"Dressed For Success - Kitting for recruits" RAAF

[FARRIER]

http://youtu.be/-XPT3C8sivc

Watch this with an open mind. I think it perfectly explains the uniform, such things as pride, professionalism, identification, etc.

As an example, when I worked for Evergreen International Airlines as an Aircraft Dispatcher/Operations Manager, we had a specific dress code when jump-seating with other airlines. Since I wasn't a pilot, we still had a specific set of colors and materials we could wear (no dockers, only dress pants). All flight operations personnel with over three years, including dispatch, had flight jackets with the leather wings. With our tie-tac, we were identifiable to flight crews. There was a pride in being identified with a highly professional organization.

I also noticed the same mindset when I interfaced with Alaska Airlines. It wasn't just their flight and cabin crews, but also their station/ground personnel. Their uniforms provided them an identity, a proud and recognizable one. Just my observation.

And that's the point I would like everyone to view the video from.

Respectfully,

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The Royal Australian Air Force are noted for professionalism all-round...their units that served in Korea and Vietnam were also awarded U.S. Presidential Unit Citations.

They do take pride in their uniform; and it's really d*s*i*c*i*e from their Commonwealth counterparts in that it's midnight blue instead of RAF blue-grey.

Of course, you'll likely get someone reminding you "they're military...we're not."  Well, their version of CAP (RAAF Cadets) wear the same uniform, with very little alteration.

Your airline example is a good one...I've often advocated a CAP-d*s*i*c*i*e uniform based on that of the airlines rather than the current mish-mash of IACE blazer/Confederate grey/white.

With the "almost anything goes" versions of the G/W, polo shirt, etc. it's easy to wear it slovenly, because a good chunk (not all) of our membership buy it because it's not subject to the strictures of the AF-type uniform.  As long as it's a white shirt and grey trousers, all you have to do is stick your rank slides and nameplate on it, et voila.

I've seen the AF-type worn badly too, but not as much as I used to...the members who would be prone to do that and get called on it now just do the G/W because they're very unlikely to get called on it.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

A professional appearance is important for any organization, whether they are military based or not. A professional appearance requires a pride in what you are wearing as well, it is not just the clothes you are wearing, but how you are wearing them and whether or not they give you a feeling of pride. The issue I think with some that wear the corporate uniforms sloppily is that the uniforms themselves are not something that really shows and demands pride.

To me there is no jacket that has as much pride sewn into it and forced upon the wearer than the old four square pockets. IMHO nothing has a more professional appearance for a uniform than that. It almost DEMANDED respect and pride, and if the Army were to veer away from that jacket style they would loose a lot of pride in their uniforms.

As a cadet back before this new style jacket I wore and loved and had so much pride in the uniform because of how strong it looked and how mug pride it demanded I have in it, and while I am still very proud of the uniform I wear now, because of the cut and style of it, I don't think I will ever be as proud of our current jacket as I was of the old style.

But even with the pride I have in the current jacket (which mind you really is a lot!!!) I don think I would ever be able to be anywhere near as proud wearing the corporate versions, simply because it really is not actually uniform, it doesn't require a certain shir and fabric, nor pant fabric or color, nor the right kind of shoe, there is no hat to top it off, and it just cuts the pride and meaning of the uniform.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I preferred the old "Tony Nelson" jacket too.   I still have one hanging in my closet.

I have seen the grey/white combo worn well, with nice, pressed trousers and shirt, and all appurtenances in place.  Props to that.

However, I do agree with you, that it is not uniform.

To return to the example of the RAAF, they do have a uniform that one can be proud of...derived from the RAF but still recognisably Australian.


Warrant Officer of the Air Force Mark Pentreath, CSM (roughly analogous to our CMSAF)

I know I'll offend some by saying this and I don't mean to, but a $5.00 blazer from a thrift shop, no matter how well it's worn, just doesn't have the same cachet as a sharp-looking uniform (of any branch or nationality).

[bflynn]

I often look at these things and say - yes, I understand what they're saying.  Why does it not get implemented?

Is this a cultural conflict?  Perhaps there are people who want to wear uniforms and be squared away and there are people who just want to volunteer flying skills and serve their community.  Certainly everyone brings different motivations for coming to CAP. 

If the organization wants to filter and only take those willing to have pride and professionalism in a uniform, how many will that be?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I don't think it requires only keeping those who are willing to have pride in a uniform. It is a s simple as phasing out the current regulations about corporate uniforms, and implementing a new uniform that demand pride and respect from the wearer, and a majority of the will correct itself. They always say the the uniform doesn't make the man, but I think it sure does help.

[FARRIER]

I often look at these things and say - yes, I understand what they're saying.  Why does it not get implemented?

