You guys are going to LOVE this...

[EMT-83]

Let's walk through this:

The original problem occurred when you disagreed with the squadron commanders instructions, and issued your own instructions counter to his.

You then got into a verbal altercation with a member from another squadron regarding the same issue. It doesn't sound like you started the altercation, but you sure did participate.

Now, the wing commander shows up to present an award to the squadron. You decide that this is the time and place to push the issue.

Exactly what did you think was going to happen?

[Майор Хаткевич]

Wow guys, come on now.

Going to "The Wing Commander" may be stepping over the Chain of Command, but this is a VOLUNTEER organization where the CoC has failed to protect a cadet from being hazed/insulted/feel uncomfortable when the cadet was in the RIGHT.

"The Wing Commanders", last time I checked, are human beings. I've spoken to a number of my wing kings over my time as a cadet. None of them bit my head off.

Now, I don't know if EP's wing has groups, but I would have tried to take the situation there first before reaching for the wing commander. Then again, the wing commander was AT HIS UNIT, so he had a rare(ish) chance to speak to a person instead of writing an email.

Back when I was a C/MSgt, we had a squadron commander whom a number of us (cadets) felt was doing us a disservice, and stagnating our cadet development. We hatched a plan to go to the Group Commander (after MANY attempts to discuss what we felt were the issues) to get help. One of the cadets decided to back out, told the Commander our plan, and just like that there was a "moratorium on promotions for SIX months". That cadet was the squadron cadet of the year though...

Of course in the end the commander WAS replaced, and from what I learned later on in my CAP career wasn't all that liked by other SMs as well, so I suppose we did have at least SOME legitimate issues. But that didn't stop him from slowing down our promotions (basically until the new commander stepped up), and letting a number of us get the "Chief for Life" attitude (at least for a while). I'm just about SURE that he prevented a number of cadets from reaching for the Spaatz, and at least five newer cadets from even getting their Wright Brothers.

But we were young cadets (14/15), and pretty much EVERYTHING we knew about the program came from self-study and encampment experiences. We certainly didn't think to go to the Group Commander after our self-styled "coup" failed - or anyone else.

So lay off the cadet for trying to get some justice for himself. Maybe not the greatest move, but he did what he felt he needed to do. If it does bite him in the ass at that unit, well that's the life lesson, BUT he does deserve to be treated with respect, even if he was wrong in some part of his actions.

In fact, the actions of the commander after the fact? I would CALL/EMAIL/WRITE the IG that same night. IF his parent was present for even a part of that type of treatment? As CAP I would be shaking in my boots. We don't get nearly enough good publicity, but if someone wanted to, we could get PLENTY of bad publicity.

[Eclipse]

Based on all of your posts here on Cap Talk I get the impression you fancy yourself quite the barracks room lawyer and smarter than the avg. bear and combined that comes across as arrogance.  Going to the Wing CC over a wardrobe issue!  Give me a break.  I think most of your problems are of your own making.  Stop trying to show everyone how smart you think your are.  And remember there are always two sides to every story and we are only hearing yours.

+1

[Major Lord]

I don't think its ever wrong for a Cadet, or anyone else, to report an incident or situation that creates a potential threat to a Member. That being said, taking the opportunity to go to the Wing Commander  in circumstances other than exigent, is stepping on your male anatomy just a bit. Whats done is done. The WC can't ignore it, but you went out of channels when proper channels were available, so be prepared to expect the consequences. I actually like that you are standing up for principals, and that you don't back down just because some Seniors tell you to shut your trap. I regret that you chose to act outside the chain, but it's your judgment call to make about a safety and Cadet Protection issues, and although it would have been better for you to sit on your hands for a day or two and wait until the IG returns your phone call. ( By the way, you can contact I.G's  "upstream" if you can't reach your own, or a Chaplain, who I promise you will not just try to "manage" you) I think you need  to examine whether this is the hill you want to die on. There is a proper way to do this, but sometimes situations force our hand. I actually had to physically bar an Ex-member from entering our Squadron, even after the Wing Commander personally ordered my Commander and I to admit him.....Member who threaten to harm children, and appear to have the actual intent to do so in my opinion, constitutes exigent circumstances. I was aware that I could have been signing my own CAP death warrant at the time, but as long as I have people in my care, they stay that way until they are no longer mine to care for.

