Your Shipment of Vanguard Fail has been delayed...

[Pylon]

So I needed a replace a few uniform items before a PD course on the weekend of November 20th.   So in the early afternoon of November 5th, I place an order with The Hock for a flight cap, slingshots, blues belt, and a few other small items.  Because frankly, the cost of those items from the Hock is substantially lower than Vanguard.  Since the Hock also offers Free Shipping, it doesn't cost me extra to split up the order and get the cheaper items from him. 


I also place an order with Vanguard for 1 senior member flight cap device, which is showing on the site as "In Stock" and is probably a fairly common item.


So here's what happens next:
Nov 5: (2:20pm) Orders with Vanguard and The Hock placed.
Nov 6: In the afternoon, I am extremely surprised to find my entire Hock order in my mailbox.  Uhm...  Less than 24 hours later.  Extremely surprised.  Granted, I'm in the same geographic region, but that means the order was picked, packed, and shipped within hours.  Bravo zulu.
Nov 12: (1pm)  I realize my Vanguard order hasn't arrived yet.  I check online.  Still shows as "Processing". Fail 1  *grumble* 
Nov 12: (1:15pm) On the Vanguard homepage, I see the bright green "Chat Online" button is lit up, indicating I can chat with a customer service person online.  I click and a chat window opens up and prompts me to type in all my details and my question, which I do.  After waiting about a minute or two, I get a window that says "LIVE CHAT!  Department is unavailable.  Leave a message."   Fail 2.
Nov 12: (3pm) A little later, I find the time to call Vanguard.  I call, ask about my order status, am transferred and a lady looks up my account.  Yup, order still hasn't shipped and won't this week either.  For an in-stock item.  Here's the explanation I get:


VG:  Well, you placed the order after business hours on Friday so it didn't get started until Monday.... and...
Me:  [interrupts]  Uh, no I didn't.  I have the confirmation email right here with a timestamp that says 2:20pm.  And we're in the same time zone.
VG:  Well, yeah.  We don't download orders from the site in the afternoon on Fridays because we leave early.  So if it wasn't in the morning, it won't get downloaded until sometime Monday.
Me:  Helpful to know.  But still, if you downloaded it first thing Monday, why by the end of the entire week is the order still not ready to be shipped for a single-item that is reported to be in stock?   
VG:  We need at least 7 full business days to ship out orders.
Me:  ....
VG:  Anything else I can do for you? 
Me:  .... Fail 3.




I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that taking an online order for something simple, in stock, requiring no customization, and not requiring any special shipping or packaging should take --FOR ANY COMPANY-- at most, maybe 3 business days. 


I can only think of two things that could be causing this, and both of them point to management failures:
1.  The company could be so backed up with orders that they're having a hard time keeping up with the volume, and that's why it's taking 7+ business days just to ship.  If that's the case, they planned poorly for sales projections and are failing to hire additional help (permanent or temps) to meet the sales volume appropriately.


2.  The company's order fulfillment procedure is so incredibly inefficient that it literally takes them 7+ business days to pick, pack, and ship simple in-stock items.  If this is the case, they are grossly mismanaged and need to get some immediate outside help in streamlining their business model.  Not only are they wasting their customer's time and patience, but if #2 is the case, they're likely also wasting all sorts of money on overhead due to inefficiency.


In either case, I'm disappointed.

[Spaceman3750]

It just seems so darn hit and miss with them. You have a very simple order that should have shipped right away that hasn't even shipped yet, a week later. I have had slightly more complex orders that have taken less than 7 days to my doorstep. I don't understand why.

[NIN]

Before I was laid off, I worked at  a distribution company. We had about 22,000 SKUs in our warehouse, ranging from stuff that got ordered every day to stuff that got orderd 3x per year.   And I'm talking things with lot numbers and expiration dates.

We were able to easily (VERY easily) take any order that came in before 6:30 pm and have it out the door _that_night_ with very, very little back order deferrals.  And our guarantee to our customer was that if you ordered it on Monday, you'd have it by Wednesday.  Everywhere.

I cannot believe that Vanguard can't do the same.   There's no issue with stock expiring (thus necessitating complex demand/fill formulas in their ERP), and its *one* friggin' item.

You're right Mike: You've got a box full of fail.

[jimmydeanno]

I ordered a new IPod Nano for my wife a few months ago, when the new touchscreen version came out.  Typically, Apple stocks about 7 days worth of inventory in warehouses, etc.  They had to manufacture it, did some nifty laser engraving on it (for free), and shipped it from who knows where and I had it in 4 days.

