts to E5.....guess it's a reward for at least attempting either.

CAP..........once again hung up outranking and trivial matters

They actually revert to their previous grade, whether it's an E-1 or E-8. (E-9's would never consider going to the dark side)

[JayT]

Don't let it interfere with the way your squadron is working and this is why. JROTC cadets are on the same level as a CAP Cadet. If a JROTC officer, your cadets need to respect that, et al.

ROTC and Academy cadets are a little different. If the ROTC Cadet isn't under a contract, he's no different than your CAP Cadets. If an ROTC Cadet is under a contract, he has an enlisted rank that will vary by the years he or she has completed in the program. They begin as E-1s.  Somewhere in the process they will progress through E-5 before commissioning. I have known two Air Force Academy cadets that dropped out of the program and then are given the opportunity to enlist. In one case, the guy came in as an airman first class or E-3. In the other, he came in as a E-4 (then sergeant).

The bottom line is that they are enlisted people. They don't out rank everyone. Cadets need to respect cadet officers, but there's no protocol that makes them better or gives them greater status than a CAP Cadet or senior member officer.

Make them show you their ID Card or contract.

I would, however, strongly encourage that individual to transition to senior member status.

A ROTC or Academy Cadet is a CADET! The ROTC and Academy personnel are "Officer Candidates", until commissioned or dropping out of the program(s) The fact that some of their training may equate to completion of Recruit Training and allow them to enlist as an E-4 or E-3, (rather than pay back their scholorships as required in the contract)  does not make them enlisted.

Somewhere, I have my DOD paperwork from when I resigned my AF Academy appointment. (Someone has to be in the 500 that drop the first summer). My grade was C4C Cadet Fourth Class. Not an E to be seen anywhere.

I've had the experience of a cadet showing up in US Public Health Service (PHS) BDUs w/ 2Lt bars. (PHS commission can be at 18).
As others have said "Cadet, wear your CAP uniform to CAP."

"The members of the Commissioned Corps number over 6,000 officers in numerous professional categories, including physicians, dentists, pharmacists, dietitians, engineers, scientists, environmental health officers, therapists (including physical, occupational, speech, audiology), health services (including social workers, physician assistants, optometrists, statisticians, computer scientists, dental hygienists, medical records administrators, medical technologists and others), veterinarians, and nurses. Chiropractors are not presently included but their nclusion is under discussion."

From wikipedia

How can an organization made up of masters or Ph.D level medical professors comission someone at 18?

[lordmonar]

Okay...

CAP cadets are CAP cadets and nothing else......no matter what their status is any anything else.

It is that simple folks.

[Eclipse]

Maybe CAP needs a Sqdn meeting night gate guard.  No CAP uni at the meeting?  You get to go home

Yeah..um...that's how it already works today, especially for cadets.

[heliodoc]

Mr Eclipse

Cite please

Apparently only where you live.......doesn't happen everywhere unless you know something the rest of us do not....

[Eclipse]

This is called "command responsibility", which from the way you talk about your local units apparently is an issue in your area.

Of course it doesn't happen everywhere, which is part and parcel of the challenges we have in CAP - from your comments above
it appears this exact situation is occurring in your unit.  Are you fixing it or watching it happen and then gnashing teeth about the results?
(Hint:  "My commander won't listen / doesn't care is not an acceptable answer...")

If a commander cannot be troubled to tell members when they are not living up to their responsibilities, then they reap what they sow.

[N Harmon]

I've had the experience of a cadet showing up in US Public Health Service (PHS) BDUs w/ 2Lt bars. (PHS commission can be at 18).

I think those were ensign bars.

Anyway, I agree with the majority. If you're working for CAP, you should be in CAP uniform.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I've had the experience of a cadet showing up in US Public Health Service (PHS) BDUs w/ 2Lt bars. (PHS commission can be at 18).

I think those were ensign bars.

Anyway, I agree with the majority. If you're working for CAP, you should be in CAP uniform.

I must have written  that before the morning coffee took effect.  I know PHS uses Navy grades.

As to the wikipedia entry below. I know he was under 21. I saw his PHS ID w/ Ensign. He probably explained it to me once upon a time, but it's lost in the fog of memory.

[Cecil DP]

If he's accepted a commission in the USPHS, he should be transferred to Senior Membership.
3-6. Regular and Reserve Officers of the Public Health Service Commissioned Corps. Regular and Reserve Officers of the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, whether active or retired, may be promoted to a grade equivalent to their grade in the Commissioned Corps under the same conditions as Regular and Reserve Officers of the Armed Forces (see paragraph 3-4 above).

National Headquarters should approve the exception to the 21 years of age for commissioned officers.

[RiverAux]

Have seen an AD officer do a SAREX in their military uniform.  Have seen a few times where a cadet will come in JROTC uniform.

If they are CAPRAPs its OK, if they are in CAP, change or go home.  I guarantee you that the military does not want their people
performing CAP missions in their uniform.

That would have been my druthers, but I wasn't the guy in charge (he wasn't a CAPRAP by the way).  Have had other AD officers come to meetings in their military uniforms, sometimes justified, sometimes not. 

[Eclipse]

Something lost on our members sometimes is that often someone in the military would need approval of their commanders to
participate in a CAP activity in their military status, and that participation should have the coordination of the State Director as well,
so showing up in a military uniform at a CAP activity "just because" might get the guy in the military in hot water from that perspective.

[raivo]

I've worn my AD uniform to meetings at my old squadron when I'm back home.

Though I wasn't doing ES missions or anything like that.

[lordmonar]

Something lost on our members sometimes is that often someone in the military would need approval of their commanders to
participate in a CAP activity in their military status, and that participation should have the coordination of the State Director as well,
so showing up in a military uniform at a CAP activity "just because" might get the guy in the military in hot water from that perspective.

Sort of.

For military people to act in their military capacity they would need permission from CAP-USAF....not the state directors (they have not military authoity).

Now that is different then someone showing up at CAP acitivities in USAF uniforms.

There are lots of reasons why you would and could do this...that do not require any permission form everyone.

BUT......going out on an ES mission is not one that I would think we would normally approve of.

Having said that....I did an ELT search one day in my USAF uniform.  It was because the initial point was about 2 miles from base, I had the L-PER at our squadron building on base and my home where my uniform was...was 30 minutes away.

I informed the IC, he approved and we pressed on found the source and called the cops (it was in someones garage) and went home.

Flame me if you want. 

[Eclipse]

Flame me if you want. 

Not at all - again, field expediency and the 1-time exception is different from "I can't be bothered."