Is this a cultural conflict?  Perhaps there are people who want to wear uniforms and be squared away and there are people who just want to volunteer flying skills and serve their community.  Certainly everyone brings different motivations for coming to CAP. 

If the organization wants to filter and only take those willing to have pride and professionalism in a uniform, how many will that be?

If a person doesn't have pride in the uniform of the organization they wear, be it military, airline, or McDonald's, it is a reflection on that person. Since we are a flying organization, it is important that we present a professional appearance to the public. 

[Sapper168]

It seems to me from what ive seen, when it comes to uniforms, that people tend to inject comfort and easiness over anything else
.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I often look at these things and say - yes, I understand what they're saying.  Why does it not get implemented?

Is this a cultural conflict?  Perhaps there are people who want to wear uniforms and be squared away and there are people who just want to volunteer flying skills and serve their community.  Certainly everyone brings different motivations for coming to CAP. 

If the organization wants to filter and only take those willing to have pride and professionalism in a uniform, how many will that be?

If a person doesn't have pride in the uniform of the organization they wear, be it military, airline, or McDonald's, it is a reflection on that person. Since we are a flying organization, it is important that we present a professional appearance to the public.

CAP isn't just a flying organization, we do a lot more than that. There are also much bigger reasons for a professional appearance, like... We represent a part of the USAF family.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

CAP isn't just a flying organization, we do a lot more than that. There are also much bigger reasons for a professional appearance, like... We represent a part of the USAF family.

And, of course, there are those among our membership (and here on CT) who would do away with that if they could.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

CAP isn't just a flying organization, we do a lot more than that. There are also much bigger reasons for a professional appearance, like... We represent a part of the USAF family.

And, of course, there are those among our membership (and here on CT) who would do away with that if they could.

Not me, never. CAP helped raise me as a teenager and helped me become who I am. I learned a lot as a cadet in a very pro military unit, and no not every one was prior military on the senior side. But they knew what CAP is, and it's history, and they were proud of it, and wanted it to continue. As do I.

[abdsp51]

This is an awesome program for anyone who wants to put forth the effort and dedication.  I benefited from the program as a teenager and now it's time to give back.  Appearance is a key aspect in anything and it's something that was driven home when I was an airman working the gates. Many a times I have heard "The first and last impression someone has of the installation is how you conduct yourself and the appearance you present."  A sharp cadet and senior member can work wonders for recruiting and retention.

[FARRIER]

I often look at these things and say - yes, I understand what they're saying.  Why does it not get implemented?

Is this a cultural conflict?  Perhaps there are people who want to wear uniforms and be squared away and there are people who just want to volunteer flying skills and serve their community.  Certainly everyone brings different motivations for coming to CAP. 

If the organization wants to filter and only take those willing to have pride and professionalism in a uniform, how many will that be?

If a person doesn't have pride in the uniform of the organization they wear, be it military, airline, or McDonald's, it is a reflection on that person. Since we are a flying organization, it is important that we present a professional appearance to the public.

CAP isn't just a flying organization, we do a lot more than that. There are also much bigger reasons for a professional appearance, like... We represent a part of the USAF family.

I'm not knocking Cadet programs or Ground Teams. I was referencing my experience from my aviation days, on the passenger side of the business. There was a pilot who wore a ball-cap (in the cockpit) to keep the sun out of his eyes. A few passengers caught site of it, and reported him to the station personnel, questioning his abilities. No joke. Apologies if I was misunderstood.

[ProdigalJim]

Just an observation on the importance of appearance in non-military settings:

My third son just graduated from the Bachelor's program at the Culinary Institute of America. They call it the Harvard of Food, and with good reason. Lots of really big-time chefs came from there and it's the oldest residential culinary college in the U.S. (hence, espirit de corps).

The kids there go through a pretty demanding year-round program that culminates in a four-year degree. When they are in kitchen classes (the first two years) they must wear their chef whites, and they must be gleaming white and starched. Their tocque has to be on. Their neckerchief has to be clean, tied properly, etc. Their side towels and apron need to be bright white and starched. They get inspected at the beginning of each class, and they lose points, daily, on dress code infractions. You can, and many do, flunk a class for losing too many dress code points, and you have to go back and repeat the class. And because the program is sequential, rather than simultaneous, it delays your graduation date.

Once you're in the second half of the program, which is less about cooking and more about management and finance and running a restaurant, the dress code is business casual, no jeans, shirts must have collars. For college students. In a grueling, but non-military, setting.

And you know what? CIA grads get hired at a better rate than others. They lead in the industry. My son has already worked in some four- and five-star places. They set a tone of professionalism and discipline that makes them leaders. Most of the successful CIA students will tell you the attention to detail that was instilled carried over into other areas.