Order fulfillment greatly depends on the business model, MRP system, and many times - the employees.  "oh, we leave early on Friday" communicated to the customer is indicative of a pretty lax work environment that doesn't enforce normal work behavior expectations on its employees.

I haven't had any problems with Vanguard in a few years, so I can't comment on poor service, just good service that I've received in the past.

[tmurphy]

I remember having to play phone tag for like a week just so they could get my last name for my BDU name tapes, and then a few more days for them to actually process the order...

[flyboy53]

Isn't that just great.

We destroy a CAP member's business for the sake of NHQ negotiating a contract that gives them a cut of the proceeds. We lose someone completely and totally responsive to our needs and gain a uniform/insignia manufacturer who cares so little about our business that its reflective in their very poor customer service.

[Senior]

It is indicative of a failure at CAP HQ and at Vanguard.
In this day and age of global shipping even by the smallest companies
there is no excuse for needing a 7 day lead on in stock items. 
O wait a minute "we leave early on Friday" :clap: thanks Vanguard!

[Ned]

Proving once again the value of fora like here and CS,

I just sat down and showed this thread to Mr. Charles Bostwick, Vanguard's Director of CAP sales.  His full time job is to direct the CAP Team at VG.

His response was "The response that the customer got from Customer Service was not right.  I will personally take care of correcting that situation."

As it turns out, VG processes over 250 CAP orders a day.  Sometimes more.  The volume has increased significantly over the past year, and they recently installed a new carousel system to improve order processing.  They had a few software glitches in the upgrade that allowed some orders to be coded incorrectly as "in process" when they were not.  Mr.  Bostwick thinks that is the most likely reason for the situation described above, and he will immediately make a few calls to sort it out.

Mr. Bostwick's (and the rest of the CAP Team's) entire job is providing timely services to our members.  He takes his job very seriously.

He specifically asks any member experiencing problems with their orders to call him personally so he can fix the problem.

His contact info:

Mr. Charles Bostwick
(800) 221-1264
Fax (757) 857-1632

email: bostwick@vanguardmil.com

He told me that he reviews CT from time to time.  I encouraged him and the VG Customer service manager, Ms. Sharell Rutherford, to join and receive unvarnished members' views on VG. 

Treat them kindly, please.


Ned Lee

[RADIOMAN015]

Proving once again the value of fora like here and CS,

I just sat down and showed this thread to Mr. Charles Bostwick, Vanguard's Director of CAP sales.  His full time job is to direct the CAP Team at VG.

His response was "The response that the customer got from Customer Service was not right.  I will personally take care of correcting that situation."

As it turns out, VG processes over 250 CAP orders a day.  Sometimes more.  The volume has increased significantly over the past year, and they recently installed a new carousel system to improve order processing.  They had a few software glitches in the upgrade that allowed some orders to be coded incorrectly as "in process" when they were not.  Mr.  Bostwick thinks that is the most likely reason for the situation described above, and he will immediately make a few calls to sort it out.

Mr. Bostwick's (and the rest of the CAP Team's) entire job is providing timely services to our members.  He takes his job very seriously.

He specifically asks any member experiencing problems with their orders to call him personally so he can fix the problem.

He told me that he reviews CT from time to time.  I encouraged him and the VG Customer service manager, Ms. Sharell Rutherford, to join and receive unvarnished members' views on VG. 

Looks like the comment above about substantial increases in the last year validates the reason why the Hock Shop was closed down. (he had the pricing right and the service was super!!!)

Frankly if Vanguard is reading this thread as a consumer I'm really not interested in your computer problems, staffing, etc, etc, etc,

What I expect is SERVICE -- To me that means on a stock order received on Monday thru Thursday that order should be out by the door shipped by the close of business the VERY NEXT DAY.   EVERY other mail order for profit business I deal with is able to do this, why would I expect anything different from your firm  

As far as special orders go, I see no reason why that can be accomplished in 5 working days from the receipt of the order.

RM

[Ned]

What I expect is SERVICE -- To me that means on a stock order received on Monday thru Thursday that order should be out by the door shipped by the close of business the VERY NEXT DAY.     

And Vanguard  agrees with you.  Their standards call for 1 day turnaround on their in-stock orders.  They process orders twice a day, M-F.

And they appear to be successful in meeting their standards in a large majority of their orders.

But no business comprised of humans will ever attain perfection.

We leave that to anonymous experts on the internets.

Ned Lee

[ltcmark]

Not only is the service important, but the quality has to be there also.   