Should you quit CAP? Sweet Mother of Buddha no! You handled a situation to the best of your ability and competence, and  you should be prepared to accept the consequences, even if that means eating some crow ( I suggest Garlic Butter or Deep fried in Bisquick, tastes just like spotted owl!) Integrity is doing the right thing even if you know in advance its going to cost you dearly. Has anyone ever explained to you that our own beloved Billy Mitchell ( May he live forever in the Halls of Valhalla!) Was Court Martialed and fed to the dogs? So if you wuss out, we will know that the problem here was you, not CAP. Suck it up soldier! Have some mercy on your poor old Squadron Commander, who may have fallen in with a bad lot and likes to wear french headgear.

Major Lord

[bflynn]

Bflynn, I wouldn't believe myself if I wasn't there. If someone told me these stories, I would doubt them. That said, the point of my posting this was to get feedback, which is what I need. Be cynical, but accept the story on a hypothetical level and respond appropriately. It seriously is a drama filled saga, though.

The drama was of your creation. 

I said in the beginning - you can't pick a fight with your boss and expect to win.  I hope you've learned that.  Even if you win, you've lost.

You follow the CoC.  When you do not, people get upset.  When people get upset they say and do things that they don't normally do and that they don't normally mean.  They say and do things that cause grief.  I hope you've learned that.

C&C aren't just for keeping a sharp uniform and saluting - they are part of a model of discipline that you use to interact so that everyone can interact according to a set of rules.  You restrain yourself when dealing with superiors so that you don't step on someone's toes.

Did everyone behave spot on in this?  No, it doesn't sound like it.  But when there is a problem, start with your own pair of boots and draw progressively larger circles until you find the cause...in other words, start by assuming the cause of the problem lies with yourself and then work outward.

Your path forward - apologize to a number of people, starting with the squadron commander.  Recognize that an apology is an admission of wrong.  You can PM me and email me privately if you'd like a formal structure to follow.  In my experience, apologies do wonders to heal things.  There's no forgetting, there's no undoing it, but at least you can admit that you made a mistake.

Once you do that, a lot of the stress, a lot of the drama goes away. 

When I was 16, I quit playing on the HS soccer team over a stupid argument with the coach and it has had an ongoing impact for me.  I was young and dumb and I made a mistake.  Don't make the same mistake. 

[Perez]

I've been in a very similar situation in the past. As others have said, make every effort that you can to deal with this through the right channels, and remember that you are going to have to make the choices you think are right, regardless of other people's opinions. Just PLEASE don't quit CAP! You said your goal was to earn the Spaatz award? How bad do you want it? Remove yourself from a bad situation if you have to, but don't let one person be the reason that you decide to quit. Best of luck!

[Майор Хаткевич]

snip

That's rubbish. This isn't over the dumb pancake hats,  this is regarding the behavior of SMs, the Squadron Commander included at this point.

The cadet can be the scum of the earth, but until he is a non-member I would expect every cadet and SM (Squadron Commander included) to treat them with respect. That has not happened. Quite honestly if the Squadron Commander responded as outlined then maybe the Wing Commander looking into this will do good not just for EP but for all other Cadets and most likely most SMs as well.

[bflynn]

snip

That's rubbish. This isn't over the dumb pancake hats,  this is regarding the behavior of SMs, the Squadron Commander included at this point.

The cadet can be the scum of the earth, but until he is a non-member I would expect every cadet and SM (Squadron Commander included) to treat them with respect. That has not happened. Quite honestly if the Squadron Commander responded as outlined then maybe the Wing Commander looking into this will do good not just for EP but for all other Cadets and most likely most SMs as well.

I'm sorry, but did I say something that you viewed as non-respectful?  I promise you it isn't there.

At this point I'm talking about healing.  However it got to where it is, there was wrong on both sides.  You can't force someone else to apologize, but you can diffuse the tension by doing it yourself.

I think every SM recognizes this - probably every one of us did or wanted to do something similar when we were young.  We've been there, we know how it is.  We can forgive it, but only if there is a genuine desire to be forgiven. 

In general, it's better to take a deep breadth and just admit that you've messed up, even if you're not the single source of failure.

At this point, it isn't about rag hats, mistakes, people's feelings or even the CoC.  It's about repairing relationships.

Extremepredjudice - my offer to help still stands.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I was talking about how the SMs in the situation acted, not your post bflynn.