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"Minority" majority

Started by RiverAux, March 12, 2010, 03:59:51 AM

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OldSalt

#40
Quote from: CyBorg on March 16, 2010, 02:47:57 PM
In a word: politics.

I agree fully with you about retaining the CSU with General Courter's interim modifications.  I've worn it, and it looks good, much better than the atrocious (in my opinion) grey pants.

You hit it right on the head here. Politics. I think that a lot of members are still living in the past in terms of the overall corporate makeup of CAP. The "good ole' boy way" of doing business was done away with by Congress. Every member should make themselves familiar with the federal laws that keep CAP in existence, that being 10 USC, Chapter 909, and 36 USC, Chapter 403.

No one now can point the finger at either the AF or CAP for failure to effectively address any issue within CAP. According to Federal Law, both the AF and CAP have equal representation on the Board of Governors and the BOG is the sole governing body over CAP - period. The new uniform committee should be an organ of the BOG alone and the BOG should take the uniform committee's recommendations to heart and make some command decisions. No more passing the buck or the blame for past mistakes or offenses.

If an AF rep doesn't like the outcome, then they should resign or ask for a transfer, and the same goes for any CAP rep. It's time to open the doors and let some fresh air into the smoke-filled rooms of CAP debate.

The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: NewbieOnTheLoose on March 16, 2010, 09:29:04 PM
It's time to open the doors and let some fresh air into the smoke-filled rooms of CAP debate.

You're right, of course.

Please let me know when that happens. ???
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

OldSalt

Quote from: CyBorg on March 16, 2010, 09:48:51 PM

You're right, of course.

Please let me know when that happens. ???

I think there is an opening on the Board of Governors right now for any CAP member at large who really wants to take their opinion to the top and provide the fresh air we're all looking for.  ;D  If interested see this link: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/BOGpackageDec09EXFinal_300EF112A5C09.pdf

Of course, I would volunteer, but I think I'd be left on the ramp after my first meeting.  :o

Ned

Quote from: NewbieOnTheLoose on March 16, 2010, 09:29:04 PM
If an AF rep doesn't like the outcome, then they should resign or ask for a transfer, and the same goes for any CAP rep. It's time to open the doors and let some fresh air into the smoke-filled rooms of CAP debate.

Non-concur.

The BoG cannot force the AF to approve or not approve CAP uniforms that require AF approval.  The BoG simply has no authority to change AFIs or affect the AF in any way.  Their sole authority is over CAP, Inc.  And in that arena they have complete control.

I suspect that the AF reps are detailed assignment by SecAF, which means that they cannot simply resign if things don't go their way. 

Finally, CAP really can't get much more public on their decision making than we currently are.  Meetings of the NB and NEC are web-cast, for Goodness sakes.   Any member has a right to attend the meetings, however both the NB and NEC take the position that they can meet briefly in executive session to discuss personnel matters and litigation.

Of course there are politics in CAP.  Because our senior leadership is elected, that seems inevitable.  There are politics in every other organzation on the planet involving two or more people.  "Politcs", per se, is not evil.  Indeed, that is how the public & private business of this country gets done.

But I agree that it is possible to have too much of a good thing, and clearly CAP has had its share of destructive, petty politics.

But if you can invent a way to reliably separate the Good Politics (discussion, pursuasion, compromise, personal leadership) from the Bad Politics (back-biting, strong-arming, gossip, and innuendo) please let us know so that we can elect you to public office.   8)

Ned Lee
(Elected Official)

Chappie

An overlooked item.  The USAF has revised it fitness program.  Check out:
http://www.446aw.afrc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123163354

If we are talking about a 39" (or less) waist required for all USAF personnel...wonder what CAP members are going to do when they can't buy USAF-style uniform pants???  Just thinking ahead...hmmm maybe Vanguard can make bigger sizes.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Eclipse

Quote from: Chappie on March 16, 2010, 11:56:37 PM
An overlooked item.  The USAF has revised it fitness program.  Check out:
http://www.446aw.afrc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123163354

If we are talking about a 39" (or less) waist required for all USAF personnel...wonder what CAP members are going to do when they can't buy USAF-style uniform pants???  Just thinking ahead...hmmm maybe Vanguard can make bigger sizes.

They already do for the CSU.

"That Others May Zoom"

davidsinn

Quote from: Eclipse on March 17, 2010, 12:24:43 AM
Quote from: Chappie on March 16, 2010, 11:56:37 PM
An overlooked item.  The USAF has revised it fitness program.  Check out:
http://www.446aw.afrc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123163354

If we are talking about a 39" (or less) waist required for all USAF personnel...wonder what CAP members are going to do when they can't buy USAF-style uniform pants???  Just thinking ahead...hmmm maybe Vanguard can make bigger sizes.

54" I have seen them with my own eyes.

They already do for the CSU.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

Chappie

Quote from: Eclipse on March 17, 2010, 12:24:43 AM
Quote from: Chappie on March 16, 2010, 11:56:37 PM
An overlooked item.  The USAF has revised it fitness program.  Check out:
http://www.446aw.afrc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123163354

If we are talking about a 39" (or less) waist required for all USAF personnel...wonder what CAP members are going to do when they can't buy USAF-style uniform pants???  Just thinking ahead...hmmm maybe Vanguard can make bigger sizes.

They already do for the CSU.

But are they the same shade of blue for the USAF-style jacket?  If not, they can carve out a market :)
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

OldSalt

Quote from: Ned on March 16, 2010, 11:32:03 PM

Non-concur.

The BoG cannot force the AF to approve or not approve CAP uniforms that require AF approval.  The BoG simply has no authority to change AFIs or affect the AF in any way.  Their sole authority is over CAP, Inc.  And in that arena they have complete control.

Thanks Ned for your well reasoned post. I tend to get a bit passionate at times in my writing  ;)

I agree 100% with what you are saying here; the only caveat being that I believe that if the AF members of the CAP BOG went back to the AF with a unanimous ruling from the BOG - I think the AF would have a very hard time shrugging it off without some very good explanation since they are responsible for half of the BOG votes.

We do need to remember that the federal laws also state that the AF has limited control over CAP - which I believe (and please correct me if I'm incorrect here) is specifically spelled out to mean only under the conditions when CAP is operating under AFAMS or where the AF has budgetary oversight.

If it hasn't come across yet in my posts, let me state clearly that in pointing all of this out, I am not in favor, nor am I attempting to pursue, separating us from the AF. My goal here is merely to cut through the "myth and legend" of CAPs governance structure in the hopes of promoting greater cooperation between the main stakeholders and to help us all to move forward constructively and let the past "mistakes or errors" go.

I believe Congress put the BOG in place and made the AF and CAP equal partners in the overall governance specifically in the hopes that we would all stop the negative fingerpointing and legislative hand-wringing.

My point in saying that people should resign or move on if they cannot work within this new CAP governance structure is again to point out that since the inception of the BOG, the old way of doing CAP business is done and we need leadership on the BOG that embraces this new culture of renewed and fresh cooperation.



ColonelJack

Quote

I think there is an opening on the Board of Governors right now for any CAP member at large who really wants to take their opinion to the top and provide the fresh air we're all looking for.  ;D  If interested see this link: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/BOGpackageDec09EXFinal_300EF112A5C09.pdf

Of course, I would volunteer, but I think I'd be left on the ramp after my first meeting.  :o

When are they going to announce who's been chosen?  I submitted my paperwork for consideration...

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
Honorary Admiral, Navy of the Republic of Molossia