[Ozzy]

Quality of the item or service?

I haven't had much problems when ordering from Vanguard over the past four years. Once or twice I've had a wrong item sent, like a 1LT gortex insignia vs a C/1Lt gortex insignia, but they fixed it promptly.

And while sometimes the order took longer then theHock, the items from Vanguard are better then what I've ordered from theHock. And yes, I've ordered plenty of times from both, I was the person that ordered items for other cadets AND senior members.

[RADIOMAN015]

What I expect is SERVICE -- To me that means on a stock order received on Monday thru Thursday that order should be out by the door shipped by the close of business the VERY NEXT DAY.     

And Vanguard  agrees with you.  Their standards call for 1 day turnaround on their in-stock orders.  They process orders twice a day, M-F.

And they appear to be successful in meeting their standards in a large majority of their orders.

But no business comprised of humans will ever attain perfection.

We leave that to anonymous experts on the internets.

Ned Lee

It's good to know that Vanguard actually has a standard that they want to meet.   Hopefuly they have the quality controls in place to identify the "pickers" that make the errors and correct the errors prior to shipment to the customer.
   
I agree with you that no organization (including volunteers in the Civil Air Patrol), comprised of humans will ever attain perfection (e.g. that why member's in CAP have "accidents").

RM   

[Major Carrales]

Read this well all of you and act in accordance to your whims.

A friend of mine recently returned from deployment, she had medical issues as the result of her service overseas and was making the transition to the VA.  She had all sorts of problems getting this to happen.  First, she had to take time to go to to the VA office to process forms et al and was told, when she got there, she would have to come back because they tended to leave early and didn't process paperwork after a certain hour. Second, it took her paperwork, after processing, months to matriculate.

I have noticed this effect myself several places.  People leaving early, cultures of lax behavior at work and poor customer service.  When people can't get a simple burger (bun, cheese, patty other bun) correct, and I am forced to accept it out of some type of "civility;" I think the world is way off track.

In "killing" Tom's efforts, which I consider (since he was in business since at least the 1960s providing CAP Officers and Cadets with necessary items  where the Bookstore and , later, CAPMART were of EPIC FAIL status) the ultimate expression of "putting the CART before the HORSE" I have seem in recent years.

I have to admit I am quite put off by what happened to the HOCK, but that aside, if CAPNHQ is going to take such actions and restrict all CAP purchases to VANGUARD, I think we have a duty to hold them to the fire.

I think we should be the ultimate CONSUMER and exercise our rights of petition and assembly to almost the level of bother when these things happen.    Flood CAPNHQ with letters, not e-mails, and let VANGAURD know, via mail, that we demand EXCELLENCE from people we are forced to deal with.

When the number of "isolated incidents" becomes the norm, we have a problem.  Once the "isolated incidents" are less and less, then the letters will follow suit.  This type of consumer "feedback" is a part of the capitalist system, lets take it back.

Until we take back "customer service" they (those of horrible customer service) will continue to get away with their incompetence.

[MICT1362]

 :clap:Agreed!:clap:

[bosshawk]

Sparky: I certainly concur, but how many people on this blog have ever written a letter to National?  You could likely count them on one hand and have vacant fingers.  I certainly haven't, but I will before long.  You are correct:   NO EMAILS, they are too easy to delete.

[Major Carrales]

Sparky: I certainly concur, but how many people on this blog have ever written a letter to National?  You could likely count them on one hand and have vacant fingers.  I certainly haven't, but I will before long.  You are correct:   NO EMAILS, they are too easy to delete.

You are correct, there has to be a physical "mail bag" to show there is a "petition." 

I am wondering which CAPTALKERs will disagree with this approach and why?  There is nothing wrong with demanding EXCELLENCE, hummmm...is that not one of our CORE VALUES?  I think we should demand EXCELLENCE of VANGUARD and hold them to their obligations as we tend to hold our membership responsible for following CAP policy.

[FARRIER]

I've communicated with Mr. Bostwick when there have beem problems. I would contact him first before taking up the pitchforks.

[Major Carrales]

I've communicated with Mr. Bostwick when there have been problems. I would contact him first before taking up the pitchforks.

You are one of many who has claimed to have done this, yet the problems persist.

In any case, since when is appealing to a commissar the standard operating procedure for this sort of thing.  I think the existence of said letters sends a concrete message to leadership.  Additionally, said letters will stop when the poor service stops and the excellence begins.

[Thrashed]

I ordered uniform stuff for the NER conference a month ago.  The conference ended today.  I'm still waiting for